Overzealous Security and Rude Landowners

Then blame those who use the ones that do, and those who set them up wrongly, for causing the problem that many of us suffer on a regular basis.

No doubt there are legitimate uses for security systems - however having one "in case someone might happen to wander by my box in the air when I'm not even there" is not, in my book, one of them.

Lewis

SL ISN'T supposed to be like RL. Thats why I can have a floating home above the clouds.

its increible this shop buy all better lands in Second Life in order to sell utra expensive the best place in Second Life. im mad because they buy all new area in the East and them abuse with ultra high price, i recomended for all Citizen in Second Life, Dont Buy nothing from this Company

... except it's "Our world, Our imagination", and if we want SL to be just like RL in designing stuff that reflects what we see out of our window, why is that less valid than your choice to have a floating home?

Lewis

Oh, but Lewis, I have read the thread. I also noticed that in the poll only 22% agree with you.

Instead of ranting at people with security orbs, you should be petitioning Linden Lab to make the Land security actually useful.

So, you send frivolous ARs to waste the Abuse Department's time as some kind of political statement? If a security orb is set to eject or tp home, it is NOT abuse (per Lee and other Lindens), and YOU are abusing resources by sending them.

Be very very thankful I am not the abuse dept manager, Lewis. If you flooded the dept with your ARs to 'make a statement', you'd either be perma-banned, or all of your reports would be filed in the trash, unread.

I *do* sympathize with flyers and explorers. I've flown planes and sailed boats in SL, and I've been pushed and ejected all over the grid. I do not have an answer for this, but removing a land-owner's property rights that they pay for is not the answer. Nor is abusing the AR system an answer.

I also agree that it's just common courtesy that if you are going to have a security orb, you should set it to give people ample warning time to get clear before it Ejects or sends you home.

So... the majority feel it's freedom to explore that's a core part of SL...

As was nicely pointed out (and was never replied to, by the way) it doesn't say anywhere that it's unlimited freedom to explore. You explore privately owned land and the objects thereon at the SOLE DISCRETION of the land owner. If they don't want you on their land, or in the airspace above it, you don't get to go on it.

Meanwhile, as someone who explores a lot... yes, I fly a lot and wander about on the ground a lot... I can safely say that a: there's very very few badly set up security scripts out there, (Translation for those who still don't get it... the claims about how bad it is are wildly exaggerated) b: the use of them is obvious that someone doesn't want visitors, (being social with everyone is such a small part of SL... kinda funny that it should be forced on people) and c: It's none of my damned business what they might be hiding and only a rude and obnoxious person would forego basic manners and then try to get in and/or target them for daring to want some privacy/protection from griefers.Eject throws you halfway across the sim and is part of the land tools...

Meanwhile, you may take your idea about building on the ground only and stuff it. We can build at any height above our land AS IS OUR RIGHT AS THE LANDOWNER and you have no say in the matter.Did it stop them from causing a problem in the first place? Somehow, I doubt it.Did that happen with the person you banned from your land? Obviously not or you'd have had to keep on banning their alts...

The other interesting point here is the systems use a white-list for access, so it makes no difference how many alts they use, they still can't get in... and they do give up very quickly. (usually they don't even bother trying more than once)
When you finally grasp the concept that it's about much much more than "someone stealing your stuff" you might finally understand just why people use security scripts...

Though with the number of times people have tried to educate you on this subject, I don't hold out much hope....

So if the majority of people want to do something it makes it ok? Anything the majority wants is ok and to be in the minority makes you wrong? This is what you are saying right?

No Ranma, I'm saying that the Lindens allow an Eject or TP Home as being "legal", so ARing it is a waste of everyone's time.

But if the majority, and more importanly, the LINDENS, agree on this issue, posting threads about it on a weekly basis accomplishes.... what?

I only AR those security orbs push a resident that is NOT located on their property. Lets say I am walking down the road (Linden Protected Land) and start taking IM's. Not long after get hit but a push attack that crashes my client server. I AR all of those attacks.
Beginning to question about what the majority wants. What if they decide there are not enough subs in the game and decided that certain residents because they are (insert minority group here) have become slaves and will be sold to the highest bidder. Because the majority and the Lindens agree it is correct right?

I didn't read through 20 pages, but I will throw my 2 cents in.

Number 1: People paid for their land, whether it's rented or owned. They have the right to do what they want.

There are plenty of times, I have been in my house, and people just walk in and start using it like it's thier own house. My SL sister had to set her land to group, because she (my sister) walked in on someone who was claiming that my sis's house was HER house, directly to my sisters face. And even wanted her to leave!

Delays aren't always viable because it's still long enough to grief people. Frankly it is. I love to fly around as much as the next av. But the majority of people I want kept away from me, are coming INTO my house.

NO! *Buzz* Locked doors are not the answer. You can be inside Fort Knox, but with the current SL setup, people can cam in, and click sit on anything. This happened to me when I was in my bedroom, in active use (to put it nicely) and I had my blinds drawn. My door gave a locked message, so they took upon themselves to sit click into my house.

Because land is at a premium, we can't just buy 100's of sq. m's of land to put up a no access, and make it far enough away that the house can't be cammed into.

And RL comparisons are silly. In RL, putting up a fence around your home meant keep out and entering a locked home is breaking and entering, both misdemeanors, punishable by fines and/or jail time. SL doesn't not have police, judge or jury, so the alternative to privacy are these bumps and TPers. To put simply, it's just the same if you wanted to trepass in RL, most states allow you to shoot them. Which would TP you home anyways, just cuts out the action of actually doing so.

I'd kill for non phantom prims to be absolutely NON passable by av. Even more so by av AND cam, but it's not happening.

What a novel.

And Ranma, not to pick on you, but that's a silly statement. The majority will NEVER do that, and it's a proven factor. The majority always wins in ANYTHING, because people will do what socially acceptable, whether they agree or not.

That's just a new twist on the old phrase, "If all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?" Well, common sense tells us no, but if there was some stupid mass exodus, there would more than likely be a societal reason and chances are you WOULD jump.

I rolled my eyes at parents who said that phrase, just like you are probably rolling your eyes at me.

ETA: A scenario.

Most residents in SL don't agree with child roleplay. We could vote til we were blue in the face about it's morality. But just because we don't agree with it, the majority would vote to keep it, to keep SL freedoms. Things don't *just* happen, there's always an underlying cause. So just taking and flopping out a statement that so and so majority said so and that's how it is doesn't fit the argument.

That's the beauty of this game, play your SL the way YOU want it, and others can play the way THEY want it.

You build your house on the ground, and if it matters that much, build a big parcel with homes on the ground and don't force it on others who play how THEY want to. Make a walll prim that's transparent on one side, and from your house the picture is a tree lined street with white houses and picket fences.

wouldn't work since sl isn't a democracy, you don't vote for stuffs to be allowed or not

And for my last direct response....

In RL, you aren't a pilot. If you do, you need a flight plan, cleared by the FAA, which bans you from low flying over residential zones. You also need to have a transponder to let the FAA (Lindens by example) know where you are at all times, and you have to wait in line to take off and land. You also need to pay to have your aircraft inspected and insure it's flight ready. Disobeying these laws revokes your permit to fly AT ALL.

Plus you have to pay for fuel each time you fly your aircraft.

So if you want this to be like RL, why don't you send the Lindens your flight plan before you fly, pay them montly fees for fuel and pay them a yearly fee for your inspections and registration of your aircraft..

What's that? You don't want it like RL THAT much? Only enough to make an argument to change SL to how YOU want it? I see now.

ETA: And you can bet your butt you'd get zapped if you flew over restricted zones with no caution, or care.

Oh I know it wouldn't work if we were to actually vote, just taking a common debate on ALL SL websites and applying the logical factor to it.

Well Ranma all I have to say to this is if getting ejected or pushed away is crashing your client then you might want to check your pc out. Because on a daily basis I get pushed,orbited, and ejected by the nastiest scripts in sl(by nasty I mean poorly written). And 99% of the time all it does is create a lil problems with some of my attachments!

No I am not saying your pc is junk just might want to do a lil troubleshooting as to why its so loaded down that a simple sudden graphics change is crashing you. I by no means have a "UBER" gaming machine but when running SL I make sure that if I dont need a certain program, then its not running.

Oh yea I agree with Jennifer on the frivolous AR's being sent to LL about the security scripts bouncing you. I mean really until we here OFFICIAL response from LL again I am going to assume if they start reading the AR and it says blah blah blah's security orb bounced me, they probably laugh and tell the person in the cubicle next to them hey so and so is bitching about a security orb AGAIN! So please stop trying to flood the AR system with them and try to contact the owner of the system and ask them if you can help them set it up correctly!

It is not that bad, you need to file a flightplan only for IFR (instrument flight rules) flights and over certain controlled airspace. You dont need to file a VFR (visual flight rules). Just get in your aircraft and fly!A transponder is only needed to fly over certain types of airspace usually over large airports, certain restrictive airspace etc. About waiting, you fly too much comericial The little airports I use dont have a lot of traffic. If I bought an aircraft would need to get my husband to do the inspection You understand many states and countries require an inspection on your auto or motorcycle and you can be banned from operating it if done in an unlawful manner.



Your car and motorcycle needs fuel too in RL. I am so cheap would run "unleaded" in my rl plane



As I said not all flight require flightplans. There is a lot of open space to make flights. What I would like is to have the no fly zones in second life clearly marked. In that way we can avoid them. There is no easy way to do that now.



I have started making RL flight again and love it RL requires a certain amount of care. It does not matter if you are flying a plane, driving a car or bike or riding a bicycle. There are rules to be observed and penalities if you break them.

So when you come to my land and I manually eject you, that means you are going to AR my land tools?



Why dont you present that same exact question to the numerous club owners that have the entire 50 name list full?



Yes true the real griefers coming back under new alts is the problem but until the land controls allow for a larger list security scripts for the mast part are the best substittution available. The real pity is that you wear your view blinders on a daily basis and refuse to take them off to see somebody elses point of view. I am not saying you have to agree just acknowledge that they might actually have a valid point even tho you dont agree with it!



NOBODY CAN STEAL YOUR STUFF IN GAME RIGHT? Wrong texture theft, build theft, and plain linden theft buy puting up a invisible prim that takes the money, happens everyday! You should know this you have commented on the threads when the people get pisssed and post here!

So you think that residents can push people off of the land around their property? This includes Linden Land?

My PC runs great! Linden Labs does not fully support dual core technology and that could be part of the problem. Dont think anything helps when one gets into the negitive numbers however.

No I dont but thats where you instead of ARing the silly thing, take a different stand and Im the owner and say "Hey can I make a suggestion? Your orb is attacking people not on your land, would you be willing to allow me to help you adjust the settings?"

This happened to me on a island I use to live on. Because of the prim land my orb was hitting the neighbors who had a lil stream in the outer edge of their property that counted as my prim land. Landord and I fixed the prob and everybody was happy!

No IMing these people does no good. Having an out of control person attacking people outside of their land is griefing. I have a security orb and understand how it works. Yes, it is a choice to attack someone outside of your land and not an accident. I will AR these people forever! You have no right to attack someone OUTSIDE of your property. NONE!!

Well ummm reread my post. I believe some people dont realize that if you dont set it to keep people not on my land safe, that is attacks outside of there land. Mind you I did have mine set to protecdt people not on my land but the silly thing not realizing the prim land had it attacking my neighbors! So the problem might not be the foreign land safe button, but more along the lines of the own both pieces of property on both side and the orb is trying to protect both place. Or they just are uninformed on how to set it up. Most of the time I refuse to ask for help until I completely break the damnded thing and need a fix, but then again thats just my male ego kicking in!

Yours is a special case and prim land is different from Linden Land. Sorry I will not beg from landowners the right to walk down a public street.

Interesting...


Now, I want you two to have a nice clean fight...

Your logic is hopelessly flawed, and while I dislike being so pointed, I will add that I feel in this case it should be obvious why. But I'll clarify:

When I orbit a griefer, it's an act of self-defense, a way to end the current attack being made against me so that I can once again function normally in SL. The person I'm attacking is without question a griefer, and I know it because I was attacked by that person specifically before I ever acted in retaliation.

By contrast, your no-warning, invisible-radius, teleport-home-on-contact security orb is not acting in self-defense at all. It doesn't identify an attack, take time to determine whom the attacker is, and then respond in a measured, minimum-necessary-force way to end an ongoing attack. Rather, it just attacks any random, frequently completely innocent and unarmed person who happens along.

A real-world analogy for this would be the difference between an individual or a police officer carrying a firearm for self-defense (and ONLY using it for the same in response to specific, individually identified threats) and someone just placing a bunch of landmines in some random area without even bothering to erect any signs warning possible passersby of the landmines.

In the former case, most will agree that the firearm-carrying individuals are fine as long as they act responsibly. They will very possibly never even use their weapons, and if they do, it will only be against someone who is already an assailant.

In the latter, most will agree that the individual is a psychotic mass murderer and should be locked away for life or possibly just put down like a mad dog. The landmines will very likely kill any number of wholly innocent people and, if they ever do happen to kill anyone who's actually deserving of the attack, it will only be by complete random accident.

See the difference now? I hope?