Attachment 1.8.2 culling: Violating Freedom of Expression and COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL

Hi all:

Please see this post for an explanation of what Avatar LOD is and why we need it -- with pictures!

Brent

I gotta figure, if the feature mainly just uglifies people's avatars and ruins attachments, most people aren't going to use it, especially if it's not on (or turned down) by default.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that things shouldn't be 'cut' or attachments randomly missing.. it's just wrong. That being said, I do feel a prim limit would be a more ammicable solution to solving the problem than randomly degrading the look of an AV.

While it's nice to be a detailed as possible, it needs to be kept within a certain limit much like prim allocation for land.

Looks fine to me.

Thanks Brent!

Thanks, Brent. It's reassuring that the default is set decently high.

Can we see the slider to the left, now?
Can we also see medium setting on a large macro-AV like a big mech or dragon, at 80m?

...

Hiro - I believe the last image on Brent's post is one taken with the slider all the way to the left.

An image of a large macro-AV at 80m isn't there - and certainly wouldn't be a bad thing. But I think the point Brent was trying to make was that the detail that would be dropped off at that setting would only be for smaller attachments - which even on a huge Mech AV, may be difficult to discern at that distance.

An image can't hurt to confirm, however

There is also one thing that nobody seems to have thought of.

You can't possibly know how another player sees you - with or without this update. So why does it matter? Why should someone else have to see things they don't want to?

All we need to add to this is bling, sexballs, laggy clubs and Bush signs.... and it would be great.

Lewis

Oh, we have all of those, but we can't see them right now because Linden Lab kills baby turtles and kicks puppies.

Yes, but we're not dealing with an extremes. There's a difference of "you can't know if the other person has a video card glitch that makes a weird line go through your AV" and "you don't know if your head attachment may render or not entirely.".


Again, it's not about choosing what you see, it's about modifying it. I stated we should have
right-click -> ignore AV / object as an option, but turning off parts of an AV - no.



excessive bling is one of the seven deadly sins of SL.

and ... have you heard of PoseCubes? /grin

I'd like to see the last shot repeated after the feathers had started to go.

Hiro, I understand your concern, but I'm sorry if I don't agree nor see it that same way as you.

First of all, LL is in no way limiting an individual's capability to express themselves (excluding the ToS and CS) thru their avatar. People will still be able to be prim-tastic, blinged out or whatever they wish to be. All this option does is allow us to choose how much we wish to view of this.

This can be parrelleled IRL to "Selective hearing". You can say whatever you wish, but me as an individual can "tune you out" and ignore specific things you say.

Now, as for the legality of it, LL does not really have any exposure to risk. Why? It is an option that the user chooses to either turn off or adjust according to their taste. Infact, lets look at the case of the V-Chip (see http://www.fcc.gov/eb/oip/RateBlock.html). Several governments, including your own, have mandated that it be deployed with all televisions that are 13" and bigger. This device in theory does the same thing, lets a parent choose what level of television is allowed to be viewed by their children. Another case in point is Net-Nanny, where once again, parents are given control of what can be viewed.

Now having said this, why would this differ? Infact, this is even better as the individual user makes the choice and is not chosen by another person (ie, I set very high and my g/f can adjust it if she wants to her own preference).

Finally, what's the difference between on/off and on/somewhere_between/off ? Truely, you must advocate that there is no option to "hide" in any form another avatar or their attachments. Ultimately, black and white does equate to black, grey and white when it comes to the subject of expression and censorship.

Finally, where does anyone have the right to say what I must listen to or view. This is my own choice. LL is simply giving me another tool to choose what I want to see.

If you want to go on the hunt for "freedom of speech", maybe you should review the ToS and Community Standards and pick a fight there. Last I checked, there were many offensive things I can say in public in the United States, but in SL are strictly prohibited.

My two cents. I say, give me this feature. Let me choose what I can see, and how an individuals "freedom of expression" effects my experience of SL. A question to ask yourself, "Who are you to force your expression onto someone else".

Mind you, after seeing that picture of the culling in action, I do have to agree that its quite impractical. Oh man, my hair is gonna die!

Preview for Avatar LOD is up:

/3/fe/84075/1.html#post858809

From the pictures this looks like an incredibly sensible addition to the client. Not that it comes as any kind of shock. When I read the original announcement yesterday I thought the same thing. Seems like a bit of a forehead slapper really. Thanks Brent for going out of your way to set up a preview.

Okay, I over-reacted as to my degree of fervor for the post. I apologize.
If I could go back, I would:
- (a) Not bring this up to Lindens on a Sunday, and waited until Monday morning
- (b) Lost the ALL CAPS *chuckles*
- (c) Gone through my sinister FIC sources to get the skinny on the situation first. I may add, knowing what I know know, it would not have changed my decision to post about this.
- (d) Posted a picture of pie.

However, I do think saying that there is a freedom of expression issue at risk was warranted, and I do think that any non-trivial feature needs a proper discussion with the community and potentially a Preview.

Things like graphics settings greatly affects how every new resident in SL experiences SL, and a change may not be reconsidered for months - even years. I still believe there are potential bugs that can break avatars, and now that Preview is open, we can swarm into it and help out the overworked QA team to flush out things.

Thanks to Linden Lab for being so responsive, and taking expression so seriously. Thanks for the people in the forum who weren't afraid to mix it up in a heated discussion - your honesty keeps us all ... um ... honest.

Yeah.

Oh, and buy my katanas.

Shouldn't be a problem, the individual feathers are actually quite huge.... they're cut spheres, so if they were uncut they would be rather monsterous.

Actually, the phoenix has a lot of big prims, save for....

- Eyes
- Parts of the beak
- Parts of the toes
- That's about it!

I don't suspect a lot being a problem unless you're pretty far away.

I'll see tonight in the preview when I get outta work. I'll be comparing several of my avvies, some "fine detailed", some more coarse.

I'd like to remind everyone that this public "preview" is a special client built for use on the Agni grid. You won't be connecting to a preview grid.

What's an Agni grid?

It's the main grid.

No wonder people get so passionate and upset about SL -- the damned world is Sanskrit for "Fire"!

Yep, I want to see that slider all the way to the left during a formal dance (ie; prim heavy dresses), so we can start up an "Aimee's Panties, part deux" thread.

Bravo LL on the recent Announcements and getting the Preview up! Much love

Mar/Cat

OMG stop the whining i want to get off.

So apparently those who attach thousands of prims and bling and such their appearance is more important than the majority of the players being able to move around in game.

I for one will be happy not to be forced to see all the prims and have my frame rate go up so i can enjoy my game.