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1.11.0=Complete Disaster

Zoe Llewelyn
Asylum Inmate
Join date: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 502
07-22-2006 15:04
A "rollback" is not really a valid option here. A rollback is actually reinstating the sims to the exact state they existed before the update. After days that is not gonna happen, and shouldn't.

What should be done for now and should be fully possible is to reissue the previous version, let us all redownload and install the client as it was before this version and do the same on the servers. Reverting to a previous version is usually possible. Rollingbback to a preious backup state is extreme and not a good option.

The only reason a rollback should really everr be considered over a reversion is if data has been corrupted somehow by the bugs introduced. In that case, reversion is no longer gonna solve the issues and rollback is the only possibility. But as far as I know we are not sufferring from any data corruption issues...
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Phedre Aquitaine
I am the zombie queen
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,157
07-22-2006 15:13
I want to know if there are any Lindens even bothering to read this, honestly.

I don't have a lot of hope that they are, at this point. :(
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From: Billybob Goodliffe
everyone loves phedre
(excluding chickens), its in the TOS :D
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
07-22-2006 15:17
If they do Phedre, at least me and Zoe agreed on a version reinstall, no matter how much more technical hers sounded. :P

Only benefits from last update/downgrade:

People united in bitching

Watching morons say LL did a great job
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Linada MacKay
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 29
07-22-2006 15:20
Well, if they know anything about MOs then they know most stuff goes on in general forums, no amtter how many feedback or suggestion forums you may have, so if they don't have someone at least skimming this then..................
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
07-22-2006 15:21
From: Linada MacKay
Well, if they know anything about MOs then they know most stuff goes on in general forums, no amtter how many feedback or suggestion forums you may have, so if they don't have someone at least skimming this then..................


Usually its Torley.
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Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Phedre Aquitaine
I am the zombie queen
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,157
07-22-2006 15:26
Cripes, just /building/ has been damned near impossible for me, because the prims keep jittering away no matter what I'm doing! I'm not even going into how many textures I have to wade through to make something match, and I'm absolute disgusted by the fact that LL broke texture picking functionality while giving us a dipsh*t little dropper.

W. T. F.

When I fidget in SL it's in the form of building, but I've built ONE thing - ONE - since the update, and a job that would have taken me five minutes to complete instead took an hour because of the utter USELESSNESS of this update.

The new chat functionality is crap. The camera movement has been giving me headaches since day one.

I don't give a flyer at a rolling donut about the popping pie menu. It's cute. IT'S NOT WHAT WE F*CKING NEED.

I've been here since New Year's and I've watched SL go to hell on an express train made of wicker. Stop giving us toys. Give us the functionality we've lost. FIX the bugs.

Address the problems we have instead of slapping cutely-patterned bandaids over the wounds.
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From: Billybob Goodliffe
everyone loves phedre
(excluding chickens), its in the TOS :D
Jennyfur Peregrine
Whatever
Join date: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,151
07-22-2006 15:38
I have to say that I am a bit non-plussed by this update among other things.

I haven't seen everything in full force yet, but the snapshot tool is now total crap. I see what they were trying to do with it and generally like the features in the box, but why in hell does your whole screen flash white, go blurry and stay blurry until you chose what you want to do from the menu box. Being a designer and all, this makes it almost completely unmanageable to take snapshots. I guess for the time being I will just do normal alt printscreen shots and copy and paste them into a PSD.

A lot of these decisions leave me scratching my head. I usually support most of what LL does knowing that they have the users best interests at heart. Lately, it just seems like they are blinging out the grid and making poor choices at the behest of some invenstors or to meet some endgame result that no one is fully aware of yet.

Regards,
Jennyfur
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Zoe Llewelyn
Asylum Inmate
Join date: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 502
07-22-2006 15:39
From: Jonas Pierterson
...at least me and Zoe agreed...


I fear the End of the World is Near...

*laughs*
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Inigo Chamerberlin
Registered User
Join date: 13 May 2006
Posts: 448
07-22-2006 15:42
I can understand the requests for a rollback. And I can also see the problems that might be caused by one at this point.

Two points though. Firstly, I thought there was a rollback within an hour or two of the first release of 1.11?
Secondly, isn't the main reason for a version rollback not being carried out that items may have been edited/created inworld using build/script functions not available in the previous version? So, what new build/script functions were introduced with 1.11?
I can't really think of any, it's all UI froth and fancy as far as I can see, except possibly the higher capacity ban lists.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
07-22-2006 17:10
Add this bug to the list of breaking changes:

/139/6d/123268/1.html
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
07-22-2006 17:31
I'm looking foreward to the group changes and the restriction on push. But i must agree i dislike 1.11. Only good thingi found out of it was the increase on bans. Even though they never touched the estate ban list.. Which is what i needed increased.
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Luthien Unsung
Registered User
Join date: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 409
07-22-2006 17:39
From: Cristiano Midnight
It seems that the trend of pushy shoddy, half thought out functionality out the door quickly for no apparent reason did not end with the inventory window problems. After all kinds of assurances that they have an improved development process and quality testing, we have the single worst update since version 1.5. How is this progress, honestly? I am all for saying thank you and praising the Lindens when they do something right, but this complete mess of an update is fucking inexcuseable. To highlight the severity of what is wrong:

* An estate tool bug that allowed all scripted items in the sim to be inadvertantly returned, destroying the sim (at least they have resolved this quickly).

* An eyedropper tool that allows content theft. While not at first apparent how to do this, it is actually quite easy.

* A bug that causes group members to become officers, exposing the group to having their land sold and builds destroyed.

* A widely panned new snapshot tool that is a giant step backward in usability. It seems time was put into adding stupid, nauseating effects and flashy features like a Matrix-freeze frame zoom system, but that no thought was given to how people actually use snapshots or to hiding any of the complexity at all. You can no longer take a series of snapshots in rapid succession until you get the right picture, something that you could easily do before.

* A gratuitous change in the way the enter key behaves with the chat window, causing people to jump in the air because the chat window is unexpectedly closed

* Script problems that broke existing objects.

* A texture picker that now makes it extremely difficult to actually apply textures to objects. Again, a giant usability step backward (though you did get the bonus of being able to steal any texture).

* Pointless UI changes like detachable menus and changes to pie menus so that they fade in.

There is probably a lot more, but this list is enough. There are several show stopping, serious bugs on the list. I recognize the complexity of updating SL at this point, but there is absolutely no excuse for the poor quality of this update. We as customers deserve better than this, and Linden Lab should be ashamed for shoving this out the door so quickly without more extensive testing. God help us with the 1.12 update, which has dramatic changes to group functionality. If it is treated as poorly as 1.11 was, then who knows what will be broken.

Philip Linden has talked extensively about Linden Lab's development process, and how they use a system called the Love Machine. Note to Philip: it's not fucking working. You can't just let people do what they want on a whim, but apparently, that is how the development is handled. A Magic 8 ball would be more effective at this point. I know there are all kinds of improvments that SL needs and that it is a balancing act trying to figure out what to do next and what the priorities are, but there is a single priority that is more important than anything else: STOP BREAKING THINGS THAT ALREADY WORKED FINE. Until you can figure that one out, perhaps you should hold off of wasting time on detachable menus and gee-wiz camera effects. The customers of Linden Lab deserve better than the Russian Roulette updates you keep shoving out the door in rapid succession.


To think it was all on purpose..
You have to wonder if they don't have some kind of undercover mole working within Linden Lab..
to have such a rogue almost (seemingly deliberate) broken update released to the general public of SL, surely it has to be something as daft as this?
Alex Fitzsimmons
Resu Deretsiger
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,605
07-22-2006 17:40
From: Jonas Pierterson
I've been saying shut the gate to new 'shinies' and put ALL the developers on fixing bugs since before 1.9. But no, I was a 'whiner.'

Just a harmless li'l bunny isn't it?


Oh, nonononono, don't even go there. Don't try to compare this update and the complaints against it with the meaningless bitching at actually very nice additions like flexi prims and light-generating objects. Granted, more effort on bug fixes may be nice, but that notwithstanding, those updates didn't actually break existing features while simultaneously adding no value whatsoever, which is what this one has done.

Don't compare this to the whining that's gone on in the past because that cheapens it by association. This is a real, legitimate gripe that people who've defended LL repeatedly in the past, such as myself, are also angry about. This is a real problem.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
07-22-2006 18:00
Nah fuck it - I WILL go there.

Flexi prims and light objects and water ripply and all that rot - and yet a deeded object returned will STILL go to the creator - even though I was personally told that was fixed.

Hell even the 'shiney's don't even get finished properly - look at the camera controls for instance - shoddy and half finished.. even for the some of the things they were touted as being for (machinima) they are woefully inadequate and half arsed.

The current dev mode is really just making a lot of these things worse and worse as time goes on. The method of letting someone work on what they want until it's 'not fun' (that is to say a stumbling block or bug is encountered) at which point they go onto the 'next cool idea' is introducing more and more bugs while the older problems are not being fixed at all - because they are 'not fun'

Sorry - but someone at some point has to do the grunt work and do the ever increasing 'not fun' stuff in Second Life... thats life....

Andrews BLOTTD should read:

Fix bugs.






And thats about it atm.
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Alex Fitzsimmons
Resu Deretsiger
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,605
07-22-2006 18:08
From: Siggy Romulus
Nah fuck it - I WILL go there.

Flexi prims and light objects and water ripply and all that rot - and yet a deeded object returned will STILL go to the creator - even though I was personally told that was fixed.

Hell even the 'shiney's don't even get finished properly - look at the camera controls for instance - shoddy and half finished.. even for the some of the things they were touted as being for (machinima) they are woefully inadequate and half arsed.

The current dev mode is really just making a lot of these things worse and worse as time goes on. The method of letting someone work on what they want until it's 'not fun' (that is to say a stumbling block or bug is encountered) at which point they go onto the 'next cool idea' is introducing more and more bugs while the older problems are not being fixed at all - because they are 'not fun'

Sorry - but someone at some point has to do the grunt work and do the ever increasing 'not fun' stuff in Second Life... thats life....

Andrews BLOTTD should read:

Fix bugs.






And thats about it atm.


I guess that's where we differ. I didn't find anything spectacularly wrong until this update. It began here as far as I'm concerned -- here and no sooner than here, and it's important to me that that distinction is clear because I'm specifically not throwing in with the "everything LL ever does is bad because there are some bugs that still exist" crowd.

My issue is only with the fact that this update specifically both added nothing while breaking several things. I've never before seen an update strictly make the game worse (not counting the awkwardness right after the update).
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"Whatever the astronomers finally decide, I think Xena should be considered the enemy planet." - io Kukalcan
Luthien Unsung
Registered User
Join date: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 409
07-22-2006 18:20
From: Phedre Aquitaine
Cripes, just /building/ has been damned near impossible for me, because the prims keep jittering away no matter what I'm doing! I'm not even going into how many textures I have to wade through to make something match, and I'm absolute disgusted by the fact that LL broke texture picking functionality while giving us a dipsh*t little dropper.

W. T. F.

When I fidget in SL it's in the form of building, but I've built ONE thing - ONE - since the update, and a job that would have taken me five minutes to complete instead took an hour because of the utter USELESSNESS of this update.

The new chat functionality is crap. The camera movement has been giving me headaches since day one.

I don't give a flyer at a rolling donut about the popping pie menu. It's cute. IT'S NOT WHAT WE F*CKING NEED.

I've been here since New Year's and I've watched SL go to hell on an express train made of wicker. Stop giving us toys. Give us the functionality we've lost. FIX the bugs.

Address the problems we have instead of slapping cutely-patterned bandaids over the wounds.



I flatly refuse to build another thing until they at the VERY LEAST fix the texture picker!
There are many weeks I work 72 and 84 hrs in rl I do not have time for that crap!
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
07-22-2006 18:21
From: Alex Fitzsimmons
I guess that's where we differ. I didn't find anything spectacularly wrong until this update. It began here as far as I'm concerned -- here and no sooner than here, and it's important to me that that distinction is clear because I'm specifically not throwing in with the "everything LL ever does is bad because there are some bugs that still exist" crowd.

My issue is only with the fact that this update specifically both added nothing while breaking several things. I've never before seen an update strictly make the game worse (not counting the awkwardness right after the update).


To say that nothing bad happened until now is both inaccurate and incredibly naive.

I'm not saying 'everything that LL does is bad' I'm saying that time wasted with lil gumdrops and half implimented features whilst long standing problems have existed since 1.0 shows that the 'love machine' development model simply isn't working.

To some extent what has happened on this update has happened to a lesser or greater extent on every single update.

How about a few updates ago when there was the battle of the way that permissions for animations were handled - simply so that camera controls could be forced out the door -- THAT would have broken a lot of existing content had folks not voiced their opinions.. and it became obvious during the course of that discussion that things were changed ONLY to make it easier to throw that new feature into the update (and that one wasn't even put ON the preview - that change was appended on day of change).

That would have broken content the breadth of the grid.

MY point - and I think the point made before was that the method of letting folks choose the cool stuff they want to work on is increasing the number of faults in the system - and seeing faults aren't fun to fix, they're not... until they lapse into a series of 'workarounds' and 'well thats the way it is in SL'.

And if they want to include nifty fun features - well how abouts starting with ones that are actually usefull.. to this date (for as long as I've been here) an attachment still can't rotate an avatar.... or other bits that have been promised...
How about custom avatar overiding in the UI - something that SHOULD have been done with the inclusion of custom animations in 1.4.

Instead we have far reaching 'wowsers!' additions - whilst old problems remain.

Thats the crux of what I'm saying - and I believe what Jonas is also saying.

Folks can dismiss that with a 'oh you think everything they do is bad' - but in doing that you miss what I think is a very valid point about whats not working in SL on a fundemental level.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.

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I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
07-22-2006 18:29
It seems being able to "brag" that they introduce weekly "updates" is more important to LL than whether the changes made benefit SL users or whether they even work.

This reminds me of a group of interns sitting around a table brainstorming for fancy bells and whistles ideas so they can impress their boss into offering them a full time job upon graduation. I wonder how many ideas introduced in this update are actually the product of a Linden who really uses the SL tools and interface and how many were devised by someone who spends no time inside SL actually using these gems.

I used to jump in the air when I chatted in 2003 and was grateful to finally stop. Now I am jumping again. The other issues such as the snapshot taking up the entire screen and the seizure inducing flash effects are incredibly annoying.

It's time to fix problems such as stopping the scroll to the top in inventory after events such as deleting a prim inworld or dragging contents to into inventory rather than give us flashing pie menus and other problems.
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Cilis Nephilim
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 273
07-22-2006 19:00
ANOTHER MAJOR BUG!

Try editing attachments and hitting undo!

Holy crap... I seriously got bitched at by three club owners because I magically caused their object to move to the north west sim corner....


I can repeat this trick all I want, having no rights to the object and even if locked, it will FLY to the sim corner.

To do it, just edit an attachment, use edit linked parts, move the parent prim, resize it, hit undo twice...

Nine times out of 10, you'll be underground in the north corner of the sim and the object you sat on with you.
Axel Truss
ssurT lexA
Join date: 2 Feb 2006
Posts: 251
07-22-2006 19:33
Dont Roll Back!
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MANIC CASINO!
Caroline Apollo
Lo Lo
Join date: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 288
07-22-2006 19:52
I rarely ever complain about updates and just deal with it. But this last one is really messed up. I've sent in MANY bug and crash reports.

The whole texure/color pickers are a complete mess. All of my saved colors are gone and I cannot save a new one without crashing. I cannot even use the color dropper, I crash. When I want to select a texture, the window opens up every single file with a snapshot or texture in it.

Everyone's objects not grouped have been returned on my land except mine. I still have over 200 prims left and they were only using about 15 of them. And yes, the land is set to No Return where these objects were. (this has gone on since last year).

The snapshop tool.. I would Love the option to use the old way. All I am getting is blur.

Starax's wand is broken and everything else Cristiano mentioned.

I don't think a rollback is the answer, but fixing these or returning the issues to their old state would be great.
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
07-22-2006 19:52
From: Cilis Nephilim
just edit an attachment, use edit linked parts, move the parent prim, resize it, hit undo twice...

I tried this and it doesn't seem to cause any trouble.
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Katrina Tandino
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 11
Rollback Now!!!!
07-22-2006 20:02
ROLLBACK THIS NOW!!!! PEOPLE CAN'T EVEN CONNECT TO SIMULATORS CUZ OF THIS UPDATE!!!! I've made 2 new avi since this update cuz I can't log on my regular avi. And AGAIN tonight I made a new one, crashed...and tried going back..."Cannot connect to a simulator" Atleast you ppl can connect...I have an avatar who holds all my belongings, my land, my SL babies are coming from her and I can't log on her. Something somewhere fawked up bad on LL's part cuz I was able to log into my rl roomie's acct fine from my computer. Adam Linden insisted it's on my end...it's NOT! ROLL THIS DAM UPDATE BACK!!!! *is livid right now*
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
07-22-2006 20:12
From: Alex Fitzsimmons
Oh, nonononono, don't even go there. Don't try to compare this update and the complaints against it with the meaningless bitching at actually very nice additions like flexi prims and light-generating objects. Granted, more effort on bug fixes may be nice, but that notwithstanding, those updates didn't actually break existing features while simultaneously adding no value whatsoever, which is what this one has done.

Don't compare this to the whining that's gone on in the past because that cheapens it by association. This is a real, legitimate gripe that people who've defended LL repeatedly in the past, such as myself, are also angry about. This is a real problem.


The old ones were real problems too. Real, legitimate gripes. Comparing them with this one cheapens nothing.
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Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Zuleica Sartre
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 105
07-22-2006 20:16
And at LEAST have an 'eyedropper' tool work intuitively...

You FIRST pick up the color/texture THEN you drop it onto the target. You all have it bass-half-ackwards.
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