Acceptance, letting go and moving on.

I am sure Vryl means well and even others like Briana mean well but to compromise when your money is being taken from you by the most underhanded tactic is madness.

My view is we should keep the protest going until LL backs down, takes off the charge and leaves us alone.

Let them put the time an effort into managing their servers properly and stop putting it on us. To compomise will just lead to a watered down result and they will still take the money.

They have a history of screwing people. The confidence is gone totally. Everyone is saying it even if they aren't shouting it like some of us.

Linden Labs don't give a hoot for the little people that will loose their homes or the work and time they have put in to build the community of Second Life.

They have 2 years left and they know they will loose dominance in the Virtual market so they are cashing in now. They planned it long ago. They sold the OS with every intention of cashing in a year later.

Well, are we a captive market? We can show them we are not!

Its our money!

It's our community!

Its our Homes!

Its our creativity!

Its our Second Life.

They just own the servers and the code but can they hold us to ransom?

I think NOT. For the alternatives are out there now and it don't matter if you go or stay, or live in more than one world. The power is in OUR hands!

NO COMPROMISE!

In all the sims I manage, I have not seen any abuse. All the people who are on OS in the estate I oversee are very conscious of the fact that they share CPU with others. They care and are very considerate people.

It should further be noted that Jack's initial announcement only mention more money. It never mentioned any additional resources, not until we asked. LL plays greedy, at our expense. This is just plain outrageous! Highway robbery!

Vryl, what are you doing here?

You are busy being the most vocal person telling everyone how they should think while at the same time making all the wrong decisions yourself

You obviously have control issues as demonstrated by your actions with that group, which also says you are more about self-serving then helping the masses.

Ahhh, kind of like LL.

What compromise?

Abandoning and OpenSpace sim, and then selling our full Island Sim so we can buy a mainland sim is not compromising.

It is called 5 years of experience. After seeing shaft after shaft, I am moving to avoid being ripped off by the eventual raise in price for Island Sims now that they have raised the price for OS sims.

They are not going to back off the price increase, even an increase of $25usd is too much.

I am reshuffling our assets and moving to a safer investment - mainland. Is that what LL wants? Probably. But am i not going to do that just because LL wants me to? No, that is called biting off your nose to spite your face. We need some place to go. We have a full sim store and need some place to put it and have 2 full sim projects, 1 starting probably in late December and need some place to put that now since full Islands are no longer safe.

Quiting SL is not an option and I have been a member of the OpenLife grid and OS Grid for nearly a year now, so when and *if* they take off, we are there.

Adapting and overcoming, not compromising.

Oh, Briana. I am not knocking you for your decision. I fully understand your position and you must do what you need to for the sake of your business and your future in the virtual world be it in SL, OL or whereever. Good on you and I wish you every success.

But I think you missunderstood what I mean by no compromise.

What I mean is that some are saying we should let this go and move on. We should try to reason with LL and get what we can out of them. To me that is begging for crumbs and they will only offer just enough to divide oppinion amongst the protestors and they will still get the price increase anyway.

And if they get away with this they will be back for more, and more becuase LL always puts up prices by huge amounts. The full sims will be next.

I say LL should change the policy and stop being dishonest. They must reverse the decision and put their own house in order before they ask us for moderate increases. And I mean moderate not a whooping great 67%

No Compromise means telling LL to do the right thing in no uncertain terms.

Put SOS flags on your land. Keep the forum protest going to Jan 1st and beyond if we have to. Never, never accept any crumbs from them. Reject it out of hand and make the protest louder.

We are a community and all communities in this world are entitled to human rights.

I woud go so far as the say our human rights are being violated with this price hike.

And why?

You know, I read all the posts here and some really sensible arguments have been put forward but the posts that stand out for me are the short little pleas from people who say they will loose their home and their chance to be creative and enjoy their friends.

Some, many, I can imagine are disabled or on very low income and this Second Life is their chance to escape the harsh realities of the real world, even if its just for a few hours now and then.

One of the things I love about SL is that there are so many good people that care about one another. They make friends across the world and it brings people together, overcomes ignorance and prejudice and helps people to learn and educate themselves.

I wont stay silent when I think how many people will be shut out of a good thing.

Sorry but that's they way I feel.

Thank you for clarifying that, I appreciate it and completely agree with you.

I just would also like to clairify what I meant by "moving on" .. I mean to move past the complaining, hate and rage. It really has gotten out of control. Nothing can be accomplished like this. I prefer instead to use our energies more productively, to works towards a realistic solution. That in my personal opinion is not "begging for crumbs". I understand the emotions are running high now, however the constant ranting will get us nowhere. We need solutions. I think we cannot expect for things to not change. We cannot expect for LL to grandfather all of OS sims simply due to the sheer number of them. We can however make realistic suggestions as myself and others have in this thread.

As I understand it, the original poster runs a commercial business on her OS and was one of the "abusers" who created this problem. Now she is telling me, a non-commercial OS owner who pays for this out of her own pocket as a service/content for other SL users to enjoy, that "$125 isn't so bad"???

Talla Slade:
"We are a community and all communities in this world are entitled to human rights.

I woud go so far as the say our human rights are being violated with this price hike."

I'm sorry, but that's absolute tripe.

Much as I'm against this price hike and the manner in which LL is dealing with its Residents and Community, they are not a charity.

They are a company.

Yes, the increase is unacceptable and yes, the way in which LL handle their PR and Customer Service and Communication is equally unacceptable. I also think that the smoke screen they've pulled is also unacceptable.

Posting things like this is reactionary, not constructive and I would even say laughable, but I don't want to add to the farce that is taking place in the groups and the blogs and be inflammatory towards you.

We're making ourselves into a laughing stock.

Since you take my comments out of context I wonder if you think this part is tripe too?




I happen to have a strong view because I read everything, not just what hits me. Reactions are born of half read news and headlines, of people only seeing what they want to see as you did.

There are gangs of people in world who are bullying and threatening people over this issue and I would say they are doing more harm than I ever could,,, or would.

Laughing stock? That's your oppinion. Fine. Linden labs will love you.

I agree that it has nothing to do with "human" rights. It has to do with good faith and reasonable expectation of use in terms of trade and those rights we have to expect good faith.

LL accepted $250, non-refundable set up fees for a service which they knew they couldn't sustain if used to the full extent they were offered. They sold thousands of openspaces, right up until this announcement, with the knowledge that people were abusing them, taking no steps to prevent this abuse even though they were technically able to. Now that they have the deposits, they are changing the price, and most likely the possible maximum use of the service offered.

No, rights have nothing to do with this, not human rights, anyway. Our legal rights in terms of trade, on the other hand, in my opinion, are dealt with in very, very questionable fashion.

You know, I have been reading all the legal arguments and you have shead much light on it. I agree with you, it is a legal matter of course.

As for the matter of human rights I may have been to strong making that comment but, when read together with my reasons I don't feel it should have been called tripe. After all, we do all share the same view about this and each, in out own way, is voicing objection. I don't sling mud at people on my side of the fence.

At least you had the decency to give a clear and sober explaination for why I was wrong to use the term. Thank you. I accept I was wrong.

You were only wrong in that you used the word "human". Semantics, really, and excusabley so.

This is an emotional issue, and for people who who see this in an emotionless way, all the worry about hour "virtual" homes and businesses is so much sentimentality. It feels like human rights to us, sure, but so long as we don't have those rights defined for us by law in a virtual setting, we have to deal with the business practices alone.

I feel your pain, I really do. Things I love in SL are severely threatened by this. People who educate and work in the non-profit realm are not generally people who leave their emotions at home, either, and they are taking this hit harder than anyone. Such callousness is going to provoke ideas like human rights. I don't blame you a bit.

You have brought up an excellent point.. "rights not yet defined by law". Virtual law is still area not yet fully explored and I expect that we shall see more and more virtual type cases challenged in the courts of the world, not only for Second Life but others to come.

First of all, get your facts straight. I am NOT an abuser. I resent you falsely accusing me of such. I have been told more than once by the Concierge team that my OS is well within the range of safe and FAR from abusive. Grr!

Probably wrong. In the US anyway. Avatars do not have rights according to a US Judge. And therefore law does not apply to avatars or some such garbage. Wasn't more than 30 days ago that tidbit landed on the wire if I recall correctly. I.e.; the US Government does not need a warrant to monitor the communications between avatars because they are not real. Oh yea some professor at a naval college said that but nobody has been able to find a public record and apparently this so-called professor has not coughed up the ruling. (Perhaps secret dubya spy on kids playing WoW geedunk?)

As for the topic of this entire forum of various threads, we human customers of Linden Lab are consumers in our respective countries and that is that.

How do you know? I have no clue what abuse is. According to the most draconian perspectives I ahve seen on the forum, openspaces are all about openwater, rocks and trees. If that is the case I would estimate 90%+ of all openspaces are abusers. How many people only use openspaces as landscape?

If not, where is the line? A house iwth no scripts? A house with scripts? A business? A moderate business and a house? Where is this esoteric idea of "abuse" that is suddenly causing them to double teir and revoke parts of the service they marketed to us, where is it defined?

It isn't. It is an excuse in my opinion. Obviously the people who can afford 50 extra bucks are the people who make the most money. The people who make the most money with their property are probably not the ones that just leave it water, trees and rocks.

Don't distract from the real issue at hand by finger pointing and blaming. That is the last thing we need is MORE fighting amoungst ourselves. You made a very strong statement. You tagged me as an abuser. Quite frankly, I'm sick of how some people in the forums love to personally attack and even to the point of stalking posts instead of staying on topic. This kind of garbage is non productive.

*grins*

Would you please quote where I called you an abuser, hon? And you really think that the definition of abuse is immaterial to whether or not you are an abuser? It most certainly isn't immaterial to the current openspace situation, as "overuse" and "abuse" are supposedly the reasons we are suffering it all.

LL's metrics are likely wrong as far as the source goes since the asset system is DDOS'd by the product of the Windlight Team. The Viewer.

So the abusers are the WIndlight Team not the open space sims.

Anyway Windlight is a sacred cow and we will no doubt be banned if we push for the truth too hard.

LL has declared all open space regions to be abusive. It is their playground and their toys. They make the rules. They can jack up the prices all they want. The market drives the price. So if most of Secondlife quits then I guess they made a mistake eh? Sadly it will be too late to recover at that point.

If LL wants to recover they will:

1. Bring in outside experts to determine exactly what is causing the client to be DDOSing the asset system and remove that code and the entire group responsible for the code.

2. Ban traffic falsification end of story. Or remove traffic and profile picks from search relevance.

3. Remove from it's staff and leadership any and all persons with a lack of ethics. (yea right rofl!)

4. Offer 3, 6, and 12 month prepayment options to guarantee pricing points.

5. "Grandfather" the existing prices for 6 months to allow people to make arrangements to acquire a locked in price package. Month to month pricing packages will be subject to change monthly.

And good luck with all that rofl. LL will proceed unabated with zero concern for consumer rights until the US Government seizes control, heavily regulates the metaverse industry, and destroys the entire thing for us all.

Choose your poison carefully.

Be careful what you wish for, etc. etc.

OMG! You're right, lol. I am so sorry. It's early here and I only noticed that you replied to the other post of mine in which I responded to the person who called me an abuser. *turns all shades of various colors from sheer embarassment* PLEASE forgive me for getting you confused with the other person.

lolz, no worries. It happens all the time.

Not really. They have to comply with the standards of business provided by US law. "Bait and switch" marketing is not allowed by US law. They are in a handful of billing cycles revising the terms and pricing of a service they offered. They are raising the price punitively, almost doubling it, in such a way that the exuse, "abuse", isn't even addressed.

I wouldn't think for a moment they can do what they want. People have a reasonable expectation of use of a service the paid a non-refundable setup fee for. I don't think a month or two, only to have your resell privileges limited, your educational benefit revoked, your tier almost doubled, is in ANYONE'S mind reasonable or ethical behavior.

Vryl when are you going to admit your working for Linden Lab???



Enemy Of the State !!!

Renee, then I guess I need a HUGE payraise.