Acceptance, letting go and moving on.

I don't think LL pays very much, unless your name is M, or you are that aol guy.

And I shouldn't have used the word tripe..that was also wrong. But Talla, you forget that these people can still be creative and have a home in SL....just not where they want and not in the space that they want.

And just so that you know, I am also one of these people who you mentioned in your previous post - I won't be paying more. And so will have to look at alternatives. And no, I won't be going to Mainland, but that's my choice.

I really really hope that LL backtrack - for us and for their own sakes. But everyone is forgetting that they are not running SL purely for our benefit. Yes, they are getting it wrong in many ways, but so are we.

I have to go out in the real world and to my job now - another place where I can't argue emotionally about points which are actually cold and hard. I have to swallow down a huge amount of things which are unfair, pick my battles and then fight back cleverly. This battle can perhaps, perhaps be won in the sense that LL may well negotiate. But I wouldn't hold my breath. That doesn't mean that we don't try, but we ARE laughable in the sense that we use the blogs and the groups to gripe, bitch at others when they don't 100% agree and don't focus on the main points in a measured and logical way.

As I am no expert in many areas, I also understand the frustration involved and the want to vent. Everyone feels very helpless.

But that won't change anything.

I'd admire Vryl hugely in that she is doing her best to find ways which are constructive. She has had to deal with hugely personal attacks from people who have, at best, only a little clue of the whole picture. In business, one doesn't hold the other to ransom with an all or nothing approach. Or at least not as a first resort. You handle and bargain. Yes, you use the law or get other parties involved. But you act in an adult manner and you have to at times, make concessions. When all else fails, THEN you have the moral arguement on your side to get more radical. Although I am still against "violent" methods. But we have until January for that.

Most of the most shrill voices here are concerned about themselves. Full stop. If people were truly concerned about the Community as a whole, then they would pull themselves together and start working together to get an articulate, business-based and technical arguement to enter into a dialogue with LL.

With all this witch hunting amongst ourselves, LL will quietly sit back and let us vent our energy and then happily go back to doing what they want, regardless.

And with such a huge group of passionate, caring, articulate and creative people....its amazing that these talents are used so destructively amongst each other and not put to good use.

Poppy, thank you so very much for your kind words of support. *hugs*

Who are yhou to say who what is right?

The op doesnt even own an open space sim, she rents one and has her main store on it. She isnt using it lightly but as her main business place.

The op isnt a content creator but a reseller of other artists textures, yes legally, but she doesnt make them herself.

The op has no right to tell us to accept this ridiculous increase.

I dont own an open space sim either but i have rented on one and loved it and now have a permanent home on a full island with a friend.

There are a lot of people who have been really screwed by this and it is not for you to tell them what they should or shouldnt think about it.

To clairify, I am not a reseller. I am an exclusive licensee. Big difference.

Actually, I do OWN an OS sim. I also own a full prim private estate. I also happen to be a content creator. I also do make textures.

Yes, I also rent an OS sim.. I also rent other places too.. so I rent and own both. Do you have a problem with that?

Once again, I'm not here to be personally attacked. Have I personally attacked you? I think not.

Providing content or Owning or not owning has nothing to do with it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, just as I. I am NOT telling anyone what or how they should think, feel, or react. I am merely making what I perceive to be intelligent suggestions. This petty bickering only distracts from the real problem.

Finally, do you understand the meaning of libel?

The problem, I think, is that there's a global issue here which is concerning people. That's the ability for LL to suddenly make a significant change, that impacts a lot on people's businesses, with very little warning and no effective ability to recover. (Even if people relocate, they have still lost their downpayment; and even with more warning, the OS sims couldn't be sold, as nobody would be prepared to pay the same amount knowing that, in the future, they would become such a bad deal.)

Even "dialog" doesn't address that issue - because it opens up the situation where one day your business is fine, the next day, you have to "dialog" with LL or your business is dead.

The issue of the "garden path" in this case - where LL encouraged the sale of these sims and then harpooned them - makes it even worse. For land traders, they literally had _no choice_ but to "abuse" OS sims - because if they didn't, they'd lose business to those who did. This is exactly the reason why rules which impact on the ability to deliver a desired product MUST be strictly, rigorously, and rapidly enforced - and LL's failure to do this has
led to similar things happening frequently on the grid in other contexts, the most common being script ecology and trademark violation. If LL want to suddenly intervene in a case where it affects them, they should be more stable about intervening in other cases, too.

This is a fair (balanced) proposal, which should harm nobody, while keeping the interests of the ones and of the others:


To avoid hampering the legitimate users of openlands:
1) hard limit openlands capacities to the quarter of the capacity of full sims (quarter of prims, scripts, avatars...) with 4 open lands in the same CPU
2) Keep the today price, which is the quarter of a full sim


To cope with the unintended "new uses" of openlands:
3) create intermediate lands, which are 2 on a CPU, limited to half the capacity of a full sim (half the avatars, prims, scripts...)
4) price intermediate sims to half of a full sim

To cope with cross-lag and similar issues:
5) re-enable the feature as what the owner of 4 openlands (2 intermediate lands) have all on the same CPU. It should even be mandatory.
6) apply the limitations globally to this whole set of 4 (2) as equal to those of a full sim. This allows to use 4 openlands (2 intermediate sims) as if it was a full sim, without any added cost.

7) if Linden Labs has any change to apply on prices, prims or avatar capacities, etc... they are applied to full sims, and divided by 4 for openlands (2 for intermediate sims).


I think such a balanced proposal is the only way to get out of today crisis.

Please not I cannot read such a huge thread. If anybody replies to this, please drop an IM on me in world)

I agree with what you've written Yumi, absolutely.

In that paragraph I was trying to get across my point of how frustrating it is to see the Community turning against themselves, but without annoying anyone...not easy in this climate

I see so many articulate people here, some of whom are too busy running around bitching and sniping at one another when they could be much better use to us all putting their heads together.

Its very sad and highly frustrating.

I was just trying to say that I wish for people to be more constructive. That's all.

I, for one, am losing the will to deal with this issue coz of all the infighting. That's how LL will win.

Course everyone will have a slightly different angle and point they want fought, but the basics are being lost - namely respectful, civil and adult behaviour.

And no, that was not a comment aimed at you! You just commented on my post and I wanted to clarify what I meant.

That is a tactic LL uses. You can see it elsewhere, like, with the avatar rendering cost. When their architecture is in question, find a reason to blame the users, so users will be mad at users and not LL.

Thank you, Poppy. And yes there is a lot of good in what you are saying but, I personally, would never vent anger on anyone who is fighting the same cause even if I have disagreed with them. In fact, if I am criticized then I can take it and think about whether I was wrong before firing back angrily. But, of course, not everyone has the good grace to point out someone's mistake without, at the same time, showing them respect.

We all have views and there is disagreements in all movements. If we were all dealing with this in a real life setting perhaps there would be more respect. But, you know how it is, how it's always been on the internet, because people are safe behind their computers it easily brings out the worst in them.

I wish they would direct their real anger at the people that caused this, the Lindens.

More than anything we need to be less self conscious in so far as what hurts "Me" and fight the cause for the good of all that are affected.

You know... how does it go? All for one and one for all.

I agree with you 100%

Funny you said that. When the entire overloading of the asset system LL thought was open space related was actually caused by the beloved windlight viewer.

So You have a lite use area, non-commercial sim set up there? If you have a commercial sim set up on your OS, yes YOU are a big part of why this is happening and for you to tell the people who have a lite use sim setup rather than a commercial one that "$125 isn't so bad" is... unreal. And then you have the gall to get mad??

So you are running a texture business on an OS ??? You have GOT to be kidding me!!! And you somehow felt that is 'lite use"?

While you may not have personally attacked anyone, you have INSULTED the legitimate users of OS sims claiming this price is fair when ALL you seem to be using your sim for is PERSONAL gain.

And reread your original post, you ARE telling people this isn't worth fighting and the price is fair. I suppose if I was trying to use a low priced lite use sim, loading it with texture vendors and associated scripts to make a profit, I might understand my price being raised. What's a bummer is MY price is being raised because of YOUR need to use this type of sim for YOUR personal gain.

Stephe, before you go jumping on me here for matters or usage factors that you are obviously clueless about.. let me just say that as for my own particular situation on an OS that my stored is housed on, that I was informed by the Concierge staff my usage was well within range of safe and I had room to use even more scripts and prims.

Furthermore, there is really NO such thing as "legitimate" users of SL sims. That term has never been ofificially defined since they lifted restrictions and doubled prims.

I wonder what Spike and Patch Linden told a certain concierge member what happened.

http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2008/11/im-going-to-mak.html#more

Well, whatever.

But now that this post was brought to my attention, I certainly won't be contributing to this Tip Jar. The declaration that everyone is lying about how they use their open space sims and that anyone who says they are boating or have water have sex beds or bsdm castles, respectively - well, it's just riduculous. Sure, there have been people who have not used these as Linden intented, but there have been some that have.

Fireligh

First of all, I never said that Patch and Spike told me to not tell what happened. That is total BS. Then again, some do love to stir S***

I said that we were not to discuss this issue in group chat. We had ALL been warned to not discuss heated issues which result in flames and personal confrontations. But as usual, there is always someone such as yourself who thrives on gossip and hearsay.

Tomorrow will be an announcement from M Linden. I fully expect there to be a compromise. We will move past this, but it is sad that so many in SL have resorted to dirty tactics and residents fighting amoungst themselves.

People have made such a big to do about me saying it's time to move on.. well, yes I meant it.. time to move on past all of the hate, anger and rage.. to move past the unproductive militant type protests and move towards a realistic resolution.. a compromise that would benefit all fairly.

I agree with this statement.

I got swept up in the whole " lets start over " emotion and was asked by customers to plz start selling over there they needed textures and why couldnt they take what they had paid for already? ( in anger and frustration - its like asking " why cant i take my TRU txtrs to WOW or Everquest, There.com - because its NOT the same world! lol )
Anyhooo
So I went to one and set up 270 freebies ( more than SL ever offered us! lol )

We talked about setting up delivery from the website into this world but in the short time I was there, the sims around me were crashing I had to relog 4 times.

It was in alpha not even beta...

Its not practical to add something as advanced as website to client delivery...hell its still a teething stage for SL.

I remember SL in its "just out of beta" days and crashes were common, regions around you going off line were common, LL walking amongst us was common... but there were stores and clubs and people and there wasnt anything else like it, no competition.

These worlds are too new too alpha for the hordes of people accustomed to the luxury of SL "now"
People will head over there in an emotional state of determination and after 1 - 6 days think "omg I walk like Ive had a stroke! Where do I buy clothes and skins? Where IS everyone?"

I cant speak for all SL spin offs but the one I went isnt ready yet...they need to offer a free slot of land for the best clothing, skin and AO designers....texture artists all the fundamentals that SL'ers kinda expect now after being in SL.

The first thing ppl want to do is establish their own identity in AV looks, no one wants to look like everyone else, want to walk nice, dance nice,
Then they want to build...no textures? No build.

It could actually have a rebound effect..it could make ppl actually appreciate SL for how far its come. ( and Im sure LL are aware of this )

I can relate to alpha and beta because I was in SL when they had just moved out of beta and I can appreciate how SL has grown from nrly 5 yrs ago when I joined but the majority of people who join these SL spin offs are used to the level that SL is at currently and they will be in a state of virtual culture shock in these new grids.

New grids are for visionaries - most people just want to have fun dress their dollies and build imo