Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

@ snowflake the not so hidden alt of a land baroness.


snowflake, you're a troll, and unlike the person you're accusing, YOU are the one making personal attacks. By the way, I do know who you are the alt of and I do hope you know that many others do too. if you cannot keep on topic, be intelligent (since clearly you do not understand the differences, for example, between advise and forbid), then kindly do not post on these forums. Thank you.

Its just so that you can announce that you need more money then you are already getting.

A little math:

A full prim sim supports 15000 prims. 4 of them run to a server. Thats 60000 prims supported by the server.

An OS ism support 3750 prims and 4 of them run per CPU - 16 per server, thats 60000 prims supported by the server.

Same server, same pipe, same usage, and now almost twice the cost to your customers (4 OS sims will cost 500/mo vs. 300 per month for the equivalent usgae on full prim islands).

It is rediculous for you to announce an increase in tiers as some sort of answer to the /request/needs of the people. You have only heard the ones you choose to hear, obviously.

Awhile back, in order to manufacture this land rush of OS sims, you doubled the prims for OS sims. they were already being used residentially, primarily, which was easy to spot. You knew their intended use and encouraged it. Doubling the prim allowance on them said what? they are for water? crap. So you doubled the prims, then halved the price and engineered a solid gold land rush.

Now that you've driven the value of land is into the toilet and you cant rent an OS sim at $96/mo or sell it at $100, Now that you want to encourage people to bid $L 100k in Nautilus, you decide to drive the nails in the coffin of landowners.

Thats all this is, you have refused to comment or respond at all for months now while there have been a cacaphony of complaints about it, why not just clear the air and tell the truth finally?

No one said you could not post here. If you actually had insite or information to add to the conversation there would be no issue. the issue is pointless posts about nothing that are designed to do nothing but tick people off.

Only real solution is to continue to report you for every troll post you make and hope you get banned.

Have a pleasent day.

There was also a fourth service, where you had a guaranteed base capacity but could use up to a full T1... so long as nobody else's guaranteed base capacity needed it. It usually cost more than a burstable T1 (but a lot less than a full T1) and had more predictable costs.

That's what the OpenSpace looks like now, except it doesn't have any mechanism to guarantee that base capacity when multiple users are sharing the line.

Depressing

Just adding my vote, even tho LL will do whatever they want. I own no land of any kind, it's still plain to see why this is so upsetting. The price increase in this "solution" bears no correlation to the problem. It looks like LL is using something people dislike (faked residentials from OS's) to sneak in a profit booster. While I will never fault a corporation for trying to make a profit, it's the heavy-handed categorical distribution of it over all OS owners' backs that's the jaw dropper. Punish the innocent.

If the problem is abused OS's then fix the problem:
* reduce prim to 1850 (prims is most fluent to everyone, low-prim="light use"
* cap AV's at 1/4 normal (12? or maybe 15?)
o (scripts self regulate really)
* return to 4-pack-only selling (grandfather existing singles)
- (at the minimum offer a 4-pack discount at the old rate/tier)
* get rid of the owner xfer as proposed (accountability drops each hop)
* leave the price low (to encourage more purchases)

the use would stop being "double" what you expected. (you dbl prims but didn't expect double use??? - I really don't get that one) The people who need the prims would need twice as many OS's or just buy a full sim. LL gets more operating money that way instead. It would be an interesting metric to try to obtain: I believe the average user "needs" a certain amount of prims to be comfortable/happy. The OS equation is merely a matter of how many virtual meters it's spread over - which spreading them out feels LESS crowded/more comfortable. The amount of impact to servers is still user derived no matter how it's configured.

Oh and stop producing double prim lots if you need money for resources. Nautilis is running at what sort of price compared to normal full sims?

We have been conned. There is no over usage. If four open space sims are on one server, equivalent to one full sim, and you own all four open space sims, then who is suffering? i rent out two private residential islands per one open space sim and i own all 8.. which means NO one other open space sim is suffering because of mine, as i own all the open spaces on that server... having said that, NOT ONE of my open space sims are laggy or over loaded. An average traffic of no more than 5 or so people at one time.. simple scripts that tenants use for their home, NO shops, NO clubs NO high traffic, NO heavy scripts.

heres some question worth considering.. Did linden labs trick us to into believing it was ok to use these open space sim for residential? .... this is why i think they very much did!!!!!
A) why did they allow people to buy 1 instead of the old 4. and hence making it look so attractive to everyone, and ultimately flooding the market.
B) with their massive amount of techies and brilliant minds, WHY did they not enforce an actual restriction on script use and agent limit in the actual open space sim coding
C) why did they DOUBLE the prim allocation if these sims were "intended" for ocean! they gave us more prims to use, now we use them and screwed for it
D) why was the term "light use" so cleverly used, its vague enough to make sure this kind of thing would happen. why did they not, upon actual purchase of an open space sim, inform us of the exact agent limit, and what the maximum script usage would be to their comfort.
E) they clearly said, if we over use these open space sims, our ONLY danger would be that linden labs would NOT give us support if we had problems, they DID NOT say that if we have more than a few hills and trees, they would raise our tear by 60%!

I have no doubt in my mind that this "over usage" and "abuse" is a lie, if it were true, then re establishing open space sims, possibly into three chategories would surly be the answer.. .........
1) low weight- low tier (actual ocean and fields, no traffic and no content) .
2) medium weight- medium tier (2 or 3 residents per open space sim, with basic homes, low scripts, low traffic, low content)
3) heavy weight ( small business, still with only the 3700 prims, and an agent limit of 40, as is advised!)

The initial cost of all my islands was well over 7000 us dollars, not including two years of land tiers, which if im forced to abandon any, conveniently for LL i simply lose all the purchase fees. Ive invested over two years to building a big community The kaiya islands have added value and fun for a lot of people on second life. This may well be the end of my sims, my community and my business. Not only because this price increase no longer makes it viable to run these sims, simply i don't think this is an ethical nor stable environment to build anything.

Maybe it was like this:

'we have to reduce the prims of openspace again to make them less attractive'

"oh no that would bring the owners onto the barricades"

'oh no problem... let's announce an insame price gain and after that let's tell them ok, we will keep the old price BUT we will reduce the prims per OS sim significantly'

"Hell yes! that's a great idea and they would even thank us for it!"


Well... we will see what they plan next... maybe tons of more Mainland Sims on all the free Servers which they get now, killing the Mainland Market too which is already on its knees.

I do not know who your adviser should dismiss him .... but many businesses have closed the rl for much less. Go at a loss because our confidence has its limits, you can stay as some of us are sure that after the opensim increase the cost and charge the full sim. Have you decided to quit this virtual world in this way. A smart business policy at a time like this there would be beneficial, certainly not this one. a greeting, hoping that our cries will help you think better.

i agree that if you underestimated demand on openspaces once the terms made it easier to acquire them, and if you further underestimated the willingness of some full sim owners to turn transfers of these into a lucrative business, that you might need to do something to curb the overuse of openspaces. but i fail to see how a HUGE price increase in tiers will solve anything. it will not decrease real demand, since it's clear that there was a large market who could not afford a full sim, but who wanted full control of an openspace. it will however at least temporarily increase supply as likely some people decide not to pay the increased tiers. but if this plan is effective in lowering use of openspaces (by their being abandonned rather than flipped below below cost) this seems a very high price for landowners in general to pay. i can't see how an artificially generated land glut can have any effect other than devaluing ALL land other than the soon to be over-priced openspaces.
you gave residents the chance to own an openspace with one quarter of the usual prims for one quarter of the price, which seems fair, and they JUMPED at the chance. now you want to gouge them for having done so in a manner that will effect all land owners adversely in the middle of an extra-world real esate devaluing of epic proportions. i can't see how this can possibly encourage the owners of openspaces to comply with your light use intentions. rather it would tend to encourage them to up usage and parcel them off as rental spaces in order to recoup the increase in price.
what you need instead of an across the board tier increase on a recently popular sim type is a better definition of light use, a better way to track abuses of it, and a way to tax this over use directly.
i just ordered an openspace on the day of your announcement and am planning to turn it into a picnic ground and forested area offering an alternative to the everywhere tropics. while i had hoped that residents would visit, i sincerely doubt that anything i was planning could possibly constitute over use. but now i am debating whether the forest will need to be curtailed in order to make some room for smaller rental parcels when the price goes up in january. i deeply resent that i was lured with what seemed like a very fair deal only to be told once i accepted it that due to the abuse by some, i will now pay substantially than a quarter of the tier of a full sim while still having only one quarter of the prims available.

as many said in earlier posts, YOU gave us the prims and we used them. if this has overtaxed the servers, then i think you should be working on improving performance on that end. if some are blatantly ignoring light-use, then track them down and find a way to bring openspace resource demands in line with openspace resource availability.

raising tiers by more than 50% on a newly popular type of sim just looks like a profit grab afterthought on LL's part, and i doubt that it will have the effect you claim you desire.

garvie

A number of people in this thread have stated that they bought OS sims in the last few weeks, and even in the last few days, but weren't told anything about what was just around the corner. How unscrupulous is that - LL keeping on selling them as recently as a couple of days ago, knowing what they were about to do? It borders on outright theft, imo.

My advice is not to let it go this month, tiers don't change till the end of the year so enjoy your private land till the end of the year (or as close as possible before the LL tiers are due) then if you need to drop it after that. You might as well get all the use you can at the current rate.
Talk to the Estate owner who you got the OpenSpace Sim from, find out what day of the month LL bills the tiers for that Openspace Sim (they can look it up in their account) then make an agreement to pay them tiers up till a day or two before the LL tier date & they can then file a support ticket to abandon the land to LL so they don't have to pay tiers again, or they can have it back and try to rent it to someone at the new higher rate.

Still not a plesant idea, but at least you could get almost 2 more months of use from your land at the rate you were expecting.

You knew how they were being used, people were telling you at your office hour, people were talking about it in the forums, people were mentioning it in blogs. You sold them like hot cakes and knew how they were being used.

I'm sorry Jack but not grandfathering existing openspaces in and then having a word about those being overused is inexcusable.

We are all discussing this rip off by Linden Lab....

"YOU"

seem to not to be .......


Like was said before:

Linden Lab just giving the people who put food on their plates the

BIG FINGER

My words... The Darwin Awards for Forum Post nominees ...

First, prims were increased on open sims. Then prices were lowered to buy them. Many estate owners, us included, converted full prim sims to opens because that is what the customers wanted. It was no longer profitable for most to offer small plots instead of large spaces of land and water. Many of us reworked and REBUILT our entire estates...in our case 29 islands. We purchased them in good faith at 250 dollars a piece. We converted and moved islands ..also with charges in the hundreds of dollars to lindens. We did this with very very small profit margins. We informed residents of the price increase this morning. Some were sad and crying...others angry and wanting to lash out at linden labs. Many were both. Some will stay of course, we have a great deal of loyalty from residents, but financially it will simply not be possible for many people to continue with their open space sim...no matter how loyal and happy they are with us.

Many estate owners are responsible and active in watching script loads on the sims and contacting residents and adjusting as necessary to keep the island running smoothly. For the most part they run very well and with far lower lag than is seen on mainland where it seems no policing of any kind is done.

We have been left with islands that have essentialy become worthless. They would not resell to anyone for any amount of money. In our case, some will be abandoned im sure, some will continue to be occupied and some will be converted back to full sims. The fact that we are being forced to take the price hike is one thing, but to do this with no compensation whatsoever for the sim moves and conversions that will have to take place is unforgivable. Many residents that lease open sims all over the grid from estates did so in good faith and are stunned. Equally, estate owners are in shock. We will absolutely survive this and adapt, but my faith in this company has been destroyed and it is not likely to be fixed easily.

I would like about this way weight about the price increase of Openspace SIM. Nevertheless, it cannot be which are raised the monthly expenses simply by 67% to!!!

Should the case be, really, I will leave SL and to them the animal gets lost for a Full SIM and 4 Openspace SIM. Because this is a rise in prices of 200 USD of plus 38 USD of value added tax for me. I use the Openspace SIM as a cultivation for my FullSIM as a role play SIM.

I do not pursue my SIM certainly around money to earn but from enjoyment. But with 238 USD of more expenses the enjoyment also stops with me and then I will search another leisure activities for me.

I am really sour because I already have so much time and money in SL inverstiert and now there comes such a shit.

Well Linden Labs, thank you for the announcement today. Once again you have successfully found a way to alienate your user base and force even more people to leave the game.

With the state of the U.S. economy, I had been going back and forth on whether or not I should continue spending the money for monthly tier for an Openspace sim. Now with your price increase, keeping the sim is no longer a viable option. You have just made my decision that much easier.

I might look into an OGP sim in the future but for now I am done with owning or renting land within Second Life. My $72 annual premium membership is up for renewal in December and though I basically get $75 back through the weekly stipend over the course of the year, I have lost any and all faith I had in Linden Lab as a company and honestly, I cannot justify putting any more of my hard earned RL money into this joke of a game. Though I might still log on here and there....it will ONLY be to converse with some of the many wonderful people I have met inworld and now call true friends. I will not be logging in to support Linden Labs in any way, shape, or form.

I have been actively searching for an alternative to Second Life and have found several....not as visually stunning or diverse as Second Life....but give them time. One or more will eventually grow to the level that Second Life has reached and, judging by the wishy-washy decision-making process of Linden Lab, most likely pass it. It might not happen in six months or the next year but it WILL happen.

You at Linden Labs are standing in a dark room and cannot see the writing on the wall. You already have many creators closing up shop and leaving the game because of content theft and Linden Labs inability to handle that situation. Now you alienate the average user who logs into Second Life, spends money on tier for an Openspace sim (whether by renting or owning). Do you REALLY think people are going to stick around? Do you REALLY think this course of action is going to increase land pricing on mainland properties? It may in the short term but Second Life is dying a long, slow death. Eventually the only people in here are going to be the Lindens and the bots. Everyone else will have moved on.

For those of you who want to make your voice heard, there is a protest happening inworld now. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/158/150/37 Not a Linden to be found, but then....would we expect anything less?

Well to be fair Phil when they originally announced the price drop on estates they told those with sims on order "Tough titty". It seems they've learnt nothing about customer service since that incident. Of course they eventually decided that selling people a product that was going to be much cheaper shortly wasn't quite right, but the thought didn't occur to them at the time and it hasn't occurred to them now.

I usually give LL the benefit of the doubt, and I rarely ever criticize in public. I also don't believe that protests do much good.

But I really have to voice my discontent with this policy.

As an Openspace Sim renter/owner, I think this is ludicrous in the extreme. A 75% increase in price to run my business in SL which, in the end, is about making stuff to make SL a more pretty place?

Why?

If it were on any other terms, it would be called extortion and usury. I don't accept the reasoning behind this at all. Hosting - which is what this is, just like web hosting - is supposed to be going down in price, not up.

What on earth are you guys thinking? A lot of us artists relied on LL's base prices to do things we want to do - things which have made SL a beautiful and successful place. Now, without any real warning, that is going to change.

Why?

SL isn't successful simply because it owns tens of thousands of servers. SL is successful because of thousands of people like me who try to add content to the place. You shut us down with exorbitant pricing, and you won't need a PhD in economics to figure out what will eventually happen.

Pissed off, really sad, and totally exasperated,

Summer Seale.

Well Linden Labs, thank you for the announcement today. Once again you have successfully found a way to alienate your user base and force even more people to leave the game.

With the state of the U.S. economy, I had been going back and forth on whether or not I should continue spending the money for monthly tier for an Openspace sim. Now with your price increase, keeping the sim is no longer a viable option. You have just made my decision that much easier.

I might look into an OGP sim in the future but for now I am done with owning or renting land within Second Life. My $72 annual premium membership is up for renewal in December and though I basically get $75 back through the weekly stipend over the course of the year, I have lost any and all faith I had in Linden Lab as a company and honestly, I cannot justify putting any more of my hard earned RL money into this joke of a game. Though I might still log on here and there....it will ONLY be to converse with some of the many wonderful people I have met inworld and now call true friends. I will not be logging in to support Linden Labs in any way, shape, or form.

I have been actively searching for an alternative to Second Life and have found several....not as visually stunning or diverse as Second Life....but give them time. One or more will eventually grow to the level that Second Life has reached and, judging by the wishy-washy decision-making process of Linden Lab, most likely pass it. It might not happen in six months or the next year but it WILL happen.

You at Linden Labs are standing in a dark room and cannot see the writing on the wall. You already have many creators closing up shop and leaving the game because of content theft and Linden Labs inability to handle that situation. Now you alienate the average user who logs into Second Life, spends money on tier for an Openspace sim (whether by renting or owning). Do you REALLY think people are going to stick around? Do you REALLY think this course of action is going to increase land pricing on mainland properties? It may in the short term but Second Life is dying a long, slow death. Eventually the only people in here are going to be the Lindens and the bots. Everyone else will have moved on.

For those of you who want to make your voice heard, there is a protest happening inworld now. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/158/150/37 Not a Linden to be found, but then....would we expect anything less?

An existing contract is binding if Linden Lab breaks my existing treaties do I turn my publicity and a lawyer! a few weeks ago I bought two open spaces and was not informed, that is deception in Germany !

4Openspace to one Server is best. (Not 1 region).
Why does not Linden gather up 4Openspace to one server?
Because now SecondLife by grid technology　base. I think so.

1)He can`t replace 4Openspace to one server,now.

2)Promotion of efficiency by making a wrong estimate Mono.

3)The depopulation of the mainland.

4)Recovery of the exchange loss.


Are my opinions different? Please have an argument.

SLZIN HLDGS.Japan Akko Yoshikawa
(Japanese language)
http://www.slzin.com/