Are you for or against AV child porn in SL?

I think that Miso soup has too much salt in it and is not healthy if too much is drunk. I agree restraunts do a better job of making it.


About the main point of this thread, hmmm it would seem to have been made to get a strong reaction from the gentle residents. Perhaps it is the work of a troll. Do they like miso soup? Perhaps they would like my home cooking? My miso soup often leaves people breathless!

Maybe this has been pointed out, but is a 1000-year old vampire that looks like a child bc it was bitten while a child a "child av"? There's been plenty of focus on what something looks like and it seems too little on what something is. Perhaps this example would help define what this is really all about.

I made a joke about this in another thread, but seriously...

The charachter "Stewie" on the adult cartoon Family Guy is an infant.

"Stewie" is often placed in adult situations, many of them with sexual connotations.

"Family Guy" is aired on both Broadcast (FOX) and Basic Cable (TBS), (Cartoon Network)

Is Family Guy child porn any more or less than cartoon Child AV's in Second Life are? If not, why?


Additionally, what if someone were to don a "Stewie" avatar, and visit a sex club. Is that child porn?


Just askin'

I still think this a big media scandal waiting to happen. The press love this kind of thing and they would hype it out of all proportions. People on here might think simulated children in sexual positions is art, but I imagine the gutter press wouldn't.

Still it may be a long way in the future as SL isn't exactly photo-realistic yet.

I'd have to say if they went so far as having Stewie polish Hank Hill's knob, it would be cartoon child porn and therefore Fox might get some complaints. If someone donned a Stewie Avatar in SL and engaged in sex activites, it would then be child cartoon character avatar pornography and thus covered under the 2006 Child Cartoon Character Protection Act.

I'm with you, Ewan... this subject is SO ripe for primetime news!

You may think that SL isn't photo-realistic but I'm sorry, some of the more detailed chick avatars have resulted in my getting up from the computer and bending my wife over the back of the couch while I pretend to type /AO OFF on her back.

Are you at this point just making shite up as you go along? Troll on.

*Cuts your phone line and stomps on your cell* (No I don't know that you'd really do that. Looking at your art I'd say your pretty open-minded)



You're prolly right, and that is just one aspect of the fallout that can occur when people get a bit to passionate about issues that are near to their hearts.

I urge you to consider that when pushing for the criminalization of child avie fantasy in SL.

People "might", but I've not heard anyone claim it is remotely what you're suggesting. However, this gets to the question everyone's been asking: how is it pedophilia if there are no children involved (and the quality of the graphics don't approach photorealism as apparently is implied by the 2003 law regarding this issue)? If there are no children involved, but it's still considered a crime involving children, then what about games where people kill other people? That's an illegal RL activity as well. Is murder acceptable? Why is it okay to engage in that activity in a game like Counter-Strike? Where are the protests???

How far do we allow the authorities to extend their juridiction into our thoughts? That's the issue here afaic.

I may be wrong and if so it will play out that way over time but the way I see it, people use visual images of sexuality to stimulate sexual urges and fantasy. I might be different but if I'm relaxing and in the mood to have fun and I look at pictures of naked women (even hot naked woman avatars) partaking in sexual activity, a little switch goes on in my head and I start to look at my wife with that "okay, you and me are going to get sweaty here and now" look. Did the pictures cause me to have sex with my wife? No, but they did trigger me to seek it out!

In knowing what is going on with images of child avatars having sex with adult avatars in SL, I can't help but fear deeply for a RL child who may be in the next room to the adult who is banging the hell out of a 5 yr old avatar in SL.

I may simply be afraid for no reason but my instinct tells me no good can come out of such a situation. If we ignore our instincts when it comes to such things we are not being responsible adults. Instead, we voice it and see what happens. If we are off-base and we all are at some point in our lives, it will simply resolve itself.

dang you all -- i had almost successfully derailed this thread with the whole miso soup thing. I mean... i really do love the stuff and would love a good homemade recipe but it was also good for the derailing.

Since that has failed......

Three men and a baby. The baby was vocalized with an adult voice. Given adult mannerisms. Ya think the three men wanted to boff the baby or was it just um... MAKE BELIEVE? geesh

Pedophilia has been defined in another more heated thread as an adult having fantasies of anyone under 13. It is pretty cut and dry.

In regard to games where you shoot people. Ask yourself this, have you ever wanted to shoot someone after shooting people in a game? Okay, well, have you ever wanted to boink someone real after watching porn? Pornography is a sex aid, shoot'em up games are entertainment.

Well, check these out:

Stewie Griffin Quotes

Better yet, how about Peter and Chris (Chris is Peter's 12? year old son):

Peter: (Walks out of the bathroom and wanders into another room. He walks into the room and walks behind the bed. We find out that this is Chris' room.) Hey, you still awake, Lois honey? (Peter lays down into Chris' bed.)
Chris: Dad?
Peter: That's right, I'm your daddy. Shh, Shh, Shh, Shh. Don't talk, Lois, don't talk. Just let me do all the work. Yeah...now feel my warm breath on the nape of your neck. My hands on your big soft boobs...running down your big man-like chest. (Peter jumps up.) Holy crap, It's Chris!! Uhh...Uhh...So, uhh...How ya doin'? You do all your homework?
Chris: (nods his head.)
Peter: Finish all your subjects?
Chris: Yes, sir.
Peter: Good, just uhh, just checkin'. (Backs towards the door.) Have a good night son. (Walks down the hall.)
Peter: You still awake honey?
Stewie: What the deuce?

How about that? (Aired on FOX). Is that Child Porn?

If you are asking this seriously I'll say what that is is humor. I don't think anyone tunes into Family Guy to squeeze one off.

Agreed - its humor. But are we really suggesting that all folks who dress up as Child AV's in Second Life are doing something any less innocuous?

And if there are a small percentage of folks out there who are 'squeezing one off' over it in SL, wouldn't the above exchange on Family guy (While humorous to any 'normal' person) provide masturbation fodder for someone paedophelically inclined?

I guess what I'm trying to say is - I think for the vast majority of normal folks.. Child AV's worn by adults in SL are innocuous. Likewise, Family Guy is innocuous for normal folks.

But if Child AV's should be banned in SL because there are unsavory individuals out there, shouldn't certain Family Guy broadcasts be banned for similar reasons?

giggity.

YES Nolan, I'm extremely open minded! I am for celebrating all kinds of wonderful kinks. I make a living photographing sexuality. But just as people passionate about anything they love, they also tend to have strong opinions about issues that relate.

Like sports fans being concerned about doping, music fans concerned about what American Idol is doing to the industry, Internet junkies concerned about privacy... I want to protect what I am passionate about from those who will give it a bad name. SL is a great environment, but the second it gets out to the Bill O'Reilly's of the world that pedophiles are using it to nefarious ends, that will be all Second Life is to the world. Just like to many, erotic art is simply porn.

I think you're wrong about 'where are the protests'. Here in the UK, violence in computer games has been a pretty big moral panic for years. Just type in 'violence computer games' into the BBC website for a little idea. The BBC is considered respectable here so you can imagine some of the trash that has been printed in the press about games causing real life violence and murder. I totally agree with your reasoning but the press here have never been sensible about anything.

I don't think child AVs should be banned. I think there should be a stated policy that they are not to be used for sexual purposes. It is really very simple. By making the policy it is a message that Second Life is against such behavior. Of course it will still go on but when this story breaks, at least Bill O'Reilly won't be able to say that Linden Labs obviously condones such behavior because they have no quams about having a stated policy against hate speech.

The people who get so emotional about this issue are all really saying the same thing... Simply be realistic about those that ARE masturbating to children having sex and say it isn't right and not what SL is about. I understand their frustration, particularly those who have been abused themselves as children. They "know" the behavior and the know the signs of the behavior and they are afraid.

You're using subjective criteria here. That's an issue.

Here are the assumptions being made:

1) Adults - not children - who represent themselves as child avatars are going to act on their urges and molest a RL child.
2) Unlike sex, shooting and killing someone in a videogame does not elicit the same response to go out and act on that urge.
3) Our personal reactions are relevant.

What if I were to say that all pornography is deviant? That pornographic material leads to adultery which is also illegal in most countries and cultures? YOU say pornography is a "sex aid". There are plenty of activists who will tell you pornography is exploitation, objectification, dehumanization. Perhaps we should let them decide. And when they judge you on your fantasy, you can live in your imagination while sitting in a prison cell.

(btw, "shoot'em up games" are also being used by the military to train for actual combat. Additionally, the UCAV system will be little more than a "game" where an operator sits somewhere in the safety of a U.S. installation and controls a swarm of killing machines half a world away. The operator might be entertained, but real people will die.)

I was referring to protest on this forum. One individual earlier suggested killing avatars was a healthy activity, yet pretend sex was different! If I'm going to condemn one, I have to condemn both.

I'm quite aware that there are some limited protests IRL; it's difficult to not see something regarding the ongoing debate in the MSM (or at least over on Blue's). What's interesting is that while GTA racked up untold $$millions$$ in sales when most everyone knew that virtual innocents (including police) were being virtually killed; what got people worked up? A virtual BJ unlocked by a game mod.

As I stated before, I may be misguided. If I am it will all pan out. There are millions who suggest all pornography is deviant and so it is up for discussion constantly. That is all we are doing here, discussing it. My opinion is to have a stated policy because I see it one way. Those who disagree with me have that right.

Maybe as the elections draw near this issue will work its way into political formats or maybe it won't. My guess it will because if it can draw this kind of controversy within the SL community, imagine what it will become for anti-porn activists, religeous zealots and pundits!

I suggest Linden Labs take it seriously and nip it at the bud but I could be wrong. If I'm wrong then nothing will become of any of it, if I'm right and LL stays on the current track I believe the issue will explode in the international press and political campaigns.

It won't be hard for an investigative journalist who wants to make a name for him or herself to go into SL and get some footage of this sort of behavior and once that is playing on the six O'clock news it will be too late to stop the backlash.

Good points, Levi. And I tend to agree with you there when you say, "I think there should be a stated policy that they [Child AV's] are not to be used for sexual purposes."

I think what is muddying this conversation a bit is the following (while perverse) common erotic role-play among adults:

Say a man's wife wants him to dress up in adult diapers and go goo-goo ga-ga. Neither of them is interested in child sex, but they find the fetish humiliation erotic in an adult context. While I think that many may find that activity perverse, I wouldn't classify it as pedophilic either.

Now take that bedroom role-play activity to Second Life. On the one hand, I could argue that two consenting adults should be able to use the creativity of Second Life to live out their erotic fantasies. NOT their pedophilic erotic fantasies, but their humiliation erotic fantasies.

On the other hand, just like RL, one could create an Adult AV, and dress it up like a baby. Now we don't have a problem.

I'm really on the fence on this whole argument, and have been since it was first discussed months ago. But I see shards of validity to both sides of the discussion.

Precisely! That was a video game that was not to be sold to anyone under 17 and it still got non-stop media attention and those avatars were all adults! You don't think that the sound bites about virtual child rape will get people worked up in the real world?

It is wrong to use the image of a child for sexual purposes in most people's minds and it doesn't matter whether it is or is not, perception is all that matters in the real world. If politicians jumped on the GTA Hot Coffee bandwagon, you don't think they'll jump on this? It's a no brainer to any political strategist.

I don't disagree. But the issue here started iirc NOT with a public display of inappropriate activity, but a bunch of assumptions about what MIGHT be occurring.

If I'm not mistaken, even in a Mature sim, the LL policy is that anything deemed inappropriately offensive - including adult, heterosexual activity - is not permitted. Does it happen. Yes. But the policy is in place afaik.

So what we really have are people who don't like the idea of even the possibility of this fantasy being roleplayed in the (relative) privacy provided in a sim.

Thought police.