Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

It sounds to me like the land developer who has created a beautiful area where I live in SL, with 13 connected open sims and lots of water to cruise in, is going to have to fold. If he bails I can't sell my land or pay the new tier, I just lose it, right? Is Linden Labs going to refund the cost of sims that they close or will I just be out the $130 US I bought it with only a couple of months ago. I'm stuck, aren't I?

There is no one in our 13 sim area who is abusing the space or server memory. I am using less than half of my prims. Some sims have nothing on them. Why can't Linden Labs go after the the abusers and let the rest of us enjoy our Second Lives? If I'm wrong, someone explain it to me.

Instead of mindlessly spouting the same old claptrap over and over and over again, please answer Argent Stonecutter's question to you:

What does it mean to "live on a sim"?

I agree with you 1000%

You are correct

if it is only about the high performance usage why dont lindenlab just limit it instead of complaining about it???

would be a pretty easy way to limit the allowed amount of people or active scripts on a sim and the allowed size of land.

there is no way of making me believe that all this is another reason but to make more money now that it is obvious that people buy more land as the price and prims are more attractive for open space land for the past year.

You miss the point BIG time. But I think it is clear that there are people that still hang onto the notion that it is NOT a blemish on a company which encourags through policies, pricing, wording and enforcement (or lack thereof) the use of a product, made large profits from it THEN turns around and says... hey....if you're gonna use it like that you need to pay more.

It's not like cigarettes you know. Although I don't sit and tell a poor schmuck with lung cancer. Hey stop crying you whining wheezing metastatic slob. You smoked em.

Only a regular sim owner may purchase an OSR. So that means only a person with the investment of purchasing a regular sim, and then one or more OSR, may own one. They cannot be owned without owning a regular sim at the same time.

Regular sim owners many times sublet portions of all of their regular sims, and in turn will grab a couple (not necessarily four) of OSR for rental.

OSR as rentals are good for sim owners and for SL/LL. They allow residents who choose not to purchase land (for whatever reason) to have a 'place' in RL.

[see previous post here on need for SL residents to have a 'home'.]

OSR *are* more desirable as a tenant because - as many times enumerated in this Discussion - they allow a high(er) degree of privacy, AND full control over a sim.

The (current level of ) relative low prim count of OSR shows they work well for residential use.

The use of OSR for business or clubs - as opposed to a private residence - can be easily seen in just the traffic count. A residence will not have a high traffic count, even with the private party.

As for non-profits - OSR allow them to have additional *private* lands as adjuncts to their main private island. Increasing the fees at a time in RL when the economy is going south is not a good idea.

Posts like this annoy me to no end. Think a little more, if you would. To me, SL is not just a game, it's my main source of income. I literally pay my real life bills with it, and if this goes through, I'll lose my home where I do my product development because the estate owner will be pulling the OS sims. To those of you who say "You aren't supposed to live there!" I will direct to Mos Ainsley, a linden-owned open space sim which was mentioned earlier in this thread.

It has over 800 active scripts.
It has over 3000 prims.
It's latency for physics alone is 12-15ms
It's latency for scripts is around 5ms

I wonder how many more linden sims are like that? I went in with a friend and rented out an OS sim because it was affordable privacy. If they didn't want us living there, they should never have given us over 3000 prims to play with. We maintain our latency very low, and it's an almost constant 0.0ms for physics and scripts. The friends we have visit don't know the difference between our sim and a real sim, because the performance is comparable.

I can't afford a full sim, and I certainly can't afford the new price for OS sims. I feel like my friend. Even if our estate owner were not pulling the OS sims, I still wouldn't feel comfortable giving LL more of my money. OpenSim is looking to be more and more of a viable option.

If SL is just a game to you, fine. Thats one of the things that is/was great about it. It can be what you make of it. But to some of us it's a living, and a means of getting by in the real world. Try and respect that, even a little.

exactly ... a standalone sim meant to be used as a scenic park or an open space of water for 3750 Linden trees or 3750 sculpted tuna fish....

right?

scenic needs to be seen... not isolated.........

1.it was supposed the system was always more efficent and now the Lab is scared for some avatars on openspace?
2.if I rent a little land and I do a very succesfull crowded club nobody tell me nothing!
3.what about the 95% of full sims deserted, the Lab will reduce the tier I suppose?!

Here's my 2 cents....

Having many open spaces that are used for sailing is a daunting task. We have always used an active managing approach to try to find that balance between light use and an acceptable managed use. I think we in the USS have found a pretty good balance in using an open space for residents and keeping it light use enough for sailing, flying and general enjoyment for everyone.

There have been many times that we have asked residents to turn scripts off or pick up prims since they are lagging the sim. Many don't understand but they do it anyway. Why are we singled out as deserving this? Not everyone that owns these open spaces are abusing them.

I find that LL could have helped with more adequate information. Like what does "light use" mean to them. Because it sure means something else to the rest of the world. What about the adage "actions speak louder than words?" When finding answers we have often been left to figure it out. When LL raised the prim allowance and only SLIGHTLY the tier and purchase price, that sent out a very different message. It seemed ok for us to use these islands as we were doing already. Its possible, that the definitions for light use are lost somewhere in the mass amount of info that is around, but it seemed that it was up to us to find that golden number of prim/script usage. There is also the fact that no one wants to be in a laggy sim. So, with that going on, wouldn't the market correct itself eventually of these overloaded sims because of lost visitors, business or buyers?

I for one am very disappointed by Linden Labs and their miss understandings that it really is us land buyers, developers and dreamers that have made SL what it is today.

Will LL outright ban everyone flooding the welcome areas with -SOS- flags right now? I would be considerably more likely to buy sims if griefers were dealt with harshly, in an immediate fashion.

A better solution would be to formally define "light use" and make sure everyone sticks to it. Money as a form of social control only works when people have an idea of what is expected of them.

If LL had actually stopped people from misusing the Openspace to begin with, they wouldn't have these problems now. If LL had made it clear what is and isn't allowed, they wouldn't have these problems now. If LL had just done the right things from the beginning, all of this wouldn't have to be.

The problem is not that people misused them. It's that LL didn't step in from the start and laid down clear rules. That's like blaming a kid for taking candy without asking - if the parents don't correct them, the children won't know they're doing something wrong.

A lot of honest people are screwed over by this because LL didn't do the right thing and enforce the proper use of the sims in the beginning. They've let people run around do their thing without correcting anyone on false usage. And now that problems are starting to occur they are too lazy to punish the abusers LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE and simply demand to be paid more.

It's not a solution, it's called being lazy and not doing your job right.

I looked for the JIRA vote about this, the URL is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1776 for those who may agree with it.

After all, there's nothing so democratic as a vote to show what the users think.

Please consider voting for this JIRA to protest at this decision by LL.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1776

Doubt it will do any good at all but what the heck....

http://www.sl-liveevents.com

grrr hate that links dont woek here, just copy and paste!

I disagree - LL is carefully tuning their pricing model to match the abusers, who will stay right where they are because it is a still a bargain for them. The only ones who'll abandon their open spaces are the ones who purchased them to be economical open spaces for "light use." There is no longer an option in the price list for these customers - the choice is paying for a full estate sim and waste the resources and money, suffer with the new void model which is heavy use and moderate price, or move back to mainland, which is low price, but not open space.

/me wonders if the person who attached the American Revolution 1776 jpg knows that Jack's in the UK..

Maybe snowflake is Jack in Drag!

Just a thought :


If they need a solution, The people who have 4 pks = 1 sim should certainly pay the same thing they pay for their mainland sim. We essentially pay for a server and the service OF these servers in either case.....

why doesn't considering alternative solutions rather than , pretty much destroying businesses, homes, parks, and economy of LL during a global recession? ?? ?? There is no common sense here..

SL is going down for having absolutely no content, but more and more bugs and idiots...
RL nearly same now..
and you want more moneyfor less than average?

I already wonder why we pay so much for so small amount of placement ( I have in another online SIM 2600 locks free with my house), and for letting us be your BETA tester.

I'm already on half way to delete my whole work and give up, so make more bullshit, help me save my money by giving more reasons to quit !

Minda Vlodovic said

If LL had actually stopped people from misusing the Openspace to begin with, they wouldn't have these problems now. If LL had made it clear what is and isn't allowed, they wouldn't have these problems now. If LL had just done the right things from the beginning, all of this wouldn't have to be.

....

JZ Paine said

I am sorry but I am trying to sympathies with some of you but just can't. You cry when you see that you must tell your tenants that the sim wil have to go because Lindens raised your rent. Well, if all of you took just 10 minutes to find out what a Openspace area would allow or not allow then you would not be in this pardicument.

.....

I have to wonder if these people (and many others) are on payroll or just blind.

They did make it clear. 100 avs. 3750 prims. which part don't you understand?

I will be happy to join any legal actions that are started against this mess LL has given us. I have one full sim and one OS used as ocean but that will have to go now. This whole thing smacks of fraudulent business practices and I sincerely hope that this backfires on LL shady ways. But with Zee Linden coming from an internet company HouseValues Inc that had bad and dubious business practices, ripping people off (Google John Zdanowksi and HouseValues Inc) and the CEO an Ex Aol'er what hope have we all got

double post. *delete

After 1328 posts to this forum there is one reply from Jack who pretty much states that the decision is made ( as usual) and screw you the customer.