Lets try to work out a solution for the Security Scripts Issue

I believe scripts require warning times as is, Darkness.. auto teles without warning are against the TOS I thought.

Might look into that when you get a chance. if its how I recall then you don't need a compromise (I spelled it right this time), just report the abuse when there is no warning.

The security should not have a limit in my opinion, as long as there is a build at the height. If they build at 600m they don't just assume the risk. They can keep security up to 40 m above their build, or the build ceiling.

All we pilots are asking for is a little consderation. If you land owners dont want me flying over your land that is FINE and I respect that, but if your only solution is to derez my Helicopter or send me back home that sucks big time. How about some kind of warning system letting me know you dont WANT me flying over your blessed lil plot of land and sky. Give me the option to fly around your land so that I can be respectfull and curtious and respect your wishes while you be curtious and respectfull of MY right to enjoy my SL experience as a pilot. As I said earlier, I dont want to land on your land and I amend that to add I dont even want to fly over it if you dont want me to. I do however request in as strong a way as I can that you respect my enjoyment of SL and give me a warning and the oppertunity to be respectfull and vector around your property. let me assure all land owners give me a warning, a sign, a way of knowing that you want me to fly around or way above your space and I and most other pilots will be happy to comply

The only thing we have been given is a set of suggested guidlines. And in fact those were given in response to a hotline post that I made about 8 months ago. They are not written in stone or included in TOS.

Warnings are an issue. If pressed I would have to say I have great issue with a 30 second warning on a ground level build. in 30 seconds the tresspasser can totally destroy any privacy of the landowner. Given my own druthers I would say its my land I can use any security I choose anywhere on or above it without warning. That however is not constructive and in the end will get all security banned from SL.

Hence I am trying to find a solution that is tolerable (or equally miserable as the case may be) to as many people as possible.

One perspective that is missing from this discussion is that of the security device manufacturers. I would appreciate any of them chiming in with some suggestions here.

I totally respect and appreciate what you are saying here. So how do we do this? Whats your best plan for accomplishing this?

The scripts should have warning times to my knowledge Boliver.

I may put a security script on my land (15 second warning minimum) at some point but the airstrip I hope to build will -never- have security or bans, save for against greifers I witness and those who make things uncomfortable to others.

I enjoy flying (I fly a tigershark from Terra Cubey mostly), I just also want a degree of 'virtual safety' on my land.

What is even the point of having security scripts running to keep people off you're land if you're not even on? Really? I do have land, and anyone is welcome to land there, look around, etc... Well except two of my neighbors who have tp home on their land, one of them with a 10 second warning, one with no warning. And considering I don't set home to that location... it's quite a pain to be teleported away if I accidentally cross the property line. I would much rather be bumped a m or two than be tp'd home.

I can only provide a reason from the perspective of my own RL family within SL and do not pretend to speak for anyone else on this. We have 2 reasons for security running when we are not there. Fore most is that several of our family members have been badly attacked in RL. They are recovering but sometimes just need the mental security of a place still online in SL they can bolt to when things get to be too much. having to eject unwanted guests and then turn on security would be too much for them at that point. The second reason is sometimes we like to leave our current projects out and do not want them viewed by the public.

Sounds like you may be one of the few people with a legitimate reason to run such scripts, AND a legitimate need for the genuinely private zone that Linden Labs doesn't provide.

As a side issue, though...

Security scripts that automatically turn on when privileged members arrive seem like such an obviously useful feature that I'm surprised it's not available.

Alas that really doesn't exist to my knowledge.

The best solution we found was working our butts off in SL to earn the money to buy a private island. businesses at ground level and 70m platform. Private space and homes (under a security script) at 140m.

The ideal solution would be 2 islands one totally hidden from view unfortunately we simply cannot afford that anytime soon.

edit
I might add we tride a sim size edge to edge platform without security for our homes. The result was a stranger deliberately using sit to get up there. This unfortunately caught a family member at a bad time and a panic attack causing them to be slammed with a nosebleed/migraine resulted. Just won't risk that again.

BAKA! BAKA! BAKA!

I am reading these messages there is no consideration for the flying residents of SL. The Security Landowners will not give a centimeter in this. They demand to have everything there own way. There was a suggestion of a flight corridor of 200-300 meters AGL but one of them said they might want to build there.



Understand this; our aircraft do not have the navigational instruments to allow us accurate navigation. Also without proper charts showing no fly zones it is impossible to avoid your land. Remember I AM A LANDOWNER TOO!



Can not see this issue being solved without Linden intervention. They are too afraid of offending either side to make a stand.



I don’t like getting unseated from my Tarn because of a security script. I will not keep quiet. Next the security landowners will an unlimited ceiling for their scripts. What is the point of flying when one is constantly assaulted?



I am willing to make concessions but will not give the other side everything they want. The flying community has needs too!! We pay money to Linden Labs since most of us are landowners.

I don't want to fly over your Island!! I want to make flights from my land and over the northern continant.

It seems to me that it shouldn't be hard to have the security script activate automatically when you get home.

That said, are you sure SL is the right choice for those people? I mean even with fancy shmancy security scripts and stuff, people can still IM them and whatnot. If someone is emotionally fragile enough that seeing another avatar is going to cause mental problems, then I'd suggest not going to an MMO at all.

Actually SL has been very good for them. Being Creative and then selling their creations has been a fantastic boost to their self worth. BUT this is all an aside to the actual point of the thread which is finding a compromise.

I never said you did. This is just the solution my family came up with after being hounded all over the grid.

What I am trying to do here in this thread is find a compromise among all interested parties. You have said you are willing to compromise. What concessions are you personally willing to give.

The other side is not willing to give up anything. I am willing to accept reasonable flight restructions that would allow me the joy of flying.

Earlier in this thread I put out a possible compromise.

0-100m security with or without warning
101-500 security with warning
over 500 no security

please provide your viewpoint on this

The fly on your own land. Theres no reason for the security script side to budge, they are well within their rights.



It isn't our duty to provide those tools. Go whine elsewhere.

edit: My secutiy script would not stop at 500 meters if I built above that. On this I will not budge.

Jonas please I am asking please lets keep this civil. Hostility is not conducive to constructive discussion.

It is hard to judge your above ground level. What is the highest elavation?

0 to 100 sounds ok, at 110 you still get a nice view of the countryside but how much warning? What type of a warning? How does the pilot know which way to safety?

Over 500, there is no point at all in flying, even with my scenery at max I get no countryside at all

I know that the Lindens have "protected areas". These with the above rules might work. They could serve as flight corridors and no land owner could object since they are above public land. Only problem is how to mark them so a pilot can follow these routes. If one of these gifted scripters could develop a program. In Rl there are VOR's at intersections of routes. You can use them to fly on the correct airway. Anyway it is the best I can think of.

The security landowners forget that many times I have seen a nice shop. Landed and made a purchase.

He is not willing to give and has resorted to name calling.

How much warning and what kind has not yet been discussed. What are your ideas on it?

10 seconds is plenty for the most landholdings. Even in my Tarn when moving will off of there land before that. A really large estate 15 would do. I dont think that any entire Sims are now no flight zones outside of Private Islands.

A countdown would be helpful. Note these would not apply to known Grifters. They can be engaged without warning.

This doesn't work. Normal unboosted flight settles down at around 70 meters, but you can find yourself skimming the top of the 40 meter redline zone in some sims and terrain. You don't even need to bring airplanes into it, this is just people normally flying from point to point over the land.

Also, I don't see why there's any reason to limit security scripts to any height you can build at. That seems like an unnecessary compromise on the part of the builders... particularly when sport flying is almost all below that altitude so it doesn't really win the fliers anything.

Lee Linden's guidelines are a good start, but for large parcels 10 seconds simply isn't long enough to get out of range if you're flying any kind of realistic vehicle. Scripts protecting open areas should have a significantly longer initial time limit. That's all I'm asking for, anyway.

This thread is rapidly becoming nonproducitve. Both sides are entrenching and it's only a matter of time until someone Godwins the thread.

I have only this to add: One of the biggest draws of Second Life is exploring the world. Unlike almost every other MMO on the market, you are given free reign to explore right from the start, and exploration is definatly encouraged (everybody gets free flight right from the start!). When reccomending the game to friends, the first (and most important) aspect I talk about is exploration and the absolutely enormous game world. There are beautiful objects (home and more) that people have built all over the world, but you'll never see and appreciate them unless you spend time flying around looking for them.

If the world becomes littered with security scripts, it discourages exploring and eventually stifles the game. Fortunatly, security scripts are still fairly rare in Second Life and it isn't a major problem yet, but I know if I were constantly being pushed, sent home, or whatnot I don't think I'd be in the game anymore. I know for sure I wouldn't have upgraded to premium.

It's much like real life actually. Sure you can put a chain link fence up around your home and leave attack dogs in there roaming the perimeter, but it's very unfriendly and don't expect to get a lot of sympathy from your neighbors when you have trouble. On this note: I must reitirate that if you have a security script, especially if it's up in the clouds, then you have NO room to complain about vehicles left on your land. More than half of the time when I'm ejected I have no idea even how to get back to where I was before I was ejected. If my plane is left on your property, well, sorry, i'm not going to risk getting hit by your script again to try to retrive it, if I can even find it again. You can return it when you get back home.

Also, if you have a timer on your security script, for the love of god make sure it actually works. There have been a few times where I get a warning and fly off, only to be returned home anyway even though I'm half a sim away. Also, be aware that many people may not be able to see where a warning is coming from if your script object hasn't finished rezzing yet.

Finally, before installing a security script, ask yourself if you really need it. Does it REALLY matter if someone can see that you have cuddle balls? Is the inside of your house so special that regular people would not be able to look at it without spontaneously orgasming? If you want a private conversation, is it really impossible to use IM (especiallyl since security scripts don't prevent your words from carrying)? Actaully, the same questions apply to the ban lines too. IMHO I think both are overused already. There are probably some people who really need them for one reason or another, but they should be rare.

I've been an avid pilot in SL for over a year now, and this has been an issue since day 1. My proposed policy:

1. The ban lines need to be higher, perhaps 100m above the highest point of the plot. That would solve the issue of people on mountain tops, and would satisfy most folks. If this was done, there should be no need for automated security scripts of any kind from ground level to the top of the ban lines.

2. From 100m to 250-300m AGL, there should be no security scripts of any kind, or ban lines. This altitude is designated as public space, and avatars should be able to pass via unaided flight. If you have a build taller than 100m, put the protected stuff at the bottom. Any structures in this zone would be considered public.

3. Anything above that can be considered fair game, as long as the security scripts obey the following rules: Minimum 30 second warning for a first "offense" with clear indication of where it's coming from, can only eject, cannot extend more than 10m outside the protected structure (applies only laterally if structure has no roof).

4. Any security script that doesn't strictly conform to the rules should be punished swiftly and harshly, a week suspension for a first offense and so forth. This is to discourage the use of non-compliant scripts and [hopefully] get them out of circulation.

I have no problem with securing one's skybox, as long as that security does not interfere with the right-of-way of aircraft and pedestrians. Anyone in an aircraft should be allowed to pass through any plot. If anyone REALLY has a problem with aircraft passing through their airspace (seems silly to me, but whatever), perhaps we can reach some sort of gentlemen's agreement, like labeling the plot as a no-fly zone clearly in the parcel name, or put up signs or automated IMs. No one should ever be attacked for merely flying by, though, unless they stop to snoop without the land owner's permission.

And, perhaps we as aviators can put together some information on no-fly zones, safe flight vectors, etc. We already have someone compiling a list of airports, I'd like to see that sort of info-sharing extended to other aspects of flying to make it more enjoyable for all of us.