Please Shut Up if you say SL is not a game.
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Baba Yamamoto
baba@slinked.net
Join date: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1,024
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07-14-2006 07:42
From: Banking Laws It makes SL a game to me. You have every right to see and define SL differently.
I've never tried to define what SL is to you. When I say your use of Second Life is gamelike I mean that Second Life is a game to you. When I say this I include only you in this definition. We agree on that point. When I say Second Life is a platform and is not a game I mean that in a general way that means it can be used for nearly anything, and not just specificly games.
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Lone Jacobs
Best of all worlds *wink*
Join date: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 89
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07-14-2006 07:43
To everyone that has posted.....words of wisdom...  Build a bridge then...GET OVER IT! Sl is whatever someone wants it to be. PLease end this talk and discuss things that are actually fun...like PIE!  |
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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07-14-2006 07:44
From: Baba Yamamoto When I say your use of Second Life is gamelike I mean that Second Life is a game to you. When I say this I include only you in this definition. We agree on that point.
When I say Second Life is a platform and is not a game I mean that in a general way that means it can be used for nearly anything, and not just specificly games. Then we can agree to disagree.  Lone, marry me?
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"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President
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Baba Yamamoto
baba@slinked.net
Join date: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1,024
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07-14-2006 07:47
From: Lone Jacobs To everyone that has posted.....words of wisdom... Build a bridge then...GET OVER IT! Sl is whatever someone wants it to be. PLease end this talk and discuss things that are actually fun...like PIE! I'm far too anal to get over this.. I will debate the word game as it relates to Second Life ad infinitum
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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07-14-2006 07:49
From: Baba Yamamoto I'm far too anal to get over this.. I will debate the word game as it relates to Second Life ad infinitum Then debate by yourself, because you can never define what SL is for me.
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"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President
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Baba Yamamoto
baba@slinked.net
Join date: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1,024
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07-14-2006 08:01
From: Banking Laws Then debate by yourself, because you can never define what SL is for me. I will continue with rebuttles as long as someone posts an opposing opinion.
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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07-14-2006 08:08
From: Baba Yamamoto I will continue with rebuttles as long as someone posts an opposing opinion. Guess its good I can agree to disagree and not continue a pointless discussion then.
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"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President
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Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider
Join date: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,906
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07-14-2006 08:46
From: Banking Laws I think game is a good definition.
... Learn to accept people see SL differently, and stop trying to define it for others.
We bring the "Role Playing" part with us. It's not built in. Living in a country and by it's laws is not "role playing"... why should being in SecondLife be considered differently? I'm glad people see SL differently... but I still think we CAN come to a concensus, (well maybe not with you) about what the essential nature of SecondLife. Establishing a solid, useful definition would be helpful when explaining SL to outsiders... without setting in preconceptions like "game" or "business park" or "cybering hot-house" or .. or ... What's wrong with trying to establish an inclusive definition anyway? |
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Arsenic Soyinka
Registered User
Join date: 1 Dec 2005
Posts: 168
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07-14-2006 09:23
. Banking Laws ... the whole premise of your CONCEPT & THESIS is completely ERRONEOUS & FLAWED & INACCURATE & UNTRUE FROM YOUR OWN INITIAL STATEMENT BELOW: From: Banking Laws Linden Labs made the game. when according to THEM ... they did NOT create a GAME From: Originally Posted by Philip Linden I"M NOT A GAMER, AND SL ISN'T A GAME. your statement and definition is in total contradiction to SL's representation. its really a very simple concept to comprehend ... if you can be honest with yourself and everyone else ... that SL is not a game ... but that you are playing a GAME on SL ... whatever it may be there are plenty of people on SL who DONT "play games" ... who prefer to make a distinction between those who DO play games and those who DONT play games and of course, like you, there are those who DO play Games on SL, who use deception as part of their game, regarding concepts of honesty & integrity consequently, Banking Laws, until such time when you or anyone else can admit to the distinctions, even for the purposes of this forum, that SL is NOT a game by virtue of SL's own definition, (or that youre in denial of it) ... and that you are simply using SL for your own particular games, then you are demonstrating here in THIS Forum, that you have very little integrity or honesty, and that you shouldnt be trusted by anyone at any time on SL ... (which may also be a part of your game) except for those who are willing to play your "kind of games" and would SL/Linden Labs be willing to settle this debate with a reclarification of their definition as to what SL is and means to them? ... one can only guess and wait. until then ... one can only go by the statement of Philip Linden: "SL ISN'T A GAME." *´¨`·.¸.·*Arsenic . |
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polysilox Apogee
Registered User
Join date: 16 May 2006
Posts: 78
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A note on symbols
07-14-2006 09:52
E. Casserier the french philosopher pointed out that symbol equals substance, so its two mints in one, its sweet and tart, sweetheart.
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Androclese Torgeson
I've got nothin'
Join date: 11 May 2004
Posts: 144
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07-14-2006 10:06
Is this thread *still* going on?
OK, lets see..
- Kids and Adults playing dress up ~ Playing with Barbie and G.I. Joe: GAME
- Kids and Adults have *virtual* sex ~ Barbie playing with G.I. Joe: GAME
- The buying and selling of property ~ Buy Park Place in Monopoly: GAME
- Constructing Buildings ~ Playing with Lego: GAME
- Sculpting Statues ~ Sculpting with PlayDoh: GAME
- SL Client is software installed on a computer: Software
- Trying to explain to your spouse that you are spending all your time in a "Metaverse" that is an experiment in custom creations and social dynamics and then quoting dead French guys. ~ Getting that "look" and being told "stop playing that game and come eat dinner": GAME
Well, looks to me like the GAME category has it. It's a highly useful game that can be used in a variety of ways, but it's still just a game. Trying to associate all this flowerly language and "high concepts" to this software changes nothing; It's a GAME.
And for the record, just because it's a game, does not detract from what it is or the people that play the GAME.
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Androclese Torgeson
Real Life, also known as "that big room with the ceiling that is sometimes blue and sometimes black with little lights"
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Arsenic Soyinka
Registered User
Join date: 1 Dec 2005
Posts: 168
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07-14-2006 10:07
. From: polysilox Apogee E. Casserier the french philosopher pointed out that symbol equals substance, so its two mints in one, its sweet and tart, sweetheart. exactly! as it is a simple admission ... SL is sweet ... and the games can be tart! thats not so hard to state, is it? *´¨`·.¸.·*Arsenic . |
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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07-14-2006 10:16
I see that no amount of reason can dissuade people from their personal semantical framework so long as they confuse technical definition with emotional bias.
Personally, if anyone could provide compelling logic to support the thesis that SL is a game under the technical definition thereof, I might be swayed. Simple emotional statements prove nothing, and convince no one.
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polysilox Apogee
Registered User
Join date: 16 May 2006
Posts: 78
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Technically
07-14-2006 10:20
Florescent lime green on light blue is a rotten color to make any kind of point.
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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07-14-2006 11:41
From: Jopsy Pendragon We bring the "Role Playing" part with us. It's not built in.
Living in a country and by it's laws is not "role playing"... why should being in SecondLife be considered differently?
I'm glad people see SL differently... but I still think we CAN come to a concensus, (well maybe not with you) about what the essential nature of SecondLife.
Establishing a solid, useful definition would be helpful when explaining SL to outsiders... without setting in preconceptions like "game" or "business park" or "cybering hot-house" or .. or ...
What's wrong with trying to establish an inclusive definition anyway? Because someone will always disagree. It CANT be all inclusive.
_____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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07-14-2006 11:45
From: Arsenic Soyinka .
Banking Laws ...
the whole premise of your CONCEPT & THESIS is completely
ERRONEOUS & FLAWED & INACCURATE & UNTRUE
FROM YOUR OWN INITIAL STATEMENT BELOW:
when according to THEM ... they did NOT create a GAME
your statement and definition is in total contradiction to SL's representation.
its really a very simple concept to comprehend ...
if you can be honest with yourself and everyone else ...
that SL is not a game ...
but that you are playing a GAME on SL ... whatever it may be
there are plenty of people on SL who DONT "play games" ...
who prefer to make a distinction between those who DO play games
and those who DONT play games
and of course, like you, there are those who DO play Games on SL,
who use deception as part of their game, regarding concepts of honesty & integrity
consequently, Banking Laws, until such time when you or anyone else
can admit to the distinctions, even for the purposes of this forum,
that SL is NOT a game by virtue of SL's own definition,
(or that youre in denial of it) ... and that you are simply using SL
for your own particular games, then you are demonstrating here
in THIS Forum, that you have very little integrity or honesty,
and that you shouldnt be trusted by anyone at any time on SL ...
(which may also be a part of your game)
except for those who are willing to play your "kind of games"
and would SL/Linden Labs be willing to settle this debate with a
reclarification of their definition as to what SL is and means to them? ...
one can only guess and wait.
until then ... one can only go by the statement of Philip Linden: "SL ISN'T A GAME."
*´¨`·.¸.·*Arsenic
. Philip also said we would have havoc2. I don't take everything he says as gospel, and his view of SL is different from mine. One can only go on your own definition. I could care less what Philip promises or says on the subject because such statements have had a history of falling short or not materializing at all. To me, SL is a game. I'm the only one who sets my definition.
_____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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07-14-2006 11:49
From: Kalel Venkman I see that no amount of reason can dissuade people from their personal semantical framework so long as they confuse technical definition with emotional bias.
Personally, if anyone could provide compelling logic to support the thesis that SL is a game under the technical definition thereof, I might be swayed. Simple emotional statements prove nothing, and convince no one. Mine is a technical definition. game 1  (g  m) KEY NOUN: - An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime
SL meets it. Thus, by my technical definition, SL is a game.
_____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President
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Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider
Join date: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,906
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07-14-2006 12:22
From: Androclese Torgeson
- Constructing Buildings ~ Playing with Lego: GAME
- Sculpting Statues ~ Sculpting with PlayDoh: GAME
One can 'Play'... at things that aren't 'games'. This example seems rather weak. Of course, we can't even agree in this forum on what a 'definition' is anyway. I do, however, understand why Jonas/Banking Law's insistence on "SL is a Game to me" bothers me, and understand myself better for it, which is nice. To illustrate, let me provide an analogy: BL: "America is caucasian to me." JP: "Really? I know a lot of America is not caucasian... and America is more than just people. How can you say it's caucasian?" BL: "La la la, I can't hear you. Nothing you can say can change my mind." JP: "Okay, but you're either your displaying your ignorance of non-caucasian Americans ... or you are implying that you think non-caucasions are not American." BL: "You can't make my definition of America wrong to me. America is defined differently for everone." JP: "You're confusing 'definition' with 'opinion'." BL: "Ha, ha, you're amusing. Stop trying to tell people what America is." JP: "... and I wish you could open your eyes and see more of what America is, rather than repeating your self-centered and misrepresentational 'definition'." |
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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07-14-2006 12:31
From: Jopsy Pendragon One can 'Play'... at things that aren't 'games'.
This example seems rather weak.
Of course, we can't even agree in this forum on what a 'definition' is anyway.
I do, however, understand why Jonas/Banking Law's insistence on "SL is a Game to me" bothers me, and understand myself better for it, which is nice. To illustrate, let me provide an analogy:
JP: "Secondlife is not a game."
BL: "Really? I know a lot of people who see it as a game, how can you define it for them?"
JP: "La la la, I can't hear you. Nothing you can say can change my mind."
BL: "Okay, but you're either your displaying your arrogance by defining for others or displaying your ignorance by saying people can't play SL."
JP: "You can't make my definition of America wrong. America is defined the same for everone."
BL: "You're confusing 'definition' with 'opinion'."
JP: "Ha, ha, you're amusing. Stop trying to tell me everyone is different."
BL: "... and I wish you could open your eyes and see more of what America is, rather than repeating your self-centered and misrepresentational 'definition'."
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"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President
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Persephone Milk
Very Persenickety!
Join date: 7 Oct 2004
Posts: 870
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07-14-2006 14:19
From: Banking Laws Mine is a technical definition. game 1 (g m) KEY NOUN: - An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime
SL meets it. Thus, by my technical definition, SL is a game. And so is watching TV. This thread is a game. A game of semantics that nobody is going to win.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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07-14-2006 14:21
From: Persephone Milk And so is watching TV.
This thread is a game.
A game that nobody is going to win. I think everyone who isn't trying to define things for others is the winner here. 
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Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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07-14-2006 14:23
You people still cannot accept that SL is now known as Steve and/or Stephen? 
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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07-14-2006 14:29
From: Sally Rosebud You people still cannot accept that SL is now known as Steve and/or Stephen? Is it the twin of Steve, the slingshot from Dark Cloud?
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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07-14-2006 14:32
Steve and/or Stephen is not a person or a being, Steve and/or Stephen just is. Steve and/or Stephen has no definition, Steve and/or Stephen transcends all definitions. Steve and/or Stephen is mad at all of you now and will produce massive amounts of "lag" when you go to visit Steve and/or Stephen.
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"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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07-14-2006 14:35
From: Sally Rosebud Steve and/or Stephen is not a person or a being, Steve and/or Stephen just is. Steve and/or Stephen has no definition, Steve and/or Stephen transcends all definitions. Steve and/or Stephen is mad at all of you now and will produce massive amounts of "lag" when you go to visit Steve and/or Stephen. Dolly Parton made Steve into Stephany with one shot.
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Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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