Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

i for one do not understand all the ins and outs of LL, sims, scripts, etc. i did understand the post however that open sims are not being used as intended.

my request is, can you instead of raising tier and prices for EVERYONE (which would include tons of people who use them as directed, suggested, etc) raise the prices on those who do NOT comply to the terms of usage? OR better yet, make it so they can NOT use them for more than you intended?

it seems this would be a way to solve this issue at what you have said is the real problem, and not penalize those who have used the sims according to your hopes.

i'm sure you don't want thousands of residents upset and create more ill will, so why not just make it so the sims CAN'T be used other than as planned? that seems logical to me. i can't put more than 15k prims on my sim, it's not possible. so can you make "open" sims ONLY for use as you intended?

*note: i rented an "open sim" back in the day of the "dreamland" ocean opening, and i remember quite well that "anshe and company" made SURE they were being used as "sold", it seems that would be the route to go.

i await your response.

respectfully,

caLLie cLine

snowflake, you are trolling. One of the many classic definitions of trolling: posting to cause drama or tension where otherwise less would exist or posting to be contrary or irritate others. EVERY post you make is flagged as such now. Good day to you.

deleted by poster

Have you at Linden Labs COMPLETELY lost your sense of decency? This is an absolute outrage, and you are doing MORE harm than good. If I have to deal with and suffer with the extra lag in-world while you people figure out how to catch up with your resident use and growth then I am MORE than happy to do so, without complaint, if it means I won't be out the $80,000L (!!!!!) I paid for my Dreamland open space sim. This is a criminal move, and people will LITERALLY be losing hundreds of thousands of US dollars grid wide because Linden Labs can't seem to figure out how to manage their networks and keep up with the inevitable use and growth that they SURELY saw coming. Not only will you see boycotts and protests, but you better damn well expect a class action lawsuit for the money we will all lose because of your poor business practices.

I thought they gave them an option to cancel.

They should certainly give options to people now. They should have suspended selling them a month ago.

It's just so that you can announce yet another way to rip off your customers.

A little math:
A full prim sim supports 15000 prims. 4 of them run to a server. Thats 60000 prims supported by the server.

An OS sim supports 3750 prims and 4 of them run per CPU - 16 per server, thats 60000 prims supported by the server.

Same server, same pipe, same usage, and now almost twice the cost to your customers (4 OS sims will cost 500/mo vs. 300 per month for the equivalent usage on full prim sims).

It is rediculous for you to announce an increase in tiers as some sort of answer to the request/needs of the residents. You obviously have only heard the ones you choose to hear. We have been complaining loudly and consistently since you engineered this mess 6 months ago.

Awhile back, in order to manufacture a land rush of tiers, you doubled the prim allowance on OS sims. A welcome gift.... we thought. They were already being used primarily as residential sims, which was easy to spot at the time. You knew their intended use and encouraged it with your actions while disclaiming it with your words. What message does doubling the prims on the OS sims send? that they are for water? Crap. So you doubled the prims, then halved the initial fees, raised the tiers (slightly) and engineered a solid gold land rush.

Well it worked, so well that you cant rent an island at near cost. Now that you've driven the value of land into the toilet and you cant rent a sim at $96/mo or sell it at $100, Now that you want to encourage people to bid $L 100k for tiny plots in Nautilus, you decide to drive landowners completely out of business so we wont compete with you anymore.

Bravo Jack, first you rip us off, then you rip us off, then, just to drive the point home, you rip us off again

Thats all this is, you have refused to comment or respond at all for months now while there have been a cacaphony of complaints about it, why not just clear the air and tell the truth, finally?

And of course... now that we will all want to convert the OS sims you pumped out at such a fantastic rate back to full prim sims so we can still earn a living with our stores... you will thrash us with more fees.

LL has become a disgustingly corrupt system, I used to love it here. Now I can barely stand to connect and fight through 6FPS to check on the stores.

nothing new there Phil....
they did it with the Full SIM price cut too.. let ppl buy in and lose over 600USD within a few months...

we should be getting used to the MO by now.

/me waves at Callie


I think I'm going to check with my bank, and see if there is any recourse...seems like if it was paid through my credit card, I should be able to challenge it.

The timing couldn't be worse.

The rising dollar is already increasing the cost of SL for many of its non-US residents. In real terms SL costs Europeans round 25% more than it did a few months ago. That's just life but many will probably already have been reconsidering how affordable SL is as a result.

The global financial climate will also have people both within and outside the US, reconsidering how much disposable income they have for activities such as SL.

As such, it is likely that there will already be many cutting back on their monthly expenditure into SL. That isn't the time to increase prices.

Matthew

I mean really, it has been clear since SL passed the "1 million" mark that SL was no longer about the people.

It is about investor motives, alliances with companies such as IBM, and maximizing profits lines in all areas including 3rd party developer services.

Even the moving of these posts from the front page is an effort to hide the old face of SL from the new people who won't know any better.

Thank god I didn't waste money on the open sim. My one tiny sim treads water as a rental at 199 a month.

I can't even imagine how those paying 295 monthly are making ends meet.

But hey, at least LL profits will continue to rise.

I think one of the most upsetting features of this is that LL never once that I saw announced that there was an investigation into poorly maintained open space sims. They did not stop others from purchasing them directly from LL or stop any full sim requests to four open space sims.

For me, it's not so much the rate increase that I cannot afford no matter the reason...it's the extremely poor way LL handled not only the announcement but the continued ability to provide something that they were investigating as poorly maintained pieces of land up until the announcement was made.

I also fail to see how higher tier will result in less lag. But maybe they want us to drop the islands so they can free up servers to open more main land? Dunno. I won't be purchasing any sort of land if I can't manage to save the one I currently own. How do I trust that LL won't then turn around and say "due to people not using the land properly, we must raise the teir....."

I can't take that chance.

I thought they gave those whose orders were in the pipeline an option to cancel. They can't do that now, of course, because the orders are filled pretty much instantaneously. BUT they should certainly give refund options going back a month or so.

What are you are trying to do raising the prices of open space sims?

You are screwing everything up yet again. First you screw us with the 675 price drop of the 15,000 prim sims, abd now you're tying to screw us with raising the prices of open space sims.

Four open space sims are suppose to equal a whole full prim sim, and you're raising the open space sim prices way beyond that, so youneed to give us more prims to make up the difference. You are doing nothing good here, and you're just screwing the SL residents.

The Residents are who made SL what it is. With out us, SL would be nothing. You need to treat us with respect and stop trying to squeeze every last dollar from us like you are now.

If you can't handle the concierge job, you need to step down as your really screwing it up.

Look at the economy Do you really think people are going to do this?
The Economy is getting worse not better all your going to do is drive people out ther land and out of SL. You're screwing up big time.

We little peopel are who made SL what it is today. And with out us SL would be nothing and running us off will make SL nothing again and no big companys will come here if noone is here. Now days SL is not the only wrold like this there are many others poping up all over and this will drive alot of people to them. People will not stand for this open space sim price inflation.

If open space sims were never ment to be used by people then why did Jack make it so everyone could get them in singles?? and ontop of that make it so the prims are raised form 1875 to 3750??
This B/S needs to stop its going to run alot of people away. Like me I have 98 open space sims.

Got a kind of metaphysical question about the whole idea of a "residence" in SL...

What does it mean to "live on a sim"?

I didn't have a "house" on my First Land. I never had a house there. It's my "home", but there's nothing resembling a home there... unless you count a horse trailer without any furniture in it, or a handful of seats on an open deck next to a pile of broken TVs. Avatars don't need bedrooms and kitchens and bathrooms and couches and BarcaLoungers and hot tubs and Lay-Z-Boys and all the rest of the "house" stuff.

So if that deck was on an OpenSpace sim, would that count as being "lived on"? It looks more like a park, albeit a fairly compact one, than a residence. Would I need to have a house there?

I did have a house on my other parcel, on dAlliez' estates, for a while. You had to look for it to find it, though, because it was under water beneath a submarine sky with an easily annoyed barbecue grill and fish swimming out of the pond and into the rain. It looked more like a park above the water, and still does. I'm hardly ever there. Is that where I live, or would I need to put the house back?

If I bought land in Nautilus and turned my house into a burned-out shell, like Dingle did with his place in Tigger, would the neighbors complain?

Mostly, I live wherever I am. If that's an OpenSpace, would that be a problem?

Just what *is* a residence in SL?

I didn't suggest you would be happy if someone's pet had died. I said you would rub it in their face that the dog wasn't on a leash. Maybe your reading comprehension is a bit lacking.

How can you say what people would be deprived? Do you have any idea how much money can be lost? Maybe I can send you a $L 1 in-world so you can buy a clue. Many people are losing REAL dollars in this as they have invested and will now lose. You are making a hasty generalization to state "No one is going to die from this, or even be deprived of a necessity. "

There are many here who have done the right thing and kept check on script usage, been model citizens yet they are not going to be deprived of anything, right? Now that they cannot afford the new tier they will lose their initial investment - To many, in today's economy, 250USD is a lot of money. Most have had their islands less than 6 months! Shame on you for trivializing the situation.

I have two voids in winterfell, along with my partner who also has two. we worked together to make them a place for people to explore an enjoy. This increase potentialy destroys this. I should be crying and gnashing my teeth but from the moment i heard this ive simply felt nothing. This is an indicator ive lost faith.

Any business i was attempting to establish with my building goes down the loo.

Some of us wanted 15k prims but distributed over a wider area.... like, well us.

Just adding my voice im not one for the complexities of how or why there doing this.

Please for the love of Christ dont raise it...

Thankyou for listening.

How does increasing the price on an OpenSpace sim reduce the load caused by it?

Jack you trying to tell us that open space sims were never ment for peole to build on or live in and a big fat lie.

Open spaces use to come in sets of 4 and were only 1875 prims, until aprial of this year.
If they were never ment for use of people other the water. Why did you raise the prims to 3750?? that makes no sense

and Im Tired of your BS jack

I've been around SL since before you were a linden and ever since you became one you do nothing but screw up and screw people You need to step out of this job and let someone else handle it who will not screw up like you

You need to be fired or step out of that job before you destroy SL anymore then you have.

If there have been complaints about some abuses or misuses of OS, why not find a way to educate the offenders and if necessary crack down on the individuals causing the problems? Why punish everybody for the alleged wrongs of a few? There are some worthwhile people who made good use of OS who will be hurt by this overly broad and rather sever sounding response. Could LL not try again to find a way to address the problems without killing the good projects? Maybe there is some middle ground or compromise you could make that would encourage those who have not abused the OS and allow them to keep their projects going?

He said they are going to scale the product. My guess is they will reduce the number of OSRs on a single server.

in a perfect world no?

i still think this is a way to try and make mainland look more attractive.
first the adfarms get cleaned up
then theyre offering themed double prim parcels..
then they hike the price of voids.

full sims .. i hold my breath... if they mess around with the tiers/prices anymore...
the slow drain of residents might just turn into a vortex.

It won't. This is from the blog (bolding by me):-

The idea is to pay for the "overuse" rather than prevent it. In other words, the overuse will continue, but it will be paid for.

If there was any doubt in your ethics you have opened your mouth and removed all doubt.

Again Linden Lab wanders down the path in the woods, comes to a fork and takes the wrong path. There are many other better ways of controlling open space sim abuse than this. All this is going to do is reduce the number of private land owners thus reducing your gross revenue. Did a bean counter come up with this stellar plan or did it just fall out of one of your heads. Personally we do own 1 open space used as it was designed and I will just drop it and convert the funds into retail space with the express intent to remove as many lindens from the game as possible. I am very disappointed in your lack of prescience, after all you created this mess all by yourselves and now you lay it back on your customers to bail you out once again. There is a limit to patience and you have now reached that line in the sand.

Just like the open free accounts to any child that wanted to play in an adult world you again have demonstrated extremely poor planning and a total lack of what one might call adult thought processes.

It is time for you to be honest with us as to the reasons behind this decision OH, and while you are at it why don't you post accurate subscriber numbers there is no way you have over 10 million users unless you have one of the most pathetic user verses subscriber ratio's in the industry.

Again, with the smoke and mirrors. It no longer works LL

Initially the new price cuts weren't going to be in place until the new land store was open, it wasn't at the time. The blog announcing the price cuts said that orders placed before the new land store was open would be at the old rate.

How on earth they thought people wouldn't cry foul over that is beyond me. A day or so later they'd changed that policy and were offering cancellations or .......a free openspace!

Because people cant afford to keep them, so by doubling the rate forces people people to abandon them rather then offeing folks a refund of the base costs.. it is cheaper for them to force you out then pay you back and ask you to leave.