Privacy Update? Please?

The reason people are complaing is because unlike ICQ where IM is the only form of commuication, SL has both IM (long distance/private) and local chat (nearby/public).

People want to be able to chat openly and publicly in local chat without being bombarded by IMs from all over the world. If the local chat is too distracting you simply go someplace else. You can't hide from IMs, even in Busy mode where they "ding" every few seconds.

IM's sent to an agent in "Unplugged" mode could simply be redirected to their email account as if they were offline. Problem solved.


My proposal is about separating what people can send you dependant on where they are. If they're within drag-and-drop range of you, they can send you an object. Otherwise no.

Besides, how can not allowing an agent to transfer object to another agent via the profile panel be a form of grief? The person attempting to send you an object simply gets a "Sorry, that resident is unplugged" message, not you. Only the person who tries to send knows the attempt failed and no other action is taken. If they have a problem with that, they can always leave you an email.


Fine. I see that as more of a courtesy but if you want to be "Unplugged" from long distance agent events and not let anyone nearby know, so be it.


They most certainly do. They get your voicemail message and an opportunity to leave a message. When IM is disabled via "unplugged" mode, they get a notice of this and their message can be forwarded to your email. Same exact thing.

You have to know the griefer is there to be able to take action. If it was not for my security script never would have seen him! He was standing still just outside of my land. It is my entire point, just how do security scripts dectect residents? Will any new system affect the ability for them to do so?

Why didnt the griefer that was "stalking" me show up on the map?

Exactly. And then you turn down their friendship card and end up looking like a complete ass. At that point, offering to exchange cards is not really an option because you know they just hate your gutts now.

Perhaps some people need more info on this...

World map icons and Mini Map icons will still be visible by everyone.
Your online status on other peoples friends list and the find menu will be changable.
Scanners will still be able to detect your location.
Your avatar will still apear in world with a dot indicator on the map.
Lindens will still see you as online even if you chose to apear as offline.
This wont give you amunity to ban lists or security devices.
You can still do everything you can normally do (accespt and decline things).
You can still be shot at. >.>
You will still get your camping zombie money.
Pigs will fly.

Something tells me your choosing to ignore what we are explaining to you. Read my last post. Nothing will change except your ability to be hidden on the friends list and find menu.

That's not good enough. Once everyone realizes that online status is unreliable, then they're simply going to attempt to IM and send you notecards anyway. Then begins the deluge of "Are you there?!?!" IMs and such. That doesn't solve anything.

Mm. I was in-world earlier today when someone was offering friendship, and one recipient said "sorry, but I don't do that so early in a relationship" and it was perfectly well taken.

I think that if more people said no to such requests and told the person concerned why, it would become a lot more generally acceptable. I'd much prefer to have people hand out cards than mutual friendships, personally, it's only polite.

Then perhaps we need more then just a invisable online status mode. We should take your idea and mine and put them together. Have 2 new status functions.

BUSY: what busy is now.
UNPLUGED: A Little less silent (gives you local chat).
Invisable: Pretends your account is offline but realy isnt.

I had a encounter today using my alt that doesnt accept friendships. Someone came by me and did it anyway. I went "Merf???" and he said "pls let me add u?" so i let him. then when he left i removed it.

It's a smart policy and one I follow as well. Best to let experience decide whether someone deserves the privilage of being on your friends list. Besides, it's a heck of lot easier to tell someone you just met you prefer to wait than to have to tell a total brain-case who thinks thier your best friend two months later to stop bugging you.

Perhaps they were griefing you from a scripted object ... and not actually present.

With "Stealth" (or HAVEN, yay to archaic mud terminology! It would only be fair that the unseen person also not be able to see anyone else.

Think of it as being phase shifted out of this dimension... able to build/script/tinker/whatever but undetected by mortal eyes... and unable to see people nearby too, and because it is exploitable, it should only be effective over the land that the player owns or is a group owner of.

If your security scripts are targeting people on their own land... they're behaving inappropriately.

I'll exchange cards with just about anyone... if they abuse the ability to locate me I cancel it. I've cancelled very few. I DO, however, keep the friend (dis)connect messages disabled, it'd be absurdly annoying otherwise. I just keep a small window with the folder of my favorite cards open to track the people I keep an eye out for.

I was going to pick up that beach-ball but instead it suddenly started floating away! I was going to use that vendor but the buttons are being pressed by themselves!

Allow blind ghosts to inhabit Second Life? That idea is not just illogical, it's down right creepy.

My security scripts tracks residents up to its limit of 100 meters is a Psyke's Home security system.. It only goes after TARGETED residents on my own property and it is set with foreign land safe on. Thus there is no violation of the TOS. Linden input requested if mistaken.

How can I prevent people from using a scripted object? If I turn off "outside scripts" none of my bought scripts work. It is really not a option. You want residents to be invisbile to others? I would not stand a chance against griefers. I would have to give up my land. It would be pointless to keep it.

I like your speech "undetected by mortal eyes". I have been correct all along! That is very arogrant and can see why you want stealth. The "creative" ones need not be bothered or seen by the unproductive leach residents.

Yes



This is a very good point that I have overlooked. It has only happened to me a few times. Yes I can see your true concern for the first time. You hit the nail on the head as one of my cousins always says.



I dont think most people have a problem with this as long as a "busy" message is sent.




you are getting overwhelmed by returned objects?



I am referring to being off the map. If you can come up to the edge of my property or on my property you have the potential of becoming a griefer.




I think certain residents want to have it both ways. Not having to take IM's (a lot from customers) and the ability to lie about their status online. It is a form of deceit and that becomes habit forming.

Please read what I have said. What is the full effect of doing this? It would be better to just do away with these functions that what you want. I am not convience that residents could not get around being detected by other residents when "trespassing" on others land.

Yes.

There is a good reason why Argent... that I have absolutely no clue how to do that, or any idea what that last line means! Remember, the world is scriptable, but some of us don't know the first thing about scripting!

And what about for dealing with more than one person? They all have to go around wearing another HUD? And then another HUD for another person? Just in case. And once they have it, you have no control. If they wear it, they can see you online. That's nowhere near a choice for you.

Is that correct?

Please read the answers many people have given your questions, and read the actual words.



Do the above, and your questions will be answered.



Once again, doing the above will answer your questions.

No, Scripts owned by the land owner work on no outside script land. If the land is group owned though, the script has to be owned by the group to work.

1) no 'archived' im retrieval, or delivery.

If i do not answer an IM *RIGHT WHEN IT COMES IN*, or the next time i log in, *POOF* its gone forever.

What this means practically.. is i cannot do *ANYTHING* but answer all of my incoming IM's to ensure that they all do get responses. This is especially killer on my eltee Altman alt, where even 2-3 days of failing to log in means that messages will be 'delivery failed' after whatever pathetically small number that takes (i think 32 but it could be 64, either way, about 1-2 days tops for me)

I understand forewarding to email, and i use it *EXTENSIVELY* but i can't foreward people avatar parts, or notecards in email, and their requests for them are getting lost in the shuffle WAAAAAAAAY more than is proper.

2) no 'binning'

i would *REALLY* love some kind of way that there could be 'bins' for im's, personal people (on my friends list, or in the group of the tag i have active) could be set for immediate delivery/notice/chat... while people whom are not in my friends list, could with me set to certain modes, say 'work' mode or 'haven' mode or what have you, basically leave 'voicemail' aka the message would be delivered and saved, and mabye some small little 'lamp' on the UI go red or blinky, letting me know i had some queued messages i could read, at my leisure. And people would be notified, hey, i got your message, and i will get to answering your question as soon as i can.

Mabye even custom bins like an actual company voice mail, where people with specific problems could leave them in specific bins, and i could switch my 'activity' mode to get them delivered to me accordingly.

The current 'busy' mode really doesn work at *all* for this because it doesn let my friends talk to me at all, and the auto rejection of inventory etc, its a mess for me.

3) no 'green dot on map' aka hiding, at least on your own, or your group's land

yes ok i know i'm the 193424th person asking for it but i was also like, the 45th, and 2.5 years later we still don't have it.

4) one last idea for 'binning'... why can't groups have 'voicemail' bins while we're at it...

Allow someone to ask 'luskwood' for a foot replacement, and it will be sent to the luskwood bin of whoever in the group elects to field those kinds of messages. Same for support, or sales, etc... Allow groups to effectively make sure customers have a *SIMPLE* and effective target to interact with, like a real business.

You (using that collectively) may have no idea how critical that could be, for anyone not just 'in business' for themselves, but who is trying to use a group structure to manage selling something, or hosting a large/theme area, etc... it could save alot of lost hours, and save people from alot of un-needed distractions as people end up playing the 'telephone game' trying to get a message from someone to the peson who needs to recieve it.

I like how some of these ideas are evolving...

The UI right now is 'clunky' at best for IMs... there's no way to IM a group PERIOD short of the old vote system which has been so totally turned into an IM system that people probobly don't use it for voting but would rather do so in person in group meetings.

32 buffered messages, with no chance of future retrieval is insane, I've gotten an IM and /CRASHED/ so many times that I generally hope I at least can see who it is to be able to respond. There's absolutely /no/ chat history, I think any IM client out there that's current generation has a chat history, if not, a second client (Trillian or a few others) offer it for that protocal. Google even has them available on g-mail for retrieval.

Though, I could throw out, just for an insane bone... customizable UI and the API to code tools into the client... then we could do all this and LL can focus on the graphic engine and backend more.

Beach balls can float away for any of a number of bizarre reasons in SL. I'm not saying allow this anywhere... just over land controlled by the player wanting privacy.

Think of it this way. In Real Life I can build a fence around my home that you can't see over. I can lock my front door and pull the blinds and hide in my basement if I want to.

In SecondLife ... I can't. Even with banned land perimeter boundaries extending 40m up from the ground, folks can still shove a camera in my face if they want to.

I just want is some privacy so I can focus for a while!

'Busy' mode is inadequate. You unplug the phone and folks will just show up instead, throwing rocks at the window or whatever it takes to get attention. The ones I wouldn't mind interrupting won't because they're too considerate... the ones I don't want interrupting will because they're inconsiderate. Not that that has any point, I just wanted to say it.



Can we give the drama a rest? mortal = non-linden.

I understand and support your concerns about not giving griefers additional tools/powers to exploit.

I'd be tickled pink if Linden Labs decided to distribute an 'offline' SecondLife engine where we can build, script, test and then have some mechanism that would allow us to upload finished works into the grid.

I don't think it'll ever happen though.

In the mean time... "Doing nothing" about the lack of privacy is not a solution.

I would think someone so besotted with griefers would WANT some kind of privacy in order to get away from them.

--
Grumble.

Ranma, its clear in the comments you've made and the questions you're asking that you didn't even read the entire original proposal... I'll relink it here for you:

http://secondslog.blogspot.com/2006/02/formal-proposal-revamping-second-life.html

NO, this wouldn't impact your Psyke Phaeton script using llSensor. YES, it would provide those of us to whom this is a concern the privacy necessary. Most of the questions you've asked are addressed in the original proposal. You commented on that page as well, however, its clear from your comments that you didn't read (or perhaps just didn't understand?) the entire proposal.

Most of your concerns are addressed in this paragraph, which was typed in all caps: "REGARDLESS OF ANY OPTION, AN AVATAR WILL STILL BE SEEN IN THE 3-D SIMULATION IN WORLD AND ANY CHAT YOU TYPE LOCALLY. JUST BECAUSE YOU APPEAR OFFLINE IN FIND AND YOUR GREEN DOT DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE MAP DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU DO NOT APPEAR IN WORLD. THIS PROPOSAL DOES NOT CONSTITUTE TOOLS THAT COULD BE USED THAT EASILY FOR GRIEFING; IT IS TRYING TO PROVIDE THE OPPOSITE."

Regards,

-Flip