This Has Got To Stop Linden Labs!!

"Think before you post – sometimes in the heat of a passionate discussion you may be tempted to say something that on reflection you will regret. If your words do more harm to the community than they might give you pleasure in the short term, reconsider posting."

I find this very ironic for Hulk to be posting to another of his victimims......If he is so concerned about the community, let him show eveyone exactly what happend and why...I also invite all the other property groups that use this practice to also disclose how they got land.....

For the good of the community, of course.

I'm not going to talk about this case in particular because this isn't the place to discuss personal trasactions. The issue that should and has always been up for debate is what is a legitamate land purchase. As it is now all the land that is set for sale to the public is on the land sales listings. There aren't tags saying which ones are real properties for sale and which ones are mistakes. There is no way to distinguish between the two.

One feature that I believe Linden is about to introduce is a land wizard of sorts that will force the seller to select whether they want to sell to anyone or to a single person. This is a feature that is needed and I welcome the change.

Regardless of the price per square meter everyone needs to take personal responsibilty prior to setting land for sale, even with the new upcoming features. When you set the land for public, and confirm you actions then you are allowing anyone to buy.

I can't think of a single thing irl that's like this. Can you?

coco

I've dabbled in land sales, and this is the very reason I don't like the way virtual real estate works.

If you see a good deal, you have to puchase it immediatly or it will be bought by someone else. There is no time to talk, let things rez, scout out the area. You literally have seconds before the land is gone.

After I realized this, I figured I could always give the land back if it was a mistake. However, one time I inadvertently bumped myself up into a higher tier. Had that been a mistake on the part of the seller, there was no way I was going to eat the cost of their mistake.

Fortunatly, that deal was ok, but it illustrates just how easy it is for things to turn into an everybody loses type of deal.

FYI - I edited my original post as I may have misunderstood you. And you are correct that there is no way to distingush between real sales and mistakes, but all I know is what I would do. If I bought land that did not affect my tier, and the seller contacted me immediatly after a sale saying it was a mistake, I would would sell the land back at the same price. I'd also take a little time to explain how the land controls work and how to avoid the most common mistakes.

Not only would it be the right thing to do, but you'd also have a customer for life, and guess who they would turn to when they need to buy or sell land.

Sometimes you can do well by doing good.

Exactly.

Nod, I totally agree. I return land on a daily basis using that way alone. It's a case-by-case judgement call that each of us have to make, and Linden gives us the power to make those decisions. There are many factors that haven't even been discussed in this thread. What if a seller has "seller's remorse?" If I price a land and it sells within a couple of minutes I automatically ask myself if I priced it too cheap. Some take their remorse to the next level and ask for it back so they can mark it for a higher price just to see if that person will buy it.

It's happened to me before. I bought a 512 in a first sim for 1000L. The person said that it was a mistake and asked if he could have it back. Later in the day he IM'd me again and said that he wanted to sell the same plot. When I TP'd in he had marked the price up to 6000L.

A lot of people have been RIPPED OFF by this guy including me. Was resizing to sell a larger plot it set the entire 3600 sqm for 3900 WITHOUT a confimation I might add and he swooped in took it said thank you when I told him it was a mistake repriced and left. You don't want personal attacks don't rip people off say thank you when they try to explain and leave.

Edit:
you could always pay me the other 15k the land was worth and I would leave you alone.

Without confirmation? Sounds like that's between you and LL. Are you trying to blame him for technical bugs?

There really isn't a way to know which sales are legit and which are mistakes, but if you or anyone else follows the forums (deemed useless by LL) on this subject, you'd know that too much land is being sold by mistake. The problem is if you make you LL living as a land dealer, you're the one who is being asked to bear the costs for other people's mistakes.

The seller's remorse is a big problem too. I generally have no little sympathy for someone who doesnt' do their homework in figuring out a good selling price, and if they sell their land cheap, too bad. I'd cut a little more slack for first land seller though. Odds are that they intended to sell the land, but lack the experience in pricing it. Still, its a judgment call there, but at least the odds are they land was intended to be sold. I seriously undersold my first land, but learned a lot about land after that and made some good deals.

Given the current problems, if I ever got back into land, I was considering having a short recission period for all transactions during which the seller could have the land returned no questions asked, and having this as a stated policy in my profile. That would go a long way to rectifying mistakes. A long time period would probably not be necessary as most mistakes seem to occur when the sellers are on line, and the nature of the misake results in the land being sold fast.

I'm curious as to whether you think this would be viable?

The interface isn't confusing. It wasn't confusing the first time. It plainly says 'You have set the land to sell for XXXX linden dollars. Anyone may purchase this land. Continue?'

It then gives you a choice, 'continue' or 'cancel.'

Its the SIMPLEST interface in SL.

'This site would like to install a free browser for you!'

'Continue' or 'cancel'

Exactly alike.

Hmmm... I have to think REAL hard on this one. (NOT) I know for a fact this land was set at 7L$ per sq m when I was asked to come to see it. That was on Aug 19. I was asked to give an appraisal of the land. I saw that it was at 7 and said that is a good deal for anyone even with it being in a (PG) sim, (Mature) might fetch a little more on a good day for sure. It was right on the water - WHICH by the way is Linden Protected. So I told Olive's sister who was there. She had set it at a good market price anything higher would probably be sitting for a long time.

In fact I made an offer then for the land but told her she would be waiting for me to get the L$ to buy it at my offer. And, for her to keep it at the 7 in case she could sell it before I came up with the funds.

So I know that it was not an intentional sale by any part of my imagination for her to sell that land at 3L$ per sq m. Even if it wasn't all of it. There is no way I could see anyone thinking that was a fair deal in any way shape or form.

Believe what you want. I do like to do land deals from time to time. I use to put a LOT more time into that then I currently do. But, if I bought land and the owner ever wanted to it back. I'd always give it at the price I paid no matter what. Just the way you keep your name in a good light.

I've even sold land to others that then said to me, "Hey I bought this by mistake can you buy it back?" Of course I did but only at the price they bought it for not at a mark up. It's not that hard for anyone in Real Estate to make a bad name fast when they don't do things quite the way we should or even the way others might think we should.

It's all part of making yourself the better person. And, well in this case. I have to side with the land seller. Since I was there before this ever took place. I can't say anything other then what I would have done and have done in the past. It's not that hard to fix it. You just have to WANT to do the right thing.

As someone stated. If you give it back and they need help later. YOU will most likely always be called to help them. Why would they not want to go with someone they just learned can be TOTALLY TRUSTED to do what is right in their eyes? Not like its going to hurt anyone or anything for that matter.

Enough though of my rant on this. I really do hope Olive that you get what you need to from LL. Just keep in on them. It happens like this sometimes. And, no one should have to suffer for a true and honest mistake. No matter what.

This is just one persons 0.02L$ worth of chatter. Those that truely know me though. Know all I speak is honesty. So take it for what you will. That's all I can ask anyone.

Isaac

Nope. Think some more.

coco

It's a sad day anytime anyone is ripped off on a land deal that would have made a much better place had the land sold as it rightfully should have. Now what will happen as opposed to what will happen remains to be seen. All I can do is set back and watch from the outside. I hope this will end well. Only time will give that answer.

As you said, a reasonable price is everyting..... GJ m8

Sorry, I'm right on this one. If people pay attention and don't always hit continue, they'll be fine.

What if ppl see the right data and hit continue but the right data doesn't appear in the final post???

Edit: Ain't we all people, beings who are capable of making mistakes? Should we be punished for making those mistakes? Even if they are mistakes caused by buggy software?

The problem with displaying UI is that people will take every opportunity to ignore it. It does not matter if you personally find the pop up window confusing or not, when large percent of your users simply won't even try to read it...

In that case, blame LL.


But 99% of cases are where someone didn't pay attention and set it to sell to anyone for 1 linden.

Let me finish for you.

The problem with displaying UI is that people will take every opportunity to ignore it. It does not matter if you personally find the pop up window confusing or not, when large percent of your users simply won't even try to read it...then they have only themselves to blame.

And?

If you are developing the software and UI in particular, your work is not to wonder if you can put the blame on operator, and treat it as if it somehow makes it all OK. It's to build interface which minimizes the room for error _taking into account the habits of people who will be using it_. That includes not reading dialog boxes and such.

There are just too many people making this misake for me to say too bad. Granted, there will be enough stupid people to bypass even the most well designed safeguards, but the problem does appear to be widespread enough that its not just limited to a chosen few who are lacking in grey matter, and I've yet to see an experienced real estate person suffering from the interface.

But it also means that I don't have to have sympathy for the people who don't pay attention and am free to point out its their fault.

They have it clear as a dialog now, theres no need to tinker.