
Pooh on balls is icky.
These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE
Do you think the people behind sl-escorts.com should be banned from SL? |
|
FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
![]() Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
|
02-28-2006 10:29
Stroker, those are some transcripts I'd love to see... as in, "So you're doing a guy: the after math!"
![]() Pooh on balls is icky. _____________________
Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars! |
Helenna Christensen
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 7
|
02-28-2006 10:30
Weeeelll....I know he can't post the actual chatlogs on the forums or anything. >.> But...considering he LINKED his site TO the forums....and his site HAS the chatlogs...where does that stack up? o_O I mean, wouldn't that TECHNICALLY mean he's posting it ON the forums?
(Sorry if someone already said something like this. >.< I got to page 5 and had to get back in-game.) |
Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
![]() Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
|
02-28-2006 11:01
Why should they be banned ? I can't see a single remote reason, let alone a ToS violation. From the one time I read the site (when it was first promoted here I glanced at it), it appeared that the author was pretty much into making the escorts look foolish and was reasonably insulting, so perhaps if the "reviews" were a little more professional it might have skated by the censor also. ![]() It is also different from product review because you are talking about a person or at least a representation of a person. These people or avatars are not "famous" enough to make it okay to just defame and ridicule them day in and day out. I think they deserve a certain amount of respect/privacy etc. They have no expectation that they were giving up their privacy just by doing their job. _____________________
.
black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
![]() Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
|
02-28-2006 11:32
if the chat logs are being published that is a black and white TOS violation, so banning would seem appropriate in that case. Given the variety of interpretations we have seen so far, it doesn't seem so black and white. They have no expectation that they were giving up their privacy just by doing their job. Every time you interact with people that are not your friends, you should have an expectation that your privacy is not going to be safeguarded. Especially when it is a sales transaction. Especially if you trade in sex. Did any of these avs really think being a virtual escort would be tea and crumpets and doilies? Reality, not niceties. People name names. People talk. People talk about sex, virtual or otherwise. People you don't really know don't give a rat's ass about you. "Oh what a nice young avie he was. And so nice of him to pay for virtual sex chat. I'm glad he won't go tell anyone about this. I'm sure he doesn't have a blog ![]() Really? _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
![]() |
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
![]() Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
|
02-28-2006 11:36
Did any of these avs really think being a virtual escort would be tea and crumpets and doilies? I would pay extra for crumpets and doilies. _____________________
![]() |
Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
![]() Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
|
02-28-2006 11:37
I would pay extra for crumpets and doilies. so hawt _____________________
|
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
![]() Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
|
02-28-2006 11:38
so hawt Takes one to know one. ![]() _____________________
![]() |
Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
![]() Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
|
02-28-2006 11:39
Takes one to know one. ![]() Are you calling me a doilie? _____________________
|
Red Mars
What?
![]() Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
|
02-28-2006 11:47
This guy violated the User Agreement plain and simple He did stealth reviews of the escorts having sex without their knowledge, including chat transcripts of conversations that users expect to be private. It would be one thing if the escorts all came to him for the reviews. But this is NOT the case. First Amendment rights does NOT include recording people engaging in private sex and then without their permission laundering that over the public Internet. His site should die a quick death. He has NO journalistic integrity and cannot be objective if he also takes paid advertisements from both the girls and the clubs. Please don't get bamboozled by his call for internet freedom. Having the sex is internet freedom. Recording it for the world and getting everyone riled up is NOT. So you're saying you got a bad write-up? Right? |
Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
![]() Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
|
02-28-2006 11:50
My problem with the site is that what he is reviewing is completely subjective. His preferences (which seem to lean towards being a sub, along with other things) may not be other people's preferences. I see that he really prefers people to do short, quick sentences one after another really fast. Personally, that kind of thing just gets me annoyed since I can't get a word in. I like long, well crafted descriptions. The best thing he could do would be to report on what happened, give an accuracte depiction of how they worked, and let the readers decide whether or not that type of style is attractive to them. The ratings thing is pretty meaningless, unless you have the exact same preferences as he does. Anyway, those are just my opinions about the website. He can do whatever he wants to on a third party site. If they start the precedence of banning people due to what they say about SL outside of it, then it will get close to time to jump ship. His silence on the reasons for his banning suggest to me that his membership is on the line for more than just runing a review service. Also only one person here seems to have picked up on the fact that it is a TOS violation to secretly record people's chat without thier knowledge. Just because he didn't post it on an LL controlled site doesn't change the fact that he violated the TOS during the recording of the conversation. The escorts in question are doing a job to the best of their ability and have an expectation of privacy as it is guaranteed in writing by the TOS that we all agreed to. It says that we shouldn't engage in secretly recording conversations, not that it's okay to do it if "no-one knows" and okay to publish it as long as it's a private site. Excuse me for pulling out the feminist card here, but I think people are just okay with this because these are just "dumb whores" that are being ridiculed here. Same as sex-trade workers in RL. If it was Aimee, Willow, Ingrid or other sexily famous "non-whores" sexy chat that was posted all over the net I dont think the reaction would be the same at all. _____________________
.
black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
Demian Caldera
..ya, that too...
![]() Join date: 8 Jun 2004
Posts: 249
|
02-28-2006 11:51
Why? It's a fan website essentially... should we ban bloggers who's opinions we don't agree with... positive or negative? I know few up for the chop if that were the case.. It's Dadaism at it's best, just using the internet as the media! ![]() ...and NO to your above question! ![]() |
Red Mars
What?
![]() Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
|
02-28-2006 11:53
Hypothetically speaking, what if those escorts who you rated, were to rate you back? Are you really God's gift to women that you claim to be? "I don’t have a huge cock. I do in RL, but on SL I want to experience life with a normal-sized cock." How would you feel if you were rated buddy? I'm sure you wouldn't be playing martyr here, you'd be wanting those ladies banned. Now if you say you wouldn't want them banned, you are quite the hypocrit? Hmm..something to ponder for all of you defending this creep-What if it had been YOU that was rated? I doubt you would be very happy with this guy and be saying he shouldn't be banned. Have a nice day! Hmmmm very interesting idea ... Rate the Paying Customer! Seems odd on the face of it since, after all, the paying customer is paying the escort for her performance, his performance doesn't really play a part in the transaction .. but that's just me |
Red Mars
What?
![]() Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
|
02-28-2006 11:56
The guys site is drivel. non productive and hes full of himself. The part about wanting to experince what having an average size member was like in sl cracked me up. Fact is recording anyconversation without knowledge be it vocal or digital is effectively wire tapping. Flame away. he should be banned. But it is entertaining to read ... so since he's putting this out in a blog form ... to be read and entertained by ... then uhh ... doesn't that mean he's doing it well? ![]() |
Demian Caldera
..ya, that too...
![]() Join date: 8 Jun 2004
Posts: 249
|
02-28-2006 12:00
No one cares about the Crackwhores of Second Life. No one until now! http://sl-crackwhores.blogspot.com/ Another modern Dadaist! ![]() |
Demian Caldera
..ya, that too...
![]() Join date: 8 Jun 2004
Posts: 249
|
02-28-2006 12:02
![]() ![]() ![]() And what would Bono say? ![]() |
Red Mars
What?
![]() Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
|
02-28-2006 12:04
Do you think SL Escorts have a right to privacy? or.. Seems to me the only ones that would truly be upset are the one who get a bad rating. Highly rated escorts would expect this free advertising for their skill to increase their earning potential. As for it being private .. well this really isn't a slice of their private life is it? What the real question should be is: Do you think a business transaction should be so confidential that a dissatisfied customer has no right to tell anyone else that they got poor service? It's a little like a restaurant, or a movie studio, or a car manufacturer sueing for a bad review to keep the bad press silent. The bottom line here is that no one wants a bad review. That's what people are really objecting to. |
Red Mars
What?
![]() Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
|
02-28-2006 12:07
cybersex is a personal and private activity between consenting partners. I completely agree ... cyberprostituion on the other hand is a business transaction and the customer has a right to rate the service. |
Red Mars
What?
![]() Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
|
02-28-2006 12:09
I am all for freedom of expression/speech/thought.... Hell...I sell COCKS in SL fgs! But this is a violation on so many levels... TOS: USER CONDUCT (iv) take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit Content as determined by Linden at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, causes tort, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable. USE AS PROVIDED You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for the Service, except that you may use the Linden Software to the extent expressly permitted by this Agreement. RIGHTS IN CONTENT You acknowledge that Linden and other Content Providers have rights in their respective Content under copyright and other applicable laws and treaty provisions, that they retain all such rights and that you accept full responsibility and liability for your use of any Content in violation of any such rights. COMMUNITY STANDARDS: INTOLERANCE The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images in reference to another Resident's race, ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation is never allowed in Second Life. HARRASMENT Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment. DISCLOSURE Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Lives. Sharing personal information about a fellow Resident --including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location beyond what is provided by the Resident in the First Life page of their Resident profile is a violation of that Resident's privacy. Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums. ALTERNATE ACCOUNTS Alternate accounts are generally treated as separate from a Resident's principal account, but misuse of alternate accounts can and will result in disciplinary action on the principal account. Reporting Abuse Residents should report violations of the Community Standards using the Abuse Reporter tool located under the Help menu in the in-world tool bar. If you feel that DeGroot has violated your privacy..harrased you..posted your likeness or chatlogs without permission..defamed you..or has used alternate accounts to access your sim/establishments after being banned.. To the Escorts...please do not feel that roleplaying an escort diminishes your right to privacy nor freedom from abuse/harrasment. I encourage you to send an abuse report. ALL of which has to do with being IN SL or the SL forums. Not 3rd party sites. |
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
![]() Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
|
02-28-2006 12:12
Also only one person here seems to have picked up on the fact that it is a TOS violation to secretly record people's chat without thier knowledge. I can't find any specific language that indicates this. The best I can come up with is this part of the CS, and this is quoted above numerous times: Disclosure Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Lives. Sharing personal information about a fellow Resident --including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location beyond what is provided by the Resident in the First Life page of their Resident profile is a violation of that Resident's privacy. Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums. Remotely monitoring is not the case here. Posting or Sharing in SL and on SL Forums are not the case here. I don't interpret this situation, being a sales transaction, as entitled to a reasonable level of privacy. Similarly mentioned was this part of TOS (iv) take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit Content as determined by Linden at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, causes tort, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable; If LL wants to make the call on this as being "invasive of another's privacy", which I doubt they would, that is another matter. I have not seen that happen yet. I would like to see the part you are interpreting that indicates what you are saying. _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
![]() |
graphicguru Glass
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 25
|
Ban? absolutely!
02-28-2006 12:12
Sorry Kendra, I am changing my post that you quoted, because I did not read the thread carefully enough.
I believe in free speech, but I also believe in ethics when dealing with fellow human beings. (You should keep my original post quoted below for posterity). Upon further examination of this thread, I came to a rather different conclusion. I misunderstood the post to mean that LL may BAN all escort services in SL. Boy was I ever wrong! Boy was I ever a NOOB! (And I am) I personally know a escort in Amsterdam (who's name is nobody’s business) I can say this, they (the escorts) are up in arms about this guy who blogged them in a site without their permission. I would be furious too if it happened to me. What I do in SL is NOBODY'S business but mine, as long as I do not grief anyone. The same should be for those escort lovelies who choose that profession. This guy did something unethical, even if he skirted around the rules and did not 'technically' break them. He broke an unwritten rule. He broke a moral rule. 'The prostitutes will enter the kingdom of heaven before he does' (to quote the most quoted man in history) He (this blogger) is on a ban list now in most of the escort service areas. (I don't think he is going to get any, any time soon!) It is unfortunate that LL has chosen to allow people to change accounts like they change a shirt. There should be a rule that lists in a person's profile all their other aliases, past and present. That would put a stop to people like him. Damn! Who would even think of RATING something as subjective as a date with an escort? I do not want to know about someone else’s experience. And I certainly don't want anyone knowing about MY experiences, unless they are personally a part of it. Gossip is one of human kind’s worst vices. I have never put my confidence in tabloid type publications for a good reason. Tabloids are by nature digging dirt, always wanting to make someone else look bad. They also show only one side of the 'alleged' truth. If I had a vote, or say in the matter, this guy would be banned for betrayal of confidence, whether it is in the exact wording of the rules or not. His actions were not just against avi's, but against the talented real people behind them. These real people are offended by his indiscretion, and have been grieved. I side with the escorts...ban the bastard! |
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
![]() Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
|
02-28-2006 12:15
The oldest proffesion will not go away by a simple ban. What about the couples who like a little privacy inn SL, are you going to ban them too? The do-gooders are every where, Up in heaven too! My girl and I were private IMing each other from a semi-private little alcove in heaven, and the do-gooders were filling the screen with their babble, now THAT aught to be banned! The dialouge that is written for intimate scenerios is a vital part of poetic expression. I see it as a way that many couples can go on SL to live out their lives by living out their hidden fantasies. I know several couples who actually improved thier FL relationships this way. Hey, whatever works for you. But a ban would be like cutting your legs out from underneath yourself. SL would FOLD in weeks if they ban sex there. I've been on SL close to three weeks, and found that more often then not, women are there for some of the same reasons as men. Seems like there are more women on than men. People go there to meet new friends, find secret love and acceptance, an escape from RL. I find the women I talk to in SL are more open there than in RL. And they enjoy the opportunity to express themselves there, where in RL it would be somewhat more difficult for them. So ban away, it will not stop sex between couples, or client /escort. Try to deal with the reality of VR & RL...Ban sex, and it WILL NOT GO AWAY! ![]() _____________________
|
Red Mars
What?
![]() Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
|
02-28-2006 12:15
Cybersex chat logs: as soon as you put those words in someone's IM or into open chat you can no longer control them They can post them and do as they like.. Sorry but you are wrong Jonas. COMMUNITY STANDARDS, Secction 4, Disclosure... Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums. This may appeal to the voyeur in most of us...but that doesnt make it right, everyone has the right to privacy in SL. Even Escorts. Abuse report him if you feel your privacy has been violated. I put the important section you quoted in bold |
Red Mars
What?
![]() Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
|
02-28-2006 12:23
Weeeelll....I know he can't post the actual chatlogs on the forums or anything. >.> But...considering he LINKED his site TO the forums....and his site HAS the chatlogs...where does that stack up? o_O I mean, wouldn't that TECHNICALLY mean he's posting it ON the forums? (Sorry if someone already said something like this. >.< I got to page 5 and had to get back in-game.) Bad review, huh? |
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
![]() Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
|
02-28-2006 12:28
Excuse me for pulling out the feminist card here, but I think people are just okay with this because these are just "dumb whores" that are being ridiculed here. Same as sex-trade workers in RL. If it was Aimee, Willow, Ingrid or other sexily famous "non-whores" sexy chat that was posted all over the net I dont think the reaction would be the same at all. Allow me to pull out the 'Don't even go there sistah' card. Why don't you scream from the rooftops about people like - say Prokofy posting converstations on their blog then? Oh thats right - because you can cry feminist on that. It's either right or its wrong - and the profession or gender shouldn't come into it. I'll wait for the LL judgement on it. _____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
Zee Feaver
Registered User
Join date: 7 Oct 2003
Posts: 37
|
02-28-2006 12:57
sl-escorts.com is linked from secondlife.com as a fan site. According to the fan site page, sites have to submitted. Does that involve an approval process? I don't see any way you can just add your own site there. Looks like Pathfinder Linden approves (or disapproves them) and then links them up.
So, if LL approved the site as a fan site worthy of linking to, turning around and trying to ban for it, is... odd. |