1.11.0=Complete Disaster
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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07-22-2006 13:15
From: Tre Giles Troll, thats what they called me for continually asking and telling LL to STOP ADDING THE BELLS AND WHISTLES TO THE GAME, WE DON'T WANT THEM YET, WE DON'T NEED THEM YET. Been sayin' it for a while, now who's the Troll? I would be fine with bells and whistles if they were not also breaking stuff at the same time and messing with functionality that did not need updating. They can't just go into bug fix mode endlessly with no features, the platform with stagnate. However, the random nature of what they are adding is no way to steer the development of such a complex product - it is wreckless and irresponsible, and the results are shown starkly by this update.
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Soleil Mirabeau
eh?
Join date: 6 Oct 2005
Posts: 995
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07-22-2006 13:20
Who came up with these ideas? We need names to we can burn them at the stake.
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Tyken Hightower
Automagical
Join date: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 472
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07-22-2006 13:33
Update sucks. Thanks.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-22-2006 13:46
From: ZsuZsanna Raven Yeah I saw that too, guess I won't be buying a wand anytime soon  They broke the wand??? I don't even HAVE a wand! I can't AFFORD a wand! But I hate it that they broke it! I'm entirely in accord with Cristiano's post. I would add to this the psychological effects of it all (as I'm wont to do). . An update that makes you dread logging on isn't progress. . Making things harder for builders isn't progress. (This is why I so would like a builders' union!) coco
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Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
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07-22-2006 13:49
From: Cristiano Midnight It seems that the trend of pushy shoddy, half thought out functionality out the door quickly for no apparent reason did not end with the inventory window problems. After all kinds of assurances that they have an improved development process and quality testing, we have the single worst update since version 1.5. How is this progress, honestly? I am all for saying thank you and praising the Lindens when they do something right, but this complete mess of an update is fucking inexcuseable. To highlight the severity of what is wrong:
* An estate tool bug that allowed all scripted items in the sim to be inadvertantly returned, destroying the sim (at least they have resolved this quickly).
* An eyedropper tool that allows content theft. While not at first apparent how to do this, it is actually quite easy.
* A bug that causes group members to become officers, exposing the group to having their land sold and builds destroyed.
* A widely panned new snapshot tool that is a giant step backward in usability. It seems time was put into adding stupid, nauseating effects and flashy features like a Matrix-freeze frame zoom system, but that no thought was given to how people actually use snapshots or to hiding any of the complexity at all. You can no longer take a series of snapshots in rapid succession until you get the right picture, something that you could easily do before.
* A gratuitous change in the way the enter key behaves with the chat window, causing people to jump in the air because the chat window is unexpectedly closed
* Script problems that broke existing objects.
* A texture picker that now makes it extremely difficult to actually apply textures to objects. Again, a giant usability step backward (though you did get the bonus of being able to steal any texture).
* Pointless UI changes like detachable menus and changes to pie menus so that they fade in.
There is probably a lot more, but this list is enough. There are several show stopping, serious bugs on the list. I recognize the complexity of updating SL at this point, but there is absolutely no excuse for the poor quality of this update. We as customers deserve better than this, and Linden Lab should be ashamed for shoving this out the door so quickly without more extensive testing. God help us with the 1.12 update, which has dramatic changes to group functionality. If it is treated as poorly as 1.11 was, then who knows what will be broken.
Philip Linden has talked extensively about Linden Lab's development process, and how they use a system called the Love Machine. Note to Philip: it's not fucking working. You can't just let people do what they want on a whim, but apparently, that is how the development is handled. A Magic 8 ball would be more effective at this point. I know there are all kinds of improvments that SL needs and that it is a balancing act trying to figure out what to do next and what the priorities are, but there is a single priority that is more important than anything else: STOP BREAKING THINGS THAT ALREADY WORKED FINE. Until you can figure that one out, perhaps you should hold off of wasting time on detachable menus and gee-wiz camera effects. The customers of Linden Lab deserve better than the Russian Roulette updates you keep shoving out the door in rapid succession. Hi Cris - a little birdie told me about the latest update. Well all I have to say is this: 'Oh for fucks sake, you bitch and moan... ...to bash LL as being a bunch of idiots who have no idea what they are doing is honestly just ridiculous... ...They have incredibly talented developers who are building a unified platform on three different OSes. Their executive team is also pretty amazing as well... I don't know why the hell you stay in SL' Recognise that fanboy? Well now I guess the boot's on the other foot isn't it? When people tried to kick LL's ass and get them to realise they were screwing up virtually everything they touched - YOU didn't like it one little bit. Now LL have shown you just what they can do, well, surprise, surprise - YOU don't like THAT one little bit either.  Just no satisfying some people is there? I've rarely seen such a delightful outcome so quickly - it's really made me hugely happy. I must say I expected to have to wait a lot longer to be able to drop by and find things in this sort of mess - just shows my decision to cash out and leave (long before you and the rest of the LL fan club advised me in such gracious terms to go) was spot on. However, I might just drop in and have a look in a couple of weeks and see how bad this 1.12 update I see they are threatening you with for next week turns out. Now, do try not to criticise LL too much Cris, and do remember 'Philip is one of the most engaging and intelligent people I've ever spoken with.' - so everything really can't be THAT bad, can it? ROFL! Bye now, take care, and DO stop bitching and moaning, you aren't that good at it sweetheart...
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All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
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Inigo Chamerberlin
Registered User
Join date: 13 May 2006
Posts: 448
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07-22-2006 13:51
Too bad my man - still, it's saved me 20k+
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Cory Edo
is on a 7 second delay
Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
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07-22-2006 13:55
From: Cocoanut Koala They broke the wand??? I don't even HAVE a wand! I can't AFFORD a wand! But I hate it that they broke it! What the kicker really is that the reason it broke wasn't even in the release notes. From: Andrew Linden This is indeed an undocumented new feature of 1.11. The tragedy is that I wrote up the release notes for it, submitted them, and someone didn't add them to the list. "Someone didn't add them to the list". If these are the same someones that didn't check on reported bugs in the preview grid, and bypassed any feedback on the snapshot system, and let such a ridiculous bug as the texture theft one into the live grid, then I hope to god that < personally edited for unbecoming conduct>. This update is sloppy as hell. I still think 1.5 barely beats this one out, if only for the fact that a grid you can't log into at all is slightly worse than one that's busted all to hell and back.
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Nogard Codesmith
Second Life Resident
Join date: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 191
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another "agreed"
07-22-2006 13:55
I usually defend LL to my less than technical friends. Every update i explain how code is a complex thing, and every update will always break *something*, and how they will have it fixed soon and it will be better than before.
With this update however, i can't make a good defense. It broke too much and more importantly, changed things that SHOULD NOT have been changed.
I'm not asking for a rollback... i don't think that is a possibility, but PLEASE LL, *STOP* adding things nobody asked for. You have a huge list of features that people actaully want. Please stick to that list when considering new "shiney".
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VolatileWhimsy Bu
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,492
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07-22-2006 13:59
I know that updates are just something you have to live with, and bugs, and glitches. But I seem to be having an awful amount of them  I've had to quit the game several times and restart it. Now I can't seem to log in, its stuck, I mean really stuck, for like several minutes.. No fun, I wanted to work on my garden!! darnit!!!
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Nephilaine Protagonist
PixelSlinger
Join date: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 1,693
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07-22-2006 14:09
agreed. the bugs in this update have made the creative end of SL unenjoyable...that's problematic when you consider "enjoyability" as the primary reason to stick around and keep making stuff. good post, cristiano. i hope the Powers That Be are listening to the frustration in this thread. personally, im out of here for a while. pushing a real brush across canvas is looking nice and stable and FUN, compared to how cludgy and bugged the in world tools have become. sad. as bad as some updates have been in the past, that's never been the case prior to now.
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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07-22-2006 14:19
From: Nephilaine Protagonist agreed. the bugs in this update have made the creative end of SL unenjoyable...that's problematic when you consider "enjoyability" as the primary reason to stick around and keep making stuff. good post, cristiano. i hope the Powers That Be are listening to the frustration in this thread. personally, im out of here for a while. pushing a real brush across canvas is looking nice and stable and FUN, compared to how cludgy and bugged the in world tools have become. sad. as bad as some updates have been in the past, that's never been the case prior to now. Yeah, it'd be really nice if they sat down and stopped breaking the tools that many folks now rely on for their livelihood. Fix the f*cking content creation bugs, at least. Kthx.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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07-22-2006 14:20
From: Doc Nielsen Bye now, take care, and DO stop bitching and moaning, you aren't that good at it sweetheart... I stand by everything I said to you. If the best you can do is call me a fanboy and dredge up quotes, then bring it on. You had been posting ad naseum for months about how stupid LL was, how this, how that, complaining over and over and over about how badly everything affected YOU and that LL were just all morons. I definitely would not want to be considered good at bitching and moaning, so thanks for the compliment. You, however, are a pro. Amazing how those who claim to leave never really stay gone, or that anyone can take glee and revel in other people being unhappy.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Linada MacKay
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 29
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07-22-2006 14:21
\signed
I do realise code is hard work, and manageing a large team working on different bits is even harder work, but come on, this is fubared. I am amazed at the amount of problems i have and i havn't touched snapshots yet.
My Personal number 1 grief is the messed up colours. Black chat is very hard to read, and now i can't even change it.....well done.
Comparing it to the other MMO i play is like comparing Canary Warf to a cardboard box. Features are only ever developed due to need from the player community. There are several features coming for release that are a direct result of the community. The graphics are 3 years old, and still state of the art, nevertheless they are getting an upgrade....and omg do the previews look yummy. Severe gamestopping bugs? can't think of one. Open play? yep. Ability to play for ingame income, yep.
The only thing that SL has for me, is the fact that you make your own setting. Anything from Spacestation to dungeon delving you can cover.
Now maybe i got high standards, but so far Linden, as opposed to the player community, has come across as arrogant, Deus ex Machina, who cares about players(= paying customers), incompetent, secret keeping Monkeys. I appreciate the ingame helpers, but the backend needs some serious butkicking or a huge cup of coffee.
PS: i managed to write that entire thing and i still got grey textures....*restarts yet again* I am even less stable sicne this optional update.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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07-22-2006 14:21
From: Lordfly Digeridoo Yeah, it'd be really nice if they sat down and stopped breaking the tools that many folks now rely on for their livelihood.
Fix the f*cking content creation bugs, at least. Kthx. Now you are censoring swear words? Your thread title about the topic cetainly didn't 
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Fmeh Tagore
Just another fat guy
Join date: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 670
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07-22-2006 14:29
To me, if they're going to add new options, they should be completely new options, not revamping old options if people are already happy with them--unless they keep the same functionality as they had PLUS extras. I don't think they should bother making options look shinier--all that does it take more processor time. I think this update IS a disaster, and that they know this very well. Hopefully they'll have the capacity to fix the bugs in a timely manner.
I still stand by what I said before about us not whining so much that it takes them a percentage of Wednesdays to shut the grid down and put it back up--it's a necessary evil.
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mcgeeb Gupte
Jolie Femme @}-,-'-,---
Join date: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,152
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07-22-2006 14:32
Don't fix what ain't broke!!!!!!!!!!!
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Nephilaine Protagonist
PixelSlinger
Join date: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 1,693
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07-22-2006 14:34
hmm. does anyone think a rollback is even possible at this point? the longer they let it go, the more cost rolling back is going to have...people losing land and products they've purchased, new things they've developed, ect ect ect. (unless, of course, there is a way to roll back without those losses. if there is such a way, we certainly havent seen it happen yet.) so...in effect, the longer this crap continues, the worse its going to get for everyone. one camp wants the update rolled back, but if they get it, there will be another camp screaming (rightly) about lost items. WTG!!!!! Of course. Some acknowledgement of the issues and a little transparency about what they intend to do to fix them would go a LONG way towards dissolving some of the angry dissatisfaction. Bueller...?
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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07-22-2006 14:40
From: Nephilaine Protagonist Of course. Some acknowledgement of the issues and a little transparency about what they intend to do to fix them would go a LONG way towards dissolving some of the angry dissatisfaction. Bueller...? .
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Zoe Llewelyn
Asylum Inmate
Join date: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 502
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07-22-2006 14:45
From: Nephilaine Protagonist Of course. Some acknowledgement of the issues and a little transparency about what they intend to do to fix them would go a LONG way towards dissolving some of the angry dissatisfaction. Bueller...?
Indeed. This point is actually upsetting me more than anything at the moment. Communication is key and there has yet to be a single response.
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Risa Mosuke
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 9
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Agreed
07-22-2006 14:46
While I'm pretty much a new user, the crash issues and all the problems with objects not working properly have convinced me to sign on to this thread. A rollback would be great! Failing that, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get our items working properly, and FIX the crash issues, which seem so far to be both numerous, and random.
Items I use that give me problems: Personal Hud: Seems to work, but after teleporting, I end up stuck in the air until I remove the item. Very annoying. Some strangeness with Xcite items: Sometimes they sound off saying I'm being touched by such and such a person, but they are not touching me, they are deleting items from their inventory. Can't figure that one out for the life of me!
I played for 20 or so days without ONE crash, then this patch comes, and I've already had to uninstall and reinstall the SL client twice to be able to stay on more than 5 minutes. Tried to watch movies at a party today: I cannot. Complete crash within 3 minutes or therabouts everytime a movie is played. I had to disable that feature. :/
Lastly, the lag is awful lately, and as someone else pointed out, flying around has become completely unpleasant, I used to enjoy flying about and finding things the 'hard' way. No more, I can barely move without being thrown into uncontrolable forward flight when changing sims, only to suddenly find myself back in the previous sim again, ending up only inching forward, then thrown back repeatedly. If you can't fix it, roll back so we can enjoy ourselves again.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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07-22-2006 14:47
I'd rather they take Monday to reinstall the old version from pre-update, but not roll back land and sims. Since a normal update doesn't undo land transactions, etc, then this shouldn't. If they do do a rollback, I'l be setting the land I sold to sale for 0 to the ones who bought it. I won't charge twice.
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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07-22-2006 14:50
From: Nephilaine Protagonist hmm. does anyone think a rollback is even possible at this point?
I think a rollback even only an hour after the grid being up is going to cause more problems than it would solve. They will have an easier time with dealing with complaints about functionality than they would the thousands of content loss complaints they would get as a result of rollback. Hopefully, we will see a barrage of patches to some of these problems, and soon :/
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Fmeh Tagore
Just another fat guy
Join date: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 670
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07-22-2006 14:54
I think a rollback is a terrible idea. They just need to fix the bugs.
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Lina Pussycat
Texture WizKid
Join date: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
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07-22-2006 14:58
Well i crashed and that is rare. My computer usually craps out before SL does normally. And now i crash on occasion. I dont think a rollback is a wise idea considering how SL is run but i do think you need to realize its the first release in this patch and they often repatch to fix things. Thats why there is 1.11.1 etc and what not. I know its tough to accept some bugs =/ but they are going to happen =/
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Nephilaine Protagonist
PixelSlinger
Join date: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 1,693
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07-22-2006 15:01
agreed that rolling back would be a kneejerk reaction that would only make a bad situation worse. eh...sarcasm and text. doesnt work too well sometimes. sorry if i wasnt clear about that initially 
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