Abortion: Putting A Face On The Issue

Thanks, Eggy, for showing us all the Big Picture

lol, literally

How many babies did that train wreck kill???

You should only worry about the unborn babies and not anything else, don't you know?

Oh, that's right, let me rephrase the question.

How many unborn babies did that trainwreck kill????

I want to know how many unborn babies THIS trainwreck of a thread killed. :\

You think THIS thread is bad, you should see the one that got locked at 39 pages...

Yep, that one was bad

Yeah. I got called a "SMACKTARD!!!", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Double post...

It means you've been called a retard on smack.

Haha! Well I got called a murderer.

Sweeeeet. Given the source, I'll take it as a compliment.

I think I did too, probably. Around page 15 or so I started to ignore that word.

I thought it quite ironic that those who call themselves "pro-life" were doing most of the name-calling...

I'm not going to take sides, I'm kinda in the middle myself and think *both* of ends of the spectrum are being willfully obtuse.

I must have missed that...

Let's put together a little puzzle of Christian values here...

1. Life is sacred. Abortion is killing.
2. A person should take responsibility for their acts.
3. Women should be protected from harm.

Based on these, I think the only moral thing to do, is, every time an abortion is performed, the FATHER should be sent to jail. Secondly, if he attempts to prevent the mother from seeking proper medical care or an abortion, he should be sent to jail for twice as long, as he is endangering the mother not once but twice.

This is purely a strawman, but really, the idea of putting away the doctor in the case of an abortion is the stupidest part of this whole attempt to legislate morality.

I may be wrong, but I'll guess Christian values would include the woman taking responsibility for her actions as well. In which case the woman would also be jailed.

Honestly, what is the point of going back and forth about this issue? No one is going to change someone else's beliefs about abortion. It is just devolving into the same name calling and rhetoric that always surrounds this topic, and no one arguing about it comes out looking particularly great.

I guess calling people murderers (among other things) doesn't qualify as name-calling... my bad.

This might seem logical, but the approach I'm looking at is how to actually achieve the desired results on all sides.

I started off on this rather facetiously, but think about it. If the father goes to jail...

Women and doctors are still free to make their own judgements concerning the medical health of both mother and child, as well as the life they'd be letting the baby in for.

Women who actually love their partners are highly unlikely to choose abortion as a birth control method.

Any woman who goes through with an abortion is already suffering a number of consequences.

Instead of ignoring the idea, men will be absolutely clamoring for a safe, effective male birth-control pill.

Casual, unprotected sex will drop like a rock once men are made to suffer the consequences of unwanted pregnancy.

With men much more willing to make sure that contraception is being used, both unwanted pregnancies and abortions will also drop like a rock.

IMO, abortion is the "solution" at the end of a chain of unwanted problems. Reducing the number of them calls for changing the conditions under which those problems arise.

There was a reason I haven't injected religion into the equation. Religion is personal, individual, but I feel certain ethics should be universal.

Cory, as I've said before, I'm not interested in one sided answers to this equation. I agree that simply outlawing the procedure will just drive women into situations far more dangerous.

I believe that the answer to this problem is two fold.
1. Make it illegal-this drives the point home that the act is wrong and limits availability.
2. Education, education, education. Better sex education. Better access to contraceptives.

Prostitution. It's their body. Why shouldn't it be legal, too? Suicide? Why do we have laws against that? If your 13yo decided they wanted to end their own lives-would you make sure it was safe and legal? It's their body after all. A little privacy, please.

And I am so sick and tired of this argument of: If you don't have a womb, shut up. Or if you haven't had a child, shut up.

You think that just because I'm a man, that I can't love my unborn child? I was there for every step of the way. Laying on her belly, feeling the baby kick. Don't you dare try to demean that.

Which brings me to another point. Pro-abortionist try to neutralize men in this issue by negating their contribution. Yeah, I'm just the father. Half of that child. Yanno?
But the hyprocisy becomes plain when the tables are turned.

If Jane decides she's not ready for a baby she can go out and abort it with out ever asking John. And if John should open his mouth about the death of his child, a child he was completely prepared to take, then he's told to shut up because he doesn't have a womb. But if John decides he isn't ready to be a father, and Jane wants the kid, it doesn't matter how willing he is to pay for an abortion, Jane can file a paternity suit and hold John financially responsible for that child because, well, it takes two to tango.

In this way the argument is very akin to the drug issue. Do you believe that we should legalize crack because kids are going to do it anyway?

Let's make heroine use safe, legal, and rare. Does that make sense? I mean it's their body. If your 13yo really wants to have morphine, she's gonna find it. Why not just get it for her, teach her how to take it properly?

This is the result of the grey area in which the radical Left lives and I hope it is becoming clearer to everyone else. They live in a world where everything is justifiable and everything is rational. In short they are advocating for anarchy.

Case in point. In California, a state with dozens of abortion clinics, they can't find a doctor to kill a man who confessed to raping, beating, and murdering a 14yo girl.

In fact, when they aren't busy fighting for abortion rights, you'll find most of these same people advocating the end of the death penalty because it's "cruel and unusual".

It's apalling really. In their world, it's perfectly ok to take a 9 month old baby, that could otherwise survive, pull it out of the mother up to the neck, jam a tube into it's skull, suck out the brain, and then throw it away. But we can't kill a man who raped, beat, and murdered a 14yo girl because it's cruel and unusual?

Are you ignorant enough to believe that baby doesn't feel pain? Or do you just not care? Why do convicted murders get the "shadow of a doubt" rule, and innocent babies get saline solution?

And another thing...if you took that same baby 5 seonds later, after the head was out and the cord was cut and did the same thing...it'd be murder. Maybe the reason they don't take the head out, is because they don't want to look into the eyes of the child they are murdering.

This is murder. And murder is not a right. It's a wrong.

Teach your daughters to respect their bodies. Teach your sons to respect your daughters. Teach all your children to take some personal responsibility in their actions.

Pro-abortionists are advocating for everything but personal responsibility. "Well the men need to start using birth control more!" they shout. I'm sorry-did you not realize your partner wasn't sporting a condom when you consented to sex? Was it like: Aw, damn, already said yes, but he doesn't have a condom! Oh, well!"?

If you see your partner isn't wearing a condom you say, "Hey! No condom, no sex!" and I bet he'll be more mindful next time.

-Kiamat Dusk

Yeah, because we all know that two minutes of thrusting and then cumming is equivelant to carrying a baby around in your body for 9 months and then going through 12 hours of labor. Why the nerve!

What you're missing here, is that people like myself who are against abortion view the child as...well...a child. It's an independent 3rd party. You wouldn't advocate the killing of the child after the cord was cut...I think... We just take it back a few months.

That said, I will repeat my statement that I believe that the MAP should be a standard part of every rape kit.

-Kiamat Dusk