Lets try to work out a solution for the Security Scripts Issue

code change is enforced by the system, policy change is only enforced after the fact, and enugh attention has been brought up about it

so do you want to be lazy now and half ass enforce a policy
or do you wanna do alot of recoding and never have to worry about it again

i think we all know LL's position on work

I don't understand... if 'you' want security, then 'you' should make it obvious. This is the point of the whole thread. There is no such thing as a 'right to privacy' simply based on the fact that you rent a plot of land from LL. Whatever 'you' build can be seen from an adjacent plot, and so if 'you' want to build something that others cannot see.... it is 'your' responsibility to protect it - and if that means using up prims to put beacons around it, then that's the way it is. If 'you' aren't prepared to do that, then it is 'your' problem when 'you' get reported for it. Or, just remove the security in the first place and make it easier for everyone.

There's a fairly good chance that if what you're 'protecting' is pornographic in nature, I and many others do not want to see that sort of rubbish in game in the first place anyway. Believe it or not, many do come here for reasons other than pixel sex.

Lewis

WHAT??? theres other things to do besides awkward sex with a ball hanging out of your butt WOW theres a whole new SL to me


(sorry, it must be the beer)

In an ideal world.

Lemme know when one arrives.



Agreed, mostly, although the tools we have are less than adequet, IMO.




Except that at the moment, there is no requirement to put up prim-beacons. If you do, great, but it's not a reportable offense yet. Reporting someone who doesn't is about like reporting someone for... I dunno... leaving their home a pile of unfinished plywood. Inconsiderate, but not a rule violation.



Else. I believe that's what you meant to say. Make it easier for everyone /else/.




That red herring again? WHAT is being protected isn't relevent. Doesn't matter if its sex or building or scripting or just a couple chairs and friends talking.

Good
I fully realise what I am trying to do is at best a stopgap measure until LL gives property owners tools that make security scripts unneccessary. Assuming LL does give them to us.



yes they do cost a few prims. What we are trying to work out is how many and how placed. given draw distance it will not need to be many if they are large. Beacons it might be possible to just drop the beacon script (once one is written) into an existing prim for the build. I don't know.

I have been asking for help in figuring this out and not getting it.

Which is why I am doing things this way. Best chance of success.

I tried signs. They didn't work. They were 10x10m and surrounded my work area. When that didn't work, I made walls. When that didn't work, I made the walls black.

When that didn't work I put up a security script.

That worked

Though I would much rather have more control over admin options than a security script, so I'm all for changing the way LL handles that.

... and round and round we go in circles yet again, because some people are too wrapped up in their own oerceived rights to think about the actual rights of others.

Let's just say I invented a script that somehow deducted L$10,000 from your account without asking for your permission. Would you complain? No doubt you would. So why is that any different than a security script that bounces me 3 sims away without asking for my permission because I happened to fly near a box?

You see, on map view, you can't see what anything is except that theres a building of some kind somewhere. There's plenty of floating gardens and suchlike that WANT visitors, but from a distance that doesn't look any different from someone's sky sexbox - and unless I get closer I can't see; often by the time you can see it's just a box, the security script has kicked in and the problems begin.

If you do not want visitors, it is up to you to show people that, by putting up something that clearly shows that trespassers will be ejected - then nobody can complain. But when there is no warning, that is a problem and one I will continue to report until LL solve it.

Why has nobody thought about 'digging out' underneath a property to make a basement as a secret workshop, then building something above that? It doesn't draw attention, you can't accidently fly underneath it, and everyone can be happy. Stick up the 'no entry' bars and everyone can be happy.

When people get into their heads that they don't "own" anything in SL, they only pay LL the privilege of renting server space, then the whole matter becomes easier to handle.

There will be no breakthrough or success in this matter, until people stop being so antisocial.

Lewis

Find a way for it to cost us no prims and I'll be all for it. The way I see it, landowners, under this compromise, already drop a 'full' security, buying multiple scripts if they want to protect up to 50 meters then a second one for a more limited radius up to the top of a tower.

Lets let the flyers make the signs..or navigate. If its a compromise the landowners shouldn't be the only ones making a monetary or primitive effort.

edit: The writing up for a proposal of ban lines extending to top of buildspace is in progress, I'm figuring out how to word it. This would generate both a nonprim sign and negate the need for a security script.

I have an area dug underneath but due to the nature of the land we can only alter it to an extend. Content creators often need large areas to operate in.

Jakkal the signs we are talking about are in addition to the security script. And done simply to alert flyers to the scripts presance so they don't get knocked to kingdom come. THey are a courtesy.

I have now spent 2 days trying to get an answer to a simple question and I am fast running out of patience. I can't do this alone folks. In fact it could be argued that I have little real reason to do it all except that it is something I believe in. So one last try here.

We have established (I believe) that a 20 second warning on scripts is required in the 50-768m zone.

Earlier in this thread people indicated they also wanted a visual cue or a beacon. Thats not a bad idea. How do we do it? Do you folks still want this?

I object less to the ban lines and could live with them. Took my own advice and now will only fly on a private island. Got knocked off of my Tarn again while recovering my things. Again no warning, no reason given and over my own property.

Ranma if this is happening to you on your own property then you need to AR the person.

I would also consider turning the object autoreturn on so they can't plant devices on your land. If that isn't practical I would ask a Linden to help find the object puttin gout the security field. SOunds like someone is major league breaking the rules here.

The visual cue only needs be the building that's secured. Signs don't work well in SL because the L.O.D. system will cull smaller individual prims. They're also ugly and it is asking a bit much to have prims used up when thy're not going to be effective anyway.

An IMed warning should be sufficient.

Of course prims used up as signs are going to be effective.

If someone goes within an area that is marked with prim beacons, then gets tp'd out, then that's their fault, not the fault of the person who set up the security script.

If there are no warnings at all, then it's the fault of the person who set up the security script, without any doubt.

That's what I've been saying all along.

Lewis

I just explained that signs are not effective becasue the flipping thigs will not be drawn half the time. Signs create an unreasonable expectation that people will know not to be there.

Where having set limits around structures and IMed warnings makes it possible for travelers to avoid the secured areas and there is then a reasonable expectation on the part of the landholder that people know not to be there.

No, it's not perfect - but then this is about compromise.

I'm compromising by giving in to those who want some form of privacy in their gameplay. So far I don't see much moving from the supporters of security scripts.

Lewis

Apples and kumquats. One is theft, the other isn't. End of story.



Continue to report things that aren't offenses, I don't care. I think I'll go abuse report some people with plywood builds, I find those pretty annoying too.



Most new sims don't allow that degree of terraforming. Besides, it has other problems... camera angles get goofy when your in dug-out pits.



I don't "own" my apartment either, but I could throw you out on your ass if you tried to come in without my permission.



There will be no breakthrough or success in this matter, until people learn to respect other people's privacy. See how that works?

By limiting the range and altitudes of security scripts they have given. I personally haven't seen any giving from the flyers.

Again.

What is being discussed cannot happen on your own property.

It simply cannot - the tools do not function there.

If you are having problems on your own land, it is not important to this discussion in any way at all. It is a completely seperate issue.

I agreed to an extra 15 meters of space around buildings, I agreed to a fifty meter travel floor, I agreed to not having signs, I agreed to let you keep your automated security and faux privacy in the first place.

I don't think I'm asking for all that much. I just want to be able to get to where I'm going without being ejected from my plane or TPed hom unexpectedly. I am not asking to have the chance to explore your private build, eavesdrop on your conversations, or film you in the midst of whatever it is you don't want me to see you do.

Not that even the most vicious-but-within-the-TOS security script would stop me from doing any of that were I sans-morals, mind you.

You shouldn't be campaigning to keep those scripts, you should be campaigning for effective land tools. Private plot tools, like being able to define a 250 meter "level" of your land that is invisible to others, refuses the entry of physical objects and unauthorised avatars, and ...

... just had an idea along thse lines. Give every plot a "pocket" space, perhaps above normal build height, that won't draw for anyone outside that space and ejects any avatar or returns any object not owned by an avatar explicitly allowed to be there. Add LSL commands to automate the access control list and give us the LSL command for P2P teleporting of an av and you have the perfect private area.

Meanwhile we try and cooperate on the use of the mainland - You stop assuming I'm a greifer when I'm flying by and I respect your privacy by heeding warnings to stay away. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

"pocket space" has been discussed before, but the lindens have never made any comment on it. I'm thinking it might not work well with the land-based paradigm that they currently use, but I don't know.

My plot of land was not very wide just long. All it took was for the wind to move me a little and could of over another's land. As I said, It happened so quickly did not have a chance to get details. Thus I could of "trespassed" over this fellows land my a few meters by mistake. My Tarn is not very large. Then his security script would have been effective.

I did make a proposal that would function...prop 999
http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=999



We can already do those things and more. This is a case of landowners with scripts giving in my mind on those points. If you can explain how a flyer truly 'give sup' soemthing on those points, feel free. But first heres the points you need to address.

Extra 15 meters around buildings: As it stands now, security can cover the whole lot.

No signs: No rule for us to have them currently.

Keeping automated security and faux security: You have no say in the matter on our land.

This is -not- an attack, merely me pointing out that it is the landowners and scripters who have given more rights to the flyers..not the other way around.

What rights have landowners given to flyers? As it stands now, the script using land owner can do anything they wish to the flyers. I really am having a hard time understanding. confused