Lets try to work out a solution for the Security Scripts Issue

I called noone names, learn to read.

I merely saiid quit whining.



Many would sell their land. LL loses money. if its not mine and its public, I would sell and not own land, and not pay tier.

edit: on a side note I would continually clutter any airway as such up with one prim objects it would be impossible to fly. I wouldn't be a greifer since its my parcel.

Then the unboosted flight level needs to be higher. Same with the 100-300m "public space", because normal unaided flight is lower than 100m and you can't even get to 300m without a boost script.

On the other hand this is not good enough for the landowner. Normal chat carried 20 meters, so someone sitting outside this 10m limit is eavesdropping.

The limits of normal chat suggest a better metric for recommended minimums:

1. ban lines are already higher than 20m, but they should be extended to at least 25 meters above the highest ground inside the ban area, so even a tall avatar standing on the ground can't be overheard without special scripting.

2. Within the limits of the parcel, scripts can act up to 25 meters from the surface of any protected object.

Also:

3. It must be obvious how an avatar in unboosted flight can get out of range within the time limit of the script from any part of the protected volume.

4. There's got to be a good reason for any script that operates when there's no permitted avatars in the volume. That way it would be reasonable to expect that avoiding green dots on the mini map would keep you safe.

I thought unaided flight could go 250m up? I don't have the client open at the moment, so I'll take your word for it. And putting it that way, 20-30m sounds reasonable. I was mostly pulling numbers from my head to use as guidelines. The ceiling for unaided flight should be increased, too

And Jonas, the point of this thread is to resolve the debate, not continue it. Could we please try to keep this contructive rather than confrontational? This is what happened to the other thread, some good suggestions were made, and disregarded because people were too busy getting upset at each other.

I completely agree with felix's propsal I tihnk it is fair and balanced as to Jonas you are the type of person I tried to avoid in Rl as well as SL your type of thinking is why people get hurt in RL I truly and warmly and with great concern urge you to get mas mucho help with you issues my friend.

If you lean on the "up" key you can force yourself to fly at the ceiling all the time, but if you're just flying around or using mouselook that's really inconvenient. If you don't do that, you gradually rise or sink to something like 40-70 meters.

if the 40m ban lines were actually 40m above the actual highest point of the terrain a 40-50m limit would be fair. As they are now they are woefully inadequate on many terrains and do not protect even a 1 story structure.

This is an emotional topic on both sides of the issue of Privacy/Security.

Those who have been trying to enjoy the vastness of Second Life via exploration are immensely frustrated by having to contend with land mines along the way.

Likewise, there are those who are frustrated with interruptions while dilligently working on a project. Or want to share some private time with someone they've met in our virtual world. Or simply feel safe from non-benevolent intruders among a population that grows larger every day.

IMHO, all of these needs are important, and none of them needs to be at the price of the rest.

Proposition 244, which was acknowledged by Linden back in November, asks for residents to be provided enhanced, fully delegate-able (without groups) Parcel Tools designed to combat grief, and render security scripts unneccesary.

While this proposal was written with proactive anti-grief measures in mind, the Linden comments are what are most relative to this thread:



Emphasis mine. Linden already understands that the land parcel tools that we have today need work, and they are going to change.

Hopefully once that happens, folks wont need to rely upon security scripts in order to secure their area, or get their privacy. And hopefully it will be done in a completely Linden-sanctioned way - so explorers can do what they enjoy. If we can get there, both sides of this argument have the potential to get exactly what they both want.

"whining" if not name calling is an insult.

I am suppose to stay put on my land and pay tier and not get the full benifits? You are suppose to have your way? What about us the aviators? We can pull out just as easy and cost Linden Labs money. You sir are not the only important residents in SL.

The fact you just want to block the airways in any way possible betrays you real intentions.

I asked Travis to post the details of his proposal both because it has been aknowledged and will in part or whole be implemented and in part because I think it offers yet another viewpoint on the issue being discussed in this thread. I do ask all of you to read the proposal and if you have something to add comment on it in light of previous discussion in this thread.

These post are going no where.

The security script land owners will accept nothing but full victory. I will not accept total defeat. I am just as good as they are and will not accept being treated as a second class resident.

I think seperation is best, the paronoid can have their own continent and the explorers can have ours. That way everone can be content.

Do you know I could possibly hear the people in the lots next to mine if I go to the edge of my lot? does this give them the right to focre me to stay back 20 meters from the edge of my property? What about public land?

Where does the right for absolute privacy and protection end? Will the next demand be to get rid of the landless or force them to stay in the "welcome" centers?

It was mentioned in other thread that perhaps it is time for LL to create more void sims not water voids but land void sims frozen tundreas great wooded forests even savanahs and jungle terrain that would remain open for all to hike in or fly thru. While this in no way solves the issue of how to balance land owners rights and aviators rights it would be an a amazing place(s) to fly thu and would give us avitors some place to have enjoy much as I as a yacht captain enjoy sailing my schooner the infinite vision thru the void seas

I will also, not be treated as a second class citizen. being told what I can put on my land, between certian altitudes, is making me feel like a second class citizen. So I will, if that happens, place a large artistic display with translucents there. I will be adding to the aerial landscape- feel free to fly around my property to view it.

So you are right and I am wrong? How about buying an Island if you have so much land and make it private? Then you will not impose yourself on others. If you dont have enough money how about sharing an island with like minded people. No flight except over your own land.

Some of your ideas risk you getting suspended from sl and maybe expelled. I have been making suggestions. Did you know that we all share the world with each other and never have our own way on everthing. I will not have it my way 100% and neither will you. I am willing to comprimise but you are not.

Here is a big hole in that theory. I have been nailed at 2000 meters.

Rox

I can't be suspended or expelled for putting objects in the airspace of my own parcel that I pay tier for provided it is not blatantly offensive. Fantasy images are not offensive.



I can put almost anything I want on my land- and thats what I want. I don't need to compromise.

Roxie, I don't understand that then..since it shouldn't be any higher than 900 meter including scan range

This thread was started for open honest discussion and for people to work together on a compromise. Compromise means everyone makes some concessions.

Sniping at each other and insisiting on ones own way is not compromise and is counter to the intent of this thread and the constructive dialog that it does contain.Please if you are unwilling to compromise then state your position ONCE and after that leave it alone. We will understand that this IS your postion.

What about me buying up all of the land around yours and placing barriers that prevent you from leaving? It is my land right? That is your arugument!

Think this thread should be closed. Talking is doing no good at all. I will never give in and neither will he.

Ranma, actually

1- buying all the land around soemthing and preventing access is directly agaisnt the TOS, as stated in another thread.

2- most of the land around me is owned by a close rl friend. Good luck

Actually Ranma talking is doing some good. Alot of very good ideas have been presented in this thread. I hope to have a revised proposal sometime tomorrow as I am compiling those ideas now and looking for middle ground.

Jonas is baiting you and trying to sidetrack what we are trying to do here. My best advice is to ignore him and continue helping us find a solution.

Feel free to ignore me Darkness, but I'm not trying to bait anyone. In any case my land will remain no fly over my private home if any change to current land/air policy is made.

I have offered to make consessions. Also about ideas to avoid flying over other peoples land like Public Airways over Public land. It would need Linden help to make work. It is just that we do not own the space above our land from 0 meters to infinity. We need Linden input and help on this! I am apealing for Linden intervention! I am apealing for the TOS to be enforced against those abusing it and Grifting on other residents!

There are a lot of others who feel like Me. How many have left second life because it has become a hostile place?

We -do- own from 0 meters to 768 though


Fly over us..its easy

Jonas I have never said this about anyone Rl or Sl but I would be willing to risk suspention for up to a month to land a tactical nuke on your land -people like you make me sick and while I defend you rights and your right to be a jerk I sure hope you learn to shut up.

a nuke won't wipe anything away, just get yourself hurt.

I object to changes in the polciy of 'rights' over land..to dictate that all poeple have to let people fly through, especially under 500m, is treating them like second class citizens. Make the freefly zone 500+ meters and I would compromise