Acceptance, letting go and moving on.

I understand the need and wish of the LL to make a profit from the growing trend of open space sims being used as more than a waterway and as more than a forest. Why not make a catergory of open space sims. Residential, commercial, and natural (waterways and forest..which is no habitual). I dont know how much the folks at linden labs get out there but there are alot of beautiful sims out there that are open space, and to say it drains resources is that not a fib.

Open space sims are already alloted with in the server space and capacity already and you can not put more on them then what is not allowed. Now there are those of us that enjoy having a openspace sim as a private residence and i am thankful to the individual that i was renting the space from. The logical thing for linden to do is to make the profit in this and cut out the middle man.

I am sorry to the middle men for this statement. But i am now faced with having to move my home because my middle man decided to leave in light of the change in prices. and if it was not for some of the middle men that most of us use, we would not have had the opportunity to even own land in sl.

The prices for aquiring this land from LL is steep and most of us can afford to maintain them but not to set them up. I think it is a real travesty that LL went about this the wrong way. The direction you are heading is to total destruction of a system that many of us have come to enjoy. We have tolerated much and then for the faithful that have not jumped ship and ran to the competitors is something that LL should take into consideration. There is a solution out there that will appease everyone involve or at least the majority.

As for the Grandfathering in of Open Space sims. Why not? they can be the forefathers of what an open space sim can be. Think about it you want sl to grow an it has and it has proven that there are those as myself that have invested time, money and effort into sl. And why should we be subjected to this.

My solution is a simple one:

1. Set up Residential Open Space Sims for premium accounts. This can be at a reasonable price with reasonable prims. (Do a survey to determine what is reasonable). LL will definitely make a profit from this.

2. Set up Commercial Open Space Sims. This can be at a slightly higher tier rate because it is commercial.

3. Set up Natural Open Space Sims. These are what the open spaces was initially set up to be. (in other words Void sims with low prim)


See as I see it this has become an issue because many of us can not afford the Full prim sims not the set up fees nor do we need that much prim or can we afford the Tier. And you can not get an open space with out getting a full prim....ummm a catch 22 for those that have not noticed. Those of us that have premium accounts we have already taken the time to invest in SL why doesnt LL make our investments worth it. I hate to see many of us in sl leave or lose more than we may already have.

This is something for LL to think about and I think this may not be the solution but definitely a start. Many of us choose open space sims to live for the privacy factor being on the main land and having privacy is impossible. and then you get the occasional griefer and on a private open space sim, you dont have that issue. I really hate to have to give up my private open space sim but it seems inlight of current events I have no choice. will i invest more money in to an another place in sl i think not, may be i have an auction of my items and get out while I can. Sincerely hoping linden really look at the big picture and what it will do in the long haul. you need to consider the people who have been with SL and have foregone and sticked with SL through the thick and the thin. Look
at all the down time issues the grid crashes and updates and yet we still keep coming back. Linden Labs needs to really think about this. Why not pose a survey with a place for suggestions before such a drastic change is made. We are the ones that our funds are what helps and even make sl run.

Well the go party wile we get homeless couse i cant afford the mew prices and no ther are not reasonable.

** stop acting like you own sl, nobody is interested in your dumb behavior, your temper tantrums or even your lawyer. Just because you can say the word lawyer over and over again does not make you the fairy princess of neverland. Your smoke screen is purile

Well i just read the post that said we should just accept the increase , well i disagree . i never had a 1800 priom sim , this is my first sim and its all i can afford . i have built my dream there . i have spent thousands of lindens on preping it and getting it set up and its almost complete . i cant afford the increase . beside my inability of affordability , i feel i have a contract with linden labs fo rthe cost of the sim . and now linden lab through their greed have chosen toi break that contract with many people . this is my problem . acceptence is one thing and worng is another .

if they get away with this what is next . triple membership fees? double landuse fees for mainland? what ? many have cancled their paiod menberships over this amd many have just abondanded their open sims and many major realitors in sl are planing to do this before the increase kicks in . as for me i will say good by to my dream , and sit back while linden l;abs loses major profits and simply grin. .........POWER TO THE OPEN SPACE OWNERS

Yeah, OK, fine, I'll move on. Move on out of the OS sim I'm leasing. Thanks for not standing by me and the hundreds of others who joined your group and supporting our wishes.

Let us remember and NEVER FORGET what ** did. There was at first a group called –SOS- that was founded by Cube Republic. He trusted a number of other people to become co owners of this group. Sadly his trust was greatly misplaced in **.

Why? She took it upon herself to go over the heads of the founder of the group and the other co owners to systematically eject everyone from the group. This was done without notice, created mass panic and stress to the members of this group. We were able to transfer a number of people to a new group called +SOS+ thanks to an sl bug that allowed ejected members to keep chatting in group chat. But I’m sure we lost a number of members because of this little power trip.

We all still don’t know why she did what she did. A number of us are quiet angry with her and feel this was indeed a power trip and placed a small set back to our cause.

Instead of trying to work with the other owners of the group or leave peacefully she chooses to take matters into her own hands. After she ejected all of –SOS- group members (at least 2000) she started to offer an invite to another group she founded called “Open Space Project.” This is a closed group because I’m guessing if it wasn’t the group chat would be constantly bombarded with not so nice and “unproductive comments” on where she could shove her group. I had a friend whose name starts with an A received an offer to join the group and he rejected her. I’ve got other friends whose names are down the list but they haven’t gotten invites-gee I wonder why?

Personally I think the only reason why she wants this matter to drop is all the sooner she hopes people will forget what she pulled. I got just this to say to you **: It’s not about you-it was never about you and I’ll never forget what you pulled.

How many Lindens are the Lindens paying you, **?

Just curious.

Why? Because I want to take a more peaceful approach? Trust me, I am also not pleased with what has happened. I disagree with it wholeheartedly. Infact, we are working on a memorial type of dedication to show Linden Lab all of the sims that will be lost as a result of this policy change if it goes through as is. We are also working on a formal inworld petition.

I feel that 6 months ago LL basically introduced a new product to SL users.. the new OP sim with its double prims, fewer restrictions, etc. Of course they knew what they were doing and that they would later raise the prices after we were hooked.. after we purchased thousands upon thousands of OP sims. I feel that they should have been more honest right there and then but they were not in my personal opinion. Instead they give us this classic what seems to be "switch and bait". Had they been upfront, things would be different now. I also did not appreciate the smokescreen and how they tried to place the blame on us for a decision that was probably made since the beginning. What's done is done and yes it's time to move on to the next plan of action.

Of course it is a huge shock and it is most certainly not fair. At min the non profit groups should be a non transfer grandfathered tier. We should have several different type of OP sims.. such as the original low prim void sims.. and the current style, except I recommend 4000 prims.. some in our group suggested an avatar and script restricted sim.. not sure how feasiblet that is though..

Yes I do actually feel 125 is reasonable for the OP sim with maybe 4000 prims.. because do not forget, what we are paying and I have said this before ... but here goes again.. is the space.. of an entire island. Some love and want that space as many of you have proven.

I am not suggesting to simply accept the current proposal as is. I am merely saying that let us try to reach a realistic compromise and that it is better to come away with part of what want instead of nothing... an agreement that is mututally fair to both parties.. Linden Lab and the users of Second Life.

What's wrong with that? I think this type of negociation is much more effective than harassment and violent and agressive protects in public areas which only frighten the poor newbies away.

I also suggest that we lighten up a bit and enjoy our SL again... that's not to say to simply give up but it's a matter of acceptance.. to move on past the hate and anger.. to let go of the hurt and frustration and to try to redirect this energy into a more positive and creative outlet.

What's wrong with this? Maybe if we did this more in the so called real world as everyone calls, there would be less wars.. well, who knows.. I wish John Lennon was here now to offer a few words of comfort.

Kat Linden paid a visit to our group Open Space Project today and I can say that the feeling that we got from her was sincere. Yes I do actually think that Linden Lab cares. She speant a great deal of time listening and answering questions. She has become quite the ombudsman.

She told us all to keep posting in the forums and that they are reading all of the posts, even though there are many... so yes, Linden Lab is thinking on an amicable solution. It's not an easy one.. however, I feel that we are close to reaching one soon.

As for the group that got disbanded.. Cube Republic and his staff were abusive to the members. They members were cursed at.. they were encouraged to violate the ToS and participate in many harassing type of protests in welcome centers.. they were making threats against Lindens.. calling them horrible names, etc.. it was awful.. if people chose to not protest, they were called Fing cowards and even ejected.. so yeah.. they made us all look bad... Then to top it off with, I was recorded without my knowledge or consent , where it was published in the Herald.. shameful to say the least. Hundreds had left the group because of this behavior... he was about to disband since he had created a new group.. hence it was disbanded by me and not him but either way, it was going to be disbanded. Even when he went to the Q&A wirth Jack Linden, he was banned.. you should see some of these nasty messages.. his members have griefed our group so much that we had to make membership invite only..

What do I think from all of this?? After spending a day in tears.. I feel exhausted.. sick of it all and very tired.. all of the hate and anger.. where does it all come from??? Surely not all from a 50 USD tier increase.. somehow, somewhere, the original message seems to have gotten lost in all the rage and fury.

So yes.. I say time to move on.. moving on does not mean giving up.. it means to redirect our energies in a more constructive manner. Want to take my hand and walk.. can I take yours too? together we can support one another .. but honestly I think it's more deep than a tier hike..well, that's my humble opinion.

Probably after the USA election, the economy will improve and we'll look bad on these dark times in SL .. so please let us reflect with a few memories of inner strength and not only anger.

You're right... not the first, wont' be the last... but I have yet to see anything that comes close to what SL is... this is almost 10 years of development by it's users... and even in the last 6-12 months SL has developed HEAPS... it'll be hard for anyone to compare... no matter what they look like on the surface. Just sad to have the community in continuous uproar... *sighs*

10 years? Did SL start and have actual users in 1998?

I thought it opened it's doors sometime after 1999.

People have talked about how it was like 2003/2004 (whether they were right or wrong about their statements), it seems like about 5 years of real user developement.

Anyone know when the initial user base really started?

Firelight

Reasonable is in the eye of the beholder. people around the world can't pay their mortgages let alone $125USD for a nerfed sim.

Yes I can understand that.. so then if you cannot afford it, don't rent it.. don't mean to be rude but at the same time we cannot realistically expect Linden Lab to budget their prices according to our needs. How many of us have actually benifitted from being in Second Life? Commercially and otherwise.. think of it. Oh yeah we love to complain.. and hey I'm not saying everything is roses.. but come on folks, let's not blame Linden Lab for the worlds problems either.

I can manage this as it is still within my entertainment budget. But I am lucky enough to have the money to do this and I do feel for folks making do on a tighter budget..they deserve a great Second Life too.

I'm not a business person in SL except for doing machinima and that is for RL mostly but I do understand that there are folks in SL trying to add to their RL incomes and they matter too.

So I can pay this increase for my 3 Open Sims and I really want to keep them as they are. Combined with my 1 regular sim, my partner and I have created a lovely place that feeds our souls and creativity and we need this space in our lives right now.

But 3 of these Open Sims cost more than one reg sim and has less prims so it is definitely for the space that I like these sims..the amount of visual and build room.

So please Jack, as you make these changes, please consider all the residents and their needs and make sure that whatever you come up with, it is a stable and long term plan.

Thanks for the OP.

I'm going to stick my neck out in this thread too.

Let's address "greed". There isn't a single one of the huge "business moguls" (BMs) in SL who isn't trekking down the same path. I don't know how many times I've been told in these forums that "business is business" . . . especially if I or others criticize their business ethics. These BM's are focused on making money . . . and to heck with ethics. Yet some of these same BMs start crying when LL seems to do the same sort of thing. Ironic.

LL, if I understand correctly from what I've seen recently posted by official sources (correct me if I'm wrong, but give a source please), is NOT publicly owned.

I do feel sorry for the small Open Sim purchasers--they're the ones really getting bit by this unfair policy. And, why? Because, despite the published intent of LL, the bigger BMs here in SL saw an opportunity to profit bigtime . . . and they over-taxed the system, precipitating the current crisis. They're just as much at fault as is LL.

Yeah, LL didn't gauge things correctly as far as projected load. Yeah, their posted policy soon to be implemented doesn't seem fair. But, they have asked for feedback . . . boy have they gotten it.

Now, let's see what they do with that feedback.

I find it hard to understand why people are getting so militant when there's time left before the policy goes into effect--time enough to see how LL will respond to all that feedback.

Bailing out to Open Life seems like a cool, rebellious thing to do; but, after taking a look at their system, I think you're going to run into similar issues and others--that over time--will bug you just as badly if not more. They're essentially still in their infancy relative to SL. Any of you who decide to bail, I wish the best: may you find what you're looking for.

War--in any form--is a terrible thing. There's never a true winner; but there are lots of losers ("Winners never win; losers never forget" . . . and the collateral damage (in this case, the small OS owner) is usually horrendous.

More positive change is achieved by talking and negotiating than by aggressive posturing, ranting, threatening, nasty abusive attacks, name calling, etc.

'Course talking and negotiating is a lot of work--all too many people don't want to exert the extra effort.

The ball's in LL's court; let's give them a chance to see what they're going to do.

Vryl Valkyriem, so what your saying is that when someone treat you like shit, like Linden labs, it's ok to be angry but only for a few days, then we should all just ignore it and move on and let the ones who treat you bad continue to act like ashole?

You have to excuse me, your examples here sounds like well,what to do instead does not make me feel better. Not even the adult animations or shopping for virtual clothes.

But if 125$ is "nothing", can i send you the bills for my 9 watersims? I pay the first 75 for them and you take the rest?

Bravo! I could not have said it better.

First of all, I don't share your opinion of being abused by Linden Lab. I do feel that they have made poor management decisions.. yes and perhaps can even be challenged in a court of law given the right circumstances.. although I am not advocating this.

About your 9 sims.. maybe you need to downsize. Sometimes we have to make adjustments in life... it's all about priorities and what you want most. In all due honesty, I know you and the many others will be hurting from this if the policy goes through as planned and I truly "feel" for you.. and no it's not fair.

I do think it is healthy to vent. But for how long? Like the previous poster said, give them a chance to digest some of the feedback and come up with a thoughtful response.

So, are the Linden's paying by the word now?

.


OMG ! How Bourgeoisie !

.

I think you're missing a BIG point here **. Yet YOU decided to take it upon yourself to eject THOUSANDS, scatter them to the wind and traumatize them. YOU decided to take it upon yourself to override the other co-owners and the founder of the group and commit this action. YOU where way out of line to do what you did. YOU should have just left the group and let others decide if they wanted to join your group. But no YOU forced them to leave and then YOU expect them to come flooding to YOU. YOU took our chooice away and now YOU are trying to tell us all what to do.

YOU...YOU...YOU...You don't care about this issue. All I am hearing from you is the words "Me" and "I" over and over again. Of course you're in tears because you got about two thousand or so people mad at you for doing what you did. Live with the consequences of your arrogant actions.

For the scoop on Vryl, check out the article at:

http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2008/10/vryl-valkyrie-n.html#more

It contains a text listing of all the names of all the residents she ejected from -SOS-

It reminded me of the last time I visited the Viet Nam War Memorial in Washington, D.C.

The list of names just kept going on and on and on.....

What a shame. What a waste.

Okay will you be censoring the others as well?

Wow other posts have been censored now…

LONG LIVE FREE SPEECH!
God bless America-right.

Am I off topic btw?
http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2008/10/vryl-valkyrie-n.html#more

Sure enough..they have turned us against each other and this is a prime example!..

Walentine was building a dream..something he loved enough to put his money..time and effort into and at the prospect of him losing all that you can say...what you did?

Might I suggest that SL could use less of your type and a whole lot more like Walentine..censor me if you will..heck..wouldn't be the first time I've been bleeped out LOL

Having a more peaceful and realistic approach is not turning one against another.. this is merely pointing to a middle ground, finding a workable compromise and a livable solution. Allot of us have broke out into a riot with mob like mentality, ready to break the doors down at LL's corporate office. This will accomplish very little. The original message gets lost in all the muck. If you want to take the legal route, then fine. File a court case. But at least please let us mentally regroup and stop the inner turmoil. This is really too much!

I do think we need to maybe step back for at least a day simply to unplug and connect back into relaity.. because we have become so consumed in the hate and rage. It does not mean the frustration is not warrranted.. it simply means to find a more calmer approach in order to reach attainable goals that are benificial to both sides, by offering possible alternative solutions.. let's focus on that instead of the various groups and factions fighting amoungst themselves. That's just my personal opinion. Feel free to do as you please.