Acceptance, letting go and moving on.

Not different at all, in fact in 2006 in the sim Huchu I faced the exact thing you say, a guy placed a 32 chair camp casino, and more than ten others in a grid pattern. All identical camp chair farms, all 24/7 taking up most or all of the population cap in the sim. Multiple ARs were filed, nothing done of the span of months.

And, my pet anger point isn't the money.

I might agree with that, IF.... and only IF....

- the performance issues would be sorted out and there would be no more smoke screen about "light use" with these sims: an honest product with honest, actually usable 3750 prims;

- openspace sims with these specifications and pricing would be made available as a standalone product that a mere mortal resident can purchase without owning a full sim first.

They may not increase the other tiers, but I certainly think they will stop grandfathering the Full Sims at $195. And before anyone thinks I'm complaining, they have every right to do that. They were quite clear when they announced the grandfathering that it wasn't forever, but it would be at least 90 days. And its way longer than 90 days.

I was expecting the grandfather tier to stop all this last year.

And before anyone can say I'm giving them ideas, I'm sure they're thinking about when already. Not to mention that I've heard other Full Sim owners complaining about the grandfathered sims and wanting it changed.

Firelight

I purchased my OS sims 2 years ago, and they are class 5's. I have a hard time believing that there are very many class 4 OS sims.

Firelight

Hmm I'd have more respect for your opinions if you hadn't ejected me along with thousands of others from the SOS group. Demanding other people's attention for your views when you took arbitrary action like that without consulting the other people who set the group up.... I don't know what your reasons for that were (perhaps you'd like to elucidate) but I don't think becoming an apologist for the Linden policy and touting for support in *this* forum will get you very far.

People are angry about the way this was done... I think that the issues could have been addressed in the blog, with an opportunity for some consultation about the best way forward... allowing people a fair chance to make their OSS compliant with the rules, whatever they are.

While people owned homes on OSS, they had a vested interest in keep SL going, and making it a success. If you take away those homes, or at least, put them out of the reach of people financially, and so devalue the price of their asset to make it worthless... so that many of them feel they have no choice but to abandon, you instantly turn hundreds of people you could have carried with you, into detractors. That isn't smart, it isn't good customer relations, and it is so unnecessary.

Whether you accept or reject the price hike on the OSS is irrelevant... the handling of the announcement, the lack of understanding about the impact of the announcement on the value of OSS and the destruction of people's feeling that they had a home and a place in their world... those are the things that matter.
~Cali~

I agree with you and I also feel this will happen. I think that Linden Lab has grown up a bit and part of that came growing pains.


I agree with this too.. this is one reason they are set against grandfathering now. I think they realized that they made a big mistake, one that they do not wish to repeat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vryl Valkyrie
yes and there is also this love castle valeria ..
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Castle%20Valeria/54/58/24
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Mos%20Ainsley/132/137/48

Both of these Open Space sims actually built by the Moles who work for Linden Lab. Both of these Open Space sims are perfect examples of hypocricy and deception on the part of Linden Lab.

This is a prime example and can actually be used as evidence against them in a court of law that they are indeed in grave violation of the AntiTrust law. They are monopolozing the economy and market to benifit them, giving them an unfair and unrealistic advantage over their competitors, the users of Second Life. Naughty naughty Mr Linden. If I were you now, I would be consulting with an attorney.

Speaking of attorneys, my lawyer has kindly offered to represent the users of SL (probono) pertaining to the Open Space sim issue. You can contact him via his website:
http://www.ralphgaboury.com/

He is currently setting up an official petition to present to Linden Lab.

Just a couple of days ago you wholeheartedly offered the probono help of your lawyer, and now you find 125 USD acceptable?
No wonder LL always gets away with what they do....

There are more than enough people to continue complaining so if one or two people stop, it's not going to hurt the movement.

Linden is a business and a private one at that. They are going to do this whether there are complaints or not. They knew there would be complaints (although I wonder if they thought it would be so many). And the complaints are probably helping to get some concessions. Although I suspect that the only concessions we're getting are the ones they already had on the list as possible concessions. But if there were no complaints, there would probably be no concessions.

Firelight

We are still going through with the petition. We have a peaceful inworld group. However, there comes a time when one makes a decision. We each have to do that eventually, decide. I feel that we can continue with the petition peacefully and go about our daily lives. Since this entire OP issue started, the grid has pratically come to a halt.

Besides, I do actually feel that 125 USD a month is reasonble compared to what you get. I just did not like the approach and the switch and bait tactic.. the smokescreen. Ok, let's learn and move on and work on other issues which still need to be tweaked.

You know, it is not about the decision they made, it is about HOW they did it? Why could they first not write to the Open Space sim owners and remind them of the terms and conditions of usage? That would have given them a chance to make amends if they were violating them. Not everyone is an abuser! To just throw this on people is a disgrace. I feel really angry to have bought one main sim and two open spaces in July and now be abandoning the two opens at a loss to myself as have not even come close to breaking into profit. Before I bought them from someone else, I went to concierge and asked them if it was ok to be used as residential and if it was ok to have tenants and was told yes. In July they cost me $75 plus VAT = $88 ... which was £44. Now they are to rise to $125 plus VAT = $137 ... which at todays rate would be £88 = total of £176 a month plus the $295 for the main sim = £126. Total £302 a month. THAT IS HOW MUCH I PAY FOR A 400 SQ FT STUDIO IN LONDON!!!!!!!!


Yes time to move on ... and out. So be the death of Second Life.

let's see... pay 125$ tier for 1/4 prims for a OS..... well if you accept that why wouldnt you accept paying 4*125$ for a full island? Dont fool yourself it is coming. So just roll over and accept it

because what you are really paying for is the space.. not the prims.. that's how it was originally with the original void islands... 75 USD for only 18 00 prims yet people accepted it and paid... but now we have become spoiled. All this is doing is bringing balance back again as it should be.

Because what you are really paying for is the space.. not the prims.. that's how it was originally with the original void islands... 75 USD for only 18 00 prims yet people accepted it and paid... but now we have become spoiled. All this is doing is bringing balance back again as it should be.

I want to get back to having fun in SL.. doing the things that I love to do.. exploring, meeting new people.. building stuff, buying stuff and so on.. I hate all this stressful negative energy.

No, it's not about just accepting anything that LL proposes. If I felt it was really unreasonable then I would leave. I don't think it will ever come to that, honestly.

Now.. I think it's time for a new outfit..

I hate the camping thing to where people use there little log in program to log in avi,s to raise the traffic count. But thats not the problem. That program dosent allow them to do anything but chat. But thats another story. If this was a water way would it be ok if I sailed 87 friends thru it on my 2000 prim high scritped boat?

That's an excellent question and I would think "yes" but I'm not expert so I could be mistaken.

Non I ment "it" as in the entire sad situation. I purposely did not point a finger at any particular persons. I have seen enough of this in the last few days from ALL sides of this issue.

It is ok that you have a different opinion, I do respect that. But there was NO REASON to screw up the SOS group just because you think different!!

People rented them out too, plenty of them.

That's the crux of it, your really not getting better performance. all they are offering to do is upgrade those that are still class 4 servers to a class 5. Everything else, as I understand it will remain the same.

Also, when LL upped the prims on the OS, they DID raise the price TO 75US. Prior, when it was the 1800some prims, it was around 50US.

Your not going to get anything MORE when you start paying more.

I don't think many would have blinked an eye if it was a normal increase (sorry, but over half the cost of what people are paying now is not a normal increase), if LL hadn't acknowledged problems with these islands since August and still allowed conversions/new sales or if they took a look at what their own employees (aka Gov. Linden) were doing with the sims prior to attempting to place blame and stating "abuse" since their own employees are just as guilty.

If I am wrong in any of the rates/prims...someone please fee free to correct me.

I did belive you in you and your plan to fight LL and now this? This feels like backstabing!
You can win this in some days and a call out to all how dont want to accept LLs plan fight on.

Did you read my first post? That explains it all. It's not backstabbing. Fighting takes too much energy and accomplishes little. It makes life stressful, not fun and boring... not to mention it's exhausting... plus I really hated all of the agression and mob mentality.. too many protests.. it all got out of control.. so no thanks to that.. life is just too short. There is more than one way to win a war.. besides, didn't someone say to choose your battles wisely?

However, I still have hopes that Linden Lab will make some compromises on their original plan.

I have several suggestions of my own:

1. limited grandfather tier for non profit groups, tier is non transferrable.

2. return the original void sims at 75 USD a month and not mobile.. meaning no gridwide placement.

3. for the current op sim at 3750 prims.. increase prims to 4000 .. and do not start new prices until March 01, 2009 .. this way gives a bit of a cushion after the holidays

4. allow users to convert op sims for a limited time to full prim sims at no cost.. 3 months sounds reasonable.

I feel these are fair for all... basically how I see is that Linden Lab presented a new product 6 months ago.. that was OP sims.. yes ok they were not new but in the way they presented them, they were...we had 6 months to try it out .. they were very successful.. hence the thousands now.. only mistake is that LL should have been forthright with their "plan" from the onset. Then we would have been prepared.. not such a shock. Live and learn..

OP sims with 4000 prims would be worth it.. afterall what we are really paying for is the space.. it was always about space. Some prefer prims and others space.

Wrong land=prims... you buy land for prims.

This giving up and accepting is what our Canadian Government,provincial and federal thrives on,they know Canadians will grumble and complain for couple of days and then quietly accept what was shoved down their throat
I'm not insulting Canadians here.i am one and every Canadian knows what i mean
The point of this whole thing is people bought OS because they were in their price range to do so,if they were at the $125 price range they might not have been able to afford them
I want a 15000 prim island but i can't afford that,if the price was to drop on a 15000 prim island i would definately go for one,but if the price went back up then i could not afford it again
If some are being abused then make it the responsiblity of the estate owner to monitor his own OS rental and get rid of so called "abusers"
Even grandfathering will do nothing to get rid of abusers,neither will raising tier
I suppose some sort of compromise seems the best solution,maybe a low 1875 prim OS for $75,then a medium OS with the 3750 prim allowance for $100.
I could live with that,as it is now if the present projected rate of $125 goes through that means,taking into account the estate owners profit and my dollar exchange rate,i will be paying approx. $190 for my OS

Never give up, never surrender.

I've always been a supporter of LL, but this is where I draw the line. Even when I lost mega-bucks when they changed the pricing scheme a few months ago, I didn't complain, I just retrenched and then moved on.

This OS sim price increase, however, is just a disaster.

It's an engineering disaster as they did not perform the simple analysis to predict the consequences of raising OS prim limits and OS numbers on the grid.

It's a business disaster because they did not consult with their customer base before making a major change in price for one of their most popular products, alienating thousands of their most loyal customers.

And now it's a Public Relations disaster due to the way this was announced and the way it has been handled since the announcement. I expect to see LL on the cover of several business and gaming magazines labeled "Worst PR Disaster of 2008."

Unrelenting advocacy for better engineering practices, business practices and communication practices is the only way the user base--YOU!--can ensure that this kind of incompetent engineering and management does not happen within SL again.

The only thing worse than those who complain too much against wrongs, are those who keep their mouths shut.

Giving up before the political/business debates has even ended eh?

Personally, I'm probobly just going to downsize my land ownership in SL (a few rented parcels for stores), and slowly make a transition or coexistance into OL. I just don't see owning a SIM as a viable option with Linden Labs anymore. Their customer service is great, their technology is constantly progressing, and the player base is far larger. However the inability for me to expand my business to a self-reliant SIM is too far out of reach now... unless they create an inexpensive "poor man's SIM" option that I can jump on. My limit is $100 a month. Either they change for the better, or I take my business and money elsewhere.

I can't imagine using more than 4,000 prims, but full SIM control is important to me. Having a landlord dictate how the SIM is managed, or having a remote corporate entity take forever to answer your calls, just doesn't foster much room for complete creative expression. The SIM owner I rent under currently has given me many rights, including an Estate Manager position so I can terraform my personal land, assit in the terraforming of vacant lots, and enforce the covenant rules (anti-griefing). He is about to lose his SIM and thusly leaves me to look elsewhere for an SL home. None will be so willing to give me Estate Manager rights without earning trust first, as is typical. Hence the option of renting an Open SIM. Since I'm the only renter, I control how much prim and script output there is, which would be minimal.