New Trend of GROUP Banning

Offensive.

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. What do you mean by "cross and nails"? Did he bring some damning evidence to this thread or are you saying he deserves all of this simply because you don't like his tone?

I dunno. What do you mean by "crucified?"

I've been told by quite a few of them to walk on eggshells because I don't have enough e-fame(or reputation if you will) to have an opinon on the matter.

Was that supposed to be a rebuttal or an attempt at humor?

Think of it as "Speaking in Metaphors 101."

How witty!

Well, I was questioning your metaphor. Did you not understand my question or do you not understand your own metaphor? Your response indicates one of these must be the case.

Regardless, am I to understand correctly, then, that you stand by this? That you truly think a community is justified in crucifying a community member based on hearsay? I suppose the crucifixion metaphor works in more ways than one.

I'd call multiple eyewitnesses quite a bit more than a "shred". The fact that some of the eyewitnesses have a good reputation around SL does not help Gambit -- neither does his floundering attempt at a public self-defense. You mentioned the WoW boards, but frankly I've seen better logic there than I saw from him here.

He'd have been much better off privately reasoning with the complainants than dragging his ill-thought-out protestations here on the board. Oh well, too late for that now -- he's single-handedly convinced some other land owners to ban his group from their land, too. Good job

You sure we're ready for that? Sounds awfully advanced.

kk, I'll spell it out since you're apparently new.

A person who was actually maligned, ie the statments about them griefing a sim were false, would 1) Report the offending post via that little button at the bottom of each post. 2) Lodge a formal complain with Linden Lab over the harrassment/slander.

A person who is actually guilty of said griefing usually (by past examples we have all born witness to) 1) Makes a lame post crying "I didn't do it!" 2) Continually calls for justice since the ssytem works slow in examining the details so banning and suspensions/warnings are issued slowly. Usually days/weeks after the incident.

Also, as a first offense, LL would probably issue a warning and they do that privately, so even if you had gotten one, we would never know. LL will never publicise that information.

As for crusifying him without proof; We have proof. We have witnesses of character whom state this happened. As Residents, we will never see the logs LL actually has on file so this is the end all, be all, of our justice. Call it e-cred, call it reputation, it is respect in any event.

So no, I don't feel any sympathy for the OP. If he's innocent, use proper channels to prove that. Until then, we will accept what evidence we have been given. If you do not like that, take it up with Linden Labs, or you can leave by the same door you entered by.

You have proper channels. Use them if you wish. An innocent man could. A griefer can not.

~Jessy

I would absolutely agree that he would have been better off privately reasoning with the complainants if the complainants hadn't brought the matter to the Forums ahead of him. When one is publicly slandered, there is no private solution...fair enough?

That being said, I obviously cannot attest to the good or poor reputations of these "eyewitnesses." I am attempting to be an impartial, outside observer. I don't -know- -any- of you . And my mention of the WoW boards is specific to the (now used as a joke) "pics or it didn't happen" trend. Few believe any claim about anyone on there unless it is supported by images of the event in question. Now, I will grant you that the immense size of WoW makes it impossible for anyone to have a truly sterling and sufficiently well-known reputation such as it is occasionally possible to achieve such a thing in SL.

But that doesn't change the nature of the problem. I find it extremely difficult to believe that none of these "multiple eyewitnesses" saw fit to record any element of the event -- particularly when it is so infinitely simple to record things in SL. There is a screenshot button and there is no timeliness factor here. Objects retain a permanent record of their ownership.

Look, ultimately I am not saying I am utterly convinced of anyone's guilt or innocence. All I am saying is that I see no reason to be convinced either way in this thread and am amazed at the utter conviction I see here. I am honestly not trying to ruffle feathers, nor am I attempting to antagonize anyone.

Why aren't you telling the person passing out a false ban list to use the proper channels? They made this public, not me, and not any former members of CAKE.

This is blatantly unfair. The accusers have proper channels as well. Why the free pass for the accusers in this case but the quickness to clobber Gambit for responding in kind?

Also, I do understand the potential merit behind eyewitness accounts by persons of character -- or, rather, I understand how that might be meritorious for those of you who know said persons of character. I do not. I also tend to think that there is literally no way I could know somebody well enough in a virtual, anonymous landscape to trust their word absolutely.

It doesn't apply here.


His name was not mentioned that I know of - that would be against forum rules. Thus, there was no such thing as "public slander". (EDIT: the group name was mentioned, which is apparently not against the forum rules. Don't want to be associated with a group's idiocy? Leave the group).


And if you post culprits' names here, you get banned by LL. The abuse report is between the complainant and LL, and ultimately between LL and the plaintiff. Which is why, had he not volunteered for his own crucifixion Gambit's name would never have come up.

My name DID come up in the form of a ban list that Yiffy Yaffle is PASSING out to anyone who asks for it. Sending out the names of the members of CAKE as griefers IS slandering my name, as well as the names of my friends.

There was no call for a list, if they felt I should be banned from their private land for whatever, then they should've done so, made a report, and left it at that.

They made a public assault on me, and my friends, which has been 20 times more damaging than this 'griefing' attempt they have yet to prove.

You can't just say "it doesn't apply here" without explaining why. If anything, it is easier to supply pictoral evidence of a happening in SL than it is in WoW. In WoW, events are transient. In SL, objects retain ownership permanently.

No, his name was not mentioned. His -group- name was mentioned. Frankly, that's several orders of magnitude worse. Now you're not just slandering one person, you're slandering a group of people. I find it infinitely fascinating that you would equate a member of a slandered group choosing to defend himself and his group with "volunteering for his own crucifixion." That is precisely the attitude I find disturbing in this thread.

Your name was never mentioned publicly on this board until YOU brought it up.


No call except for the level of frustration the furry sims have reached with the extreme level of griefing they've been getting. Don't put yourself in their shoes, though, we don't expect you to.


I believe the term is "karma". The louder you yell, the worse it gets.

Barry I am sure the accusers used the include screenshot in the AR, and at the time didnt get a chance to screenshot the action because I know sometimes the particles and prims have a fast timer to rid them in a hurry but leave laggy scripts in unseen prims. Son they probably didnt get a screenshot before the prims poofed. This said i agree to a extent with you about the reputation in world but on the most part the said accusers are well respected by the lindens and are highly regarded as honest and mature people. The OP has yet to prove he didnt do it by showing where he was at the time of the attack! Just because I say I didnt do it because I wasnt there doesnt hold ground with most all people.


So to the OP prove you wasnt there or sit back and have a nice tall glass of shut the f@@k up!!

CAKE was not affiliated with 4Chan, and we did nothing like, or even close to what 4Chan did. The fact that you people assume we did irritates me, you have no proof of that, and haven't witnessed it, because it didn't happen.

Almost every member of Cake IS a furry, and frequents furry sims daily. Only 3 did not like furries, willingly attacked furry sims, and no I will not give their names.

Wait, how on earth is he to prove he wasn't there? You expect him to have coincidentally taken a screenshot with timestamp at the exact time of the so-called event? Exacerbating matters, has anyone actually pinpointed exactly when this event occurred?

Also, there are many very real reasons our justice system is founded on "innocent until proven guilty." One of them I list above -- it is often completely impossible to prove innocence. He does not need to prove his innocence. Someone needs to prove his guilt.

On the other hand, it is obviously possible, as you rightly point out, that these multiple eyewitnesses simply failed en masse to grab screenies of the event as it occurred.

That makes no sense at all and is highly immature. How would I prove that when I didn't know there would be a public ban list sent around, and didn't know all this drama was going to be on the forums?

It doesn't apply here because the rules are different. LL treats abuse reports very confidentially -- I know. I've been filing 20 or more per week. All I ever hear back is "Abuse Report Resolved". If I search for the person I reported, once in a while I actually see that their account no longer exists. That's the most I ever know. And posting pictures and names here WILL get you in trouble with LL. Check the board posting rules.


Since Yiffy has had trouble with multiple people from this group, I don't think it's that big of a leap to accuse the group. In fact, it's logical.

I empathize with the mess the furry sims are dealing with. And when I see 3 or more people from the same group pulling the same crap, you'd better believe I would ban the whole group.


It's not slander if he (and his group) are guilty -- and frankly, that resolution is up to LL, not to Gambit. Frankly the extremity of his protests here have not convinced anyone that he's innocent -- if it matters. Apparently it does to him, but his reaction has not been thought through very well. HE ended up doing more damage to himself than any accusations have. If LL investigated and cleared him, why not wait til that point to publish his own exoneration instead of whining so much that he's been accused and even starting his own special thread?

I'm not disturbed by the "furry griefing" threads at all, other than the fact that the furries don't deserve that much aggravation. Hopefully upcoming land tools will let them keep 300 people banned at a time so they don't have to continually rotate their list like I do.

How exactly would you react to being falsly accused and being added to a public ban list that goes against the TOS?

Read.

The person pasing out teh ban list (false or correct) did use proper channels. As they stated. Abuse Reports were filed with Linden Labs. The names of those on siad list were place on thier land ban lists (as they are allowed to do), and they announced publically about an attack to pass information to a community that requested such actions to combat the rampant upraise of griefing.

The need for a definate system to combat griefers is paramount to those of us who spend time inworld and wish it to be as enjoyable an experiance as possible. Passing on such a list is one method of doing so.

I would also point out that slandering was done by the OP of this thread first. Saying someone is passing false information of such a nature is slander in it's own right. Whomever is saying untruths is the one slandering. Be that the accused griefer, or the suspected griefed.

The desire to want an "innocent until proven guilty" system is admirable, but it is not one we have. Sorry if this upsets you. We work with what we have. As stated, numerous witnesses state you and your group did in fact commit the offenses.

Like a military court, you now must prove your innocence beyond resonable doubt.

If that is unacceptable to you, and to anyone else, then perhaps LL is not for you and WoW is a better place. Until your innocence is proven, many, including myself, will have you banned. Word is spreading fast, and new tools are being given to use by LL each update. Not always what we want, but each one is another step to eliminating griefing. This ban list is simply another tool to that end.

~Jessy

Ok I hope this is being read wrong becasue it seems you just admitted you are guilty.