Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

I'm rather disgusted by this. My work partner and I have been trying so had to get a open space sim, and we only JUST purchased one. We can only just afford it as it is, and now you plan this? We are going to loose the sim, and the money we dropped into your company.
If you pass this, you are going to loose allot of income, you charge as dearly as it is for virtual land, and now plan to do so even more with very minimal rewards for us digging into our pockets even farther.
For a company to prosper they need to gain faith of their users, and your doing the very opposite.

Since the "highlighted bits of the blog" you quoted say its "not for building" can you please explain what you're supposed to do with the (recently doubled) 3750 prims they give you? I believe in SL, "building" in its broadest sense consists of rezzing, sizing & shaping, and arranging prims.

As for your statement that "a residence is somewhere you stay, not somewhere you just pass through", that makes absolutely zero sense in relationship to its load on a sim. So if 20 avatars using 20 scripted sailboats during a race pass through an openspace sim that's ok, but if 2 avatars build a home with minimal scripts and stay there, its not. Your logic is... totally missing!

Since I've joined SL, I've started a successful and responsible business and have been for the most part, a strong proponent of a lot of LL's decisions. Unfortunately this isn't one that I wholly agree with, and feel all options are not being explored nor are addressed properly.

The issue with Open Space sims is that yes, the majority of them are being sublet and overused. The issue of simulator load is not limited to the issue of the number of active scripts in the regions, but moreso, the amount of load that individual avatars themselves place on sims.

It has been requested many times, but Second Life has been in dire need of a way for Estate owners and end users to monitor the amount of load they have on a simulator. When an avatar with 1000 attached prims and 70 active scripts attached to their avatar (this is not unique) enters a sim, the region's time dilation takes a big hit. This is exacerbated in Open Space simulators.

There are currently no ways for avatars to effectively monitor and self regulate the load they place on the grid, other than guesstimates from the Statistics window. The Statistics window is in no way intuitive for even many seasoned SL users to understand. The only way a simulator owner can monitor how much load an avatar is placing on a sim is in a roundabout way, by having them sit on a prim with a New script placed inside, so that the avatar links themselves to the prim, and they show up on the Top Scripts Estate Tool, something only the sim owner can see.

There are many possible solutions to the Open Space issue, but also many new issues that arise with enforcement of them. Increasing tier costs does not address the issue of avatars overloading a sim.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
Limit the number of agents allowed in an open space simulator.

Issue: One avatar that is overloaded with scripted objects (huds, shields, AOs, etc) or prims can easily overload a sim, whereas 5 responsible avatars could have a smaller impact than that one avatar. This is not unlike the 'problem' of Open space simulator use-- it is a select group of users taking advantage of available resources, on a micro level.

Workaround: Allow avatars to monitor the script and prim load they place on a server, by adding functions that allow users to see how much of the sim's resources they are hogging.

Limit agents in simulators based on their individual script load.

Issue: Content creators have no way of accurately monitoring the script load their scripted objects create, short of being very savvy users who know how to properly test and benchmark using the Statistics window, and/or being an Estate owner who knows how to properly use Estate Tools. Again this is an issue of users having little to no options for self regulation.

Workaround: Allow users to monitor the performance of scripted objects that they create/own.

Monitor simulator load in Open Spaces and raise tier only on those who exceed a publicized load average.

Issue: Simulator load is largely based on the load the avatars place on it. A malicious end user could sabotage a simulator and raise their tier fees by loading it down with high lag avatars and bots. While these kinds of malicious users can be banned, not everyone has the time for such a high level of micro management.

Workaround: The SL client already collects simulator load data for the performance and reliability metrics that are published monthly by LL. Providing this average time dilation metric to estate owners through the client can help bring their sims into conformity with some kind of Open Space sim standard. Allowing sim owners to filter users in the sim based on their individual script load can help with this, but again, can only be considered fair and justifiable when end users and content creators have the tools necessary for self regulation.

Only allow Open Spaces to be adjoined to regular sims

Issue: The majority of Open Space simulators in the grid are placed in these OS rental groupings that have them placed two spaces apart from each other to cover the most ground. While I feel that this is abuse of the system, changing this would force a lot of people out of their homes, end users who are renting from these estate owners cannot be expected to stay active in SL if they are forced out of their homes.

Workaround: Freeze the policy for existing open spaces so that current end users and renters are not affected and do not allow new Open Spaces to simply be placed anywhere on the grid. This will require a retooling of the Land Store (again).




I am sure there are plenty others, but clearly, the main factor in the problem facing Open Space sims is the fault of Linden Labs not properly providing end users with the tools for self regulation. Without the ability for self regulation on the micro level, it is affecting everything on up. Raising tier prices in no way changes the ongoing problem of avatars not being able to self regulate, it only frustrates responsible users, causes many to leave SL and is not addressing the real problem. Improve Estate Tools and allow self regulation, for a better, more efficient grid!

I just went to the open space sim mos ainsley and saw what an example of Lindens open space usage is.. and it is as someone has said. 3000 plus prims and over 750 scripts running up or down.

I now know what I'm able to do with an open space sim.....

Lindens are banking on owners converting their OS sims into normal sims (at $100 a pop) or returning the sims to Linden Lab who will convert them to more mainland. Many displaced residents will move to the mainland as they see it as the most "stable" option.

Sometime after the 1st the of the year, expect to see a tier increase for private islands to say $395.00 a month. This will trigger the next wave of revolts. More private sims will be shutdown and more residents forced to the mainland due to the cost imbalance.

Then once that dust settles, expect to see a large increase in Mainland tiers, say $295 a month. Users will have no choice but to pay the higher tiers or give up their homes, shops, clubs, etc.

With a highly populated, highly profitable mainland they would be better situated to go public.

This scenario seems much more realistic than their statements about abuse of OS sims.

A quote from a song in the musical "Les Misérables":

Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a "second" life about to start
When tomorrow comes!

Time to man the barricades.

In all seriousness. All BS aside from me. This move reflects desperation and panic. Go back and read Jack's post if ya get the chance. While professional, the underlying tone seems desperate. That's the part that concerns and scares me.

Hell, I don't mind scaling back a bit. Not a big deal to me. But, my God. They knew full well how we would use these damn sims. They knew it.

You can "forest" with less than 200 prims, easy. Throw in some nice trees from Lilith Heart here and there, 400 max.

They didn't know how we would use them. Ain't that a bitc*h...

You Can Not Over Use A Sim So Stop Saying That..

There Is No Way To Go Over The Sims Presit Limits.

All Of This Over Use Crap Is Crap LL Is Filling Your Heads With.

Again Its Impossible To Go Beond A Sims Limitations

I totaly agree with the persons who are AGAINST it. It will effect many RL lives also. The ones who do`NOT complain about it i guess will be mostly the big company`s who are here as i think to avoid tax in RL.

Here is my statement!

What when this goes the way they want ??? The effect it will have is clear i think but what about the linden dollar?? I guess it will be worth much less after that so also a great cutt in your money. When economy goes down it effects that also as i see it in RL so maby better to sell my L$ and keep it on the bank in RL before it isn`t worth shit any more. When i`m wrong so be it.....

This is the way I see it,

Lets create a place that fosters creativity and freedom. Then lets develop an open space sim so that our users can enjoy them and apply their creativity to them, And lets make them affordable, so they can provide living space in the metaverse for people who may not have $1000 us for a full sim, Then lets let them be creative there, And lets watch the success of this, as users develop them and create, Then lets analyze it and realize some are taking advantage and mis-using them, Then lets decide to punish the whole lot for the sins of the few, because we can, and we have covered ourselves nicely in our terms of service, And lets see what happens, and how they react to this. And then lets open up a blog, for them to vent, so they feel empowered. And we will do this, even though, in the real world, this kind of business ethic would bring down a company, and quickly. Because we can.

This is how I see it,

Lindens you guys are unbelievable!
How can you justify raising rates for EVERYONE owning or going to own an "open space" when you know the owners that are going against policy? There are alot of issues here not including new viewer candidates that STILL don't address the major problems with SL after months of testing. Your taking advantage of users of SL and its plain to see.
You don't have to increase rates like this is ridiculous! Why don't you address those in Violation of The OpenSpace policy as you see it and either:

A: Penalize by charging an additional fee(s)
OR
B: One warning and if not corrected by the owner remove them from the OpenSpace no refunds!
Sounds simple to me but to raise rates as you are proposing while NOT providing any better service/less crashes/ instead of making SL pretty with cosmetics we MAY be able to digest it.
BUT..you are not willing to do that. Instead keep feeding us this BS of a client and turn your backs. I say all of SL put a moratorium on buying land PERIOD. One thing people know, no matter where they're from is MONEY and LOSS OF MONEY. LINDENS stop the greed and do right.

I've seen many open spaces sold as "normal sims" by their owners while it was always clear (at least for me) that these sims were not for heavy traffic and use.

I applaud the new policy but I hope LL will also start working on making the mainland a better place and lower the tier fees of people who use the mainland

This will kill Sl it will put an end to anyone who trys to make money in SL or to anyone that is selling house hold goods or houses, it will also put an end to anyone who has a small or large land business in SL, ppl cant afford these prices as they are now so how can they afford a 66% increase in our troubled times in RL. To put it in a nut shell you are ripping us all off and cutting your nose off to spite your face.Its a damm shame and an end to my carreer in SL.

I'd just like to comment that I can get a full web server at a colo with better service than LL has or ever will give for the same price and less than half the set up LL is charging to split one server 4 ways. Either they are making money hand over fist or they are some poor businessmen.

I, like most people, am not even trying to make money. I'm just trying to offset my tier costs. I've about had it. I'm gonna go read a book

I own 2 open sources. I do not rent them out to others and I do not use them for real estate. In fact they are used but maybe i day a week for 4 hours or so. But yet..I need them to keep my business growing. What you are doing is both unrealistic and aggravating. Lets tally up my cost and see.

Current tier rate on my 2 opens sims 150 per month
New rate per month on open sims 250 per month

Tier for a full SIM 295. Anyone see the solution? No problem ill gladly give you 45$ more for 4 times the prims and no lag...But..what about my initial 500$ investment.. Gone eh.?

No Grandfathering..no anything...Just..throw your money away youve given us.

At least give us credit towards a full sim purchase if you wont refund the money..its crazy.

LL you make it imposible for a business to grow here. The economy stinks. Noone spend smoney fo rthing sanymore here and now price son eveything will be raised as ppl scramble ot make up the difference in tier cost. Or even worse..just abandon it and close.

So many beautful things will be gone. What do you care? as long as your families have a million dollar christmas..

Do you think this will drive mainland prices up? More ppl will buy? Theres a real reason ppl dont buy mainland..Its lagged to hell and they have no control over it.. who would want to


All this is going to do is make ppl mad so they leave the game
Good job building up the eceonomy after you halted gambling.. Way to go!

Happy New Year SL Residents...Open up your check books.

After venting I will just say that:

all the stories about abuse are just excuses.

No one of Lindens will have believed before that all the people buy a sim with 3750 prim allowance just for leaving it a plain waterworld. Anyone who will try to tell me such is either blind or dishonest. All the design and price model was clearly aimed on what it finally was used for mainly: residential islands for privacy. Its a clear and fair deal: quarter of capacity for a quarter of the price.

Now Lindens find themselves suddenly in the position that its more successful than expected, hurting mainland sales.. and THATS the only "abuse".

So they try the "clever" move to raise the tier dramatically to make it unattractive again.

Ok, I will give up my home and expect Lindens to pay back my set up fee. My roleplay full sim will stay for now.. at least until they find that these are abusive as well and need a price raise.

As of January 1, I will be homeless, my partner and I cant afford such a huge increase. Many people will be in the same boat. No doubt our home on a 1/4 sim will be placed on the market in the next few weeks hoping to recover some of the money we have spent on it. There is going to be a mass exit from ownership and in the long run you will find that less people will buy open space, great from your database but not for your financial profit. I thought at first you have forgotten the decimal point and even then that is a lot of money. This is just mind boggling. We arent a company, due to illness and economy downturn neither of us work, our only form of entertainment has been SL, now we wont be able to afford it.

first part i can get but second part not, i guess you have mainland right?

1 for all and and all for one..... and all means we all together and not only you

Well, if you're going to take that approach, I would say to raise the tier fees of people on Mainland so they can pay more of their fair share, too..... starting with your tiers :}

Some word from the Lindens in all the chaos would be nice.

PS - Yes I do own an OS which is primarily parkland and my home (the Lindens liked what we did with it and complimented it when they visited). I use my main sim for business and for entertainment. That will all change now as since I made no profit from owning both I will be forced to reaccess, drop the OS and move on. I am just praying that the main sim is not doomed to a tier increase...

But, still waiting for a reaction/rebuttal/recanting/re-anything from LL.....

You should do two things:

1. Inform the abusers about their abuse. Give them a grace period to repair ALONG WITH A METHOD OF KNOWING IF THEY ARE COMPLYING (such as traffic meters, bandwidth usage, etc.)

then, after the grace period

2. Charge a tier equivalent to their usage to the continued abusers. If it IS being used as Openspace requires, leave it alone (0% increase). If it is NOT, raise the tier to the full Normalspace amount (400% increase).

It is not fair to make the across-the-board increase, when many Openspace owners are acting appropriately. I fear massive exitus of SL users if this approach is taken.

If you would like further discussion send an IM, it goes to my e-mail.

DK

1 X full sim =15,000 and $295.00 tier per month.
4 x open space @ 3750 prims each = 15,000 and $500.00 tier per month.




з.ы. начиная со времен закрытия казино...линден лаб методично вбивает гвозди в свой гроб..вот и очередной..

Casual observance indicates to me that increasing monthly tiers by 67%, while it may be great business practice for someone building their "golden parachute", would in the long run be killing the goose that layed the golden egg (sim owners and residents).

A couple of suggestions Jack:

1. If you are aware of "abuse" on these OS sims, should LL not be able to monitor those offenders and take appropriate action? This would necessitate specified limits.

2. Why not place specific limits on OS with regard to a cap on the number of avatars, scripts etc., then make it retroactive?

3. Impliment your $125 tier on OS effective 1 January 2009, but grandfather all sims currently owned as of a specific date... say 31 October 2008?

So many people have come to SL to enjoy their perception of fantasy. The events of the past 24 hours may do irreparable damage to the foundation of SL. When the private sim owners start leaving and taking their money with them, you will be left with casual players and free accounts who spend nothing inworld, or cannot afford to sustain this. I certainly hope you rethink this strategy...

Presumably LL can do a simple database query that can measure the usage of all openspace sims over a 24 hour period

Take the top 25% high usages, and send notice to the purchasers that they have one month to reduce their excessive usage, then deal with those that don't. Those that have set up stores, nightclubs etc full of temp on rez and bad scripting to lag the place to death are causing the problem, not those choosing to build a home, sail, or whatever.

We have a low prim island in our small estate of regions, which is used as a 'sandbox' for staff only. It's got maybe 500 prims and very few scripts on it - specifically because we needed a place to create things to show potential clients design concepts, which may need floorspace but not thousands of prims in detailing them at that stage.

We, like many others, are suffering from your new policy because we chose to use the opensim for its intended 'low usage' purpose. Why is it every time a group of residents is punished, those that aren't responsible for the problem are those that suffer the most, whereas the most guilty get away with it and laugh in your face whilst doing so. Look at the people who got bans because one of their prims overhung a parcel boundary by 0.5m whereas people with full bright spinning adverts in the air spamming everyone in 100m and making noises and emitting particles were left to screw up SL for everyone around them, devaluing land and driving people away.