Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

So lets make the ppl who give you your jobs pay for your own mistakes?

How many ppl can actualy afford 6k a year to open up a small club on a virtual world, which rly makes zero real life money.

You opened these sims to ppl , yes they gonna use them, you allowed ppl to make MEGA PRIMS, which is one of the most unstable things in the game. There are new weapons, sheilds, items being built everyday which utilize 'cheats' (bigger items using less prims), auto rezers, and other things which cause instability, but no instead of fixing your own mess you allowed your taking it out on ppl just trying to have fun in the game by experiencing free enterprise. Telling someone you get 3750 prims, but should only have 4 ppl at all times on it.....PLZ, what i want land but have no friends? A club averages maybe 25 ppl at a time IF its popular.

Why not address the issue you created, you allowed open sims and you did not keep up with the server demands or the issues of ppl making ways to cut around your safeguards of trying to ensure overload. Why take it out o the ppl that used the opportunity to have fun and make a place for ppl to gather and enjoy the 'game'

Ive played network games for 15 years, never have i seen the issues you all have in keeping up with the servers to allow ppl on a parcel, plz look at the real issues.

I would expect there to be at least a 30% hike in tier once class 6 servers become available. 30% increase for those that get class 6 any way.

For all those who say LL has sold them something and are now changing the rules:

When you buy an openspace from the land store it says ON THE FRONT PAGE:

Openspaces for light use

Light-use regions called Openspaces are a fantastic way to provide oceans for sailing, forests, park land or other light use landscapes. Learn more in the Knowledge Base.

Then when you go to the knowledge base you get this:

Normal regions run on their own dedicated CPU, but the Openspace regions run four per CPU; as you would expect, this limits their performance. Openspaces only ever share with other Openspaces on a server.

It is therefore important to understand what these regions are. They are provided for light use only, not for building, living in, renting as homes or use for events. As a stretch of open water for boating or a scenic wooded area they are fine, but we do not advise more serious use than this and will not respond to performance issues reported should you not use them in this way.

I do feel for people who may own them for their intended open space purpose, but the writing has been on the wall for a long time with these things and the ones who have been using them as rentals are the ones who have ruined it for everyone.

As for landlords who are renting them and now crying foul because they will have a tier increase: Shame on you. It says specifically that they are not to be used for renting as homes. You are part of the problem and have yourselves to thank.

It would be great if they WOULD enforce the original idea. Instead they sold thousands of sims to people in good faith and then jacked the price up 67%. This isn't enforcing the original idea. This is profiteering at the expensive of the people who had faith and invested in SL. All because LL doesn't want to invest THEIR money in enough servers to deal with the overcrowding in SL.

Why oh why punish everyone for the abuses of a few..... Open sims will simply disappear now (they will be way overpriced) - and along with them, will go those fragile dreams that were built there by those not so 'economically gifted' in first life. You have broken so many, many gentle hearts.

Very well put, Sylvia. I represent one of the smaller estates which has already died, although I feel proud that I arranged to sell (at a price of ZERO) my two full sims to groups of landowner-residents there so they could keep their homes, and sold my 4 OS sims to a fellow estate owner who has been still trying to make a go of it, but will likely die now.

With their actions over the last few months, LL has clearly stated to anyone with an ounce of sense that (unfortunately) its totally foolhardy to try to build a business within SL. Any business, to be successful, has to have a solid business plan as a foundation. Any good business plan requires baseline assumptions to be made, and requires that there be a certain amount of stability upon which to base those assumptions. After lowering the price of private islands from $1675 to $1000 and instantly wiping out 40% of estate owners' equity, they then doubled the prims, lowered the prices and relaxed the rules for OS sims, which further eroded the equity in full sims. Estate owners tried to adjust and follow the market changes which LL forced upon them, by migrating to models based much more around OS sims rather than full sims, because LL had made them so much more attractive to the market.

Now, once again, LL with one simple blog announcement, once again blasts huge holes in those carefully thought out and implemented business plans.

At this point, I'm glad that my estate, which I had well-developed growth plans for, has already disappeared - and my annual payments to LL have dropped from over $10,000 to zero. Linden Lab, I've heard you loud and clear. I will never again be so stupid and shortsighted as to attempt to plan, invest and try to build a business within SL. You've made it clear too many times now, that you have no qualms whatsoever of blasting those carefully planned businesses out of the water without so much as a second thought.

Sylvia and others in your position, you have my sympathies.

The bit about payer being equal to owner is at the region level, where the region specific tools are available. This increases the value of subletting the OS regions to 3rd parties, as they enjoy region level controls and not just parcel level, and they enjoy the look and feel of "sim ownership". So in a way you're probably on to something because effectively that's what's being done. It's probably that as well as the idea that removing that added value while simultaneously jacking the price will discourage subletting the OS regions in this way.

Total rubbish. When they changed the prim capacity and sales model for these regions, they knew full well how they would be used.

I support skidz and the others who have spoken up here - give these people their money back, LL. To not do so is hugely unethical.

Who knows that we are in crisis ??

That's a really bad new...

I have a store, FLexi Flags Megastore, on an openspace, and just try to have enough benefits, day after day, month after month, just to pay the fees...

So finally, I work 2 or 4 hours / day on my flags (making lot of RL sacrifices) just to give all what I earn to LL... and some month it's not enough, I have to buy L$.

Now, the fees will raise to 65 % !!.... Oh, that's a hell.

Do I have to raise my prices items to 65% too ? That's mean a basic flag, from 99 L$ to 165 L$ ?

I couldn't have a full prims sim for my store, an opensim is just enough...

Why imagine new constraints for players in the game ?

Why not imagine a beautifull world for everyone ?

Just curious what your purpose is in this thread? Do you really think it is useful to say neener, neener? Does it make you feel superior. Yes, we heard you the first time - give it a rest unless you are the voice of LL and on the payroll -

I'm not even a landowner. I'm a casual user of SL who logs in infrequently, and even *I* think this is stupid and greedy.

So basically, Jack, you got other people to foot the bill for this hardware, and now you're just jacking up (no pun intended) the price to kick people off and reclaim the space? That's called bait-and-switch, and is NOT a smart thing to do when you depend on subscriptions and repeat customers.

I have a good friend who has been very involved in building in SL, playing in a sandbox, and was thrilled to be able to get a sandbox of their very own, and was definitely willing to pay $75 per month for that. She's created a lovely little private island where she creates whatever strikes her fancy... an old mill, a steam locomotive, a lighthouse... And it's wonderful, and private, and quiet. It's obviously NOT one of the areas causing the supposed problems. And yet she either has to find another $50/month, or has to lose this wonderful, creative space. Do you really think she's going to be happy with either outcome? Do you think she's not going to be disillusioned with SL?

Find another solution. Restrict the number of prims. Do something else rather than penalize all the people that have sunk money into this and will lose their land or be gouged by LL.

The Cascadia continent has just announced the closure of all its OpenSpace sims, including the 4-sim nature park that was open to all for hiking and canoeing.

OS Tier Increase

Now that Linden Lab has decided to increase the tier on my two regions by 66% be advised that when the current tiers expire they will not be renewed. If you own any noncopy items on either region please come collect them or risk the asset server of stealing them from you. I have completely cashed out of Second Life. I will not take part any further in Linden Lab's greed and theif practices. Sorry for the short notice but that was what was just stuck in my ass by Linden Lab. FINGER TO LINDEN LAB !!!

rofl omg the LPS i have, has only 8.0ms totalframe time and traffic under 100 XD

Im so sorry to LL to misuse there performance .... i will stop it you can shutdown this SIM next year

Im happy to hear that i will have then less lag when i will exploring in SL. If not i would feel betrayed by you .... maybe its the best to follow the Big enterprises which has left SL too.

The evolution of SL is going on ^^ mono is coming and you say its a problem of performance.

Its a lie, SL should die ... my point of view

greez

This is the KEY of it ALL.. and proves it is granted to DO, if you want to.. but not ADVICED.. and advice is not the the same as a restrictive announcement. Again, the reasons provided for price increase, is not valid. Since they make the ADVICE as a PROHIBIT thing, which is not the fact. If they want to prohibit it, they need to clarify on it, and give a slow time to adjust to it (months), not effective immidiately. And give something in return (another product e.g.)





Again, this is allowed to do.. just like with any land. (one owns, so no covenant)
So, it's not shame on them, but shame on LL again.
They hyped the product, endorsed it, provided us with limits on them. (technically, e.g. prim limits)
And now it's more popular then full sims, and they see their balance cut down from sales, and therefor, they put in restrictions out of a sudden, without good proof or reasoning, PLUS highering the pricing.

I am confused.... The number of people on here saying they bought OSs so they could get away from all the mess of mainland, have their own place with land and not be overlooked..... and they expect to pay less than mainland prices for it. It doesn't work like that in RL, why should it work here.

Use of an OS for scenery... yeah, I can understand those remaining available at a reduced cost, but as I have seen on visiting, and as most are already stating in here, that is not what the majority of OSs are being used for.

However I do agree that if an OS is being used correctly, this jump in price should not be necessary and should be limited to those that are exceeding their CPU share, and reducing the performance of those other OSs sharing the same CPU resources.

As for 67%. I don't know about all you others but here in UK the weekly food shop has risen by almost that amount in the last 3 months !!

I have 8 openspace sims that I use for a variety of purposes. I am very careful not to exceed the prim limit that I pay for and monitor usage to keep the avies on the sims at anytime below the 10 person limit. These are the limits set by Linden and is the only way the average person has to measure "over use". Please don't tell me to keep a lag meter open at all times and keep track of frame rates or to become an IT expert. Linden needs to provide realistic ways to measure 'over use" and just saying that a store or rentals are over use is illogical. It is implied that anything beyond open water or a desert is over use .It seems that the real issue is infrastructure that is not capable of handling the ever growing logged in residents and a historic lack of lindens commitment to work on basic functionality in place of bells and whistles and new color schemes. If the pricing holds, I will be giving up my openspace regions so your servers may have an easier time but you will also have less net revenue. Or is that the real goal?

If you came to me and told me I was over-using my sims I would tell you I am within my prims and people limits and that is what you sold me, so how are you going to judge overuse?

Perhaps you should consider a tiered system where in place of openspace and whole sims there would be more levels available to match the user's requirements. More prims and more agents for a higher price but still less than a full sim. This would allow users to choose what the needed at a cost they could afford.

Back to troll again I see....

18 posts by Snowflake and only 1 by Jack!! LOL

2% of the open spaces might have been used for water, LL fully knew what people were using the sims for and concierge encouraged some of the non approved uses. So Snowflake you think the other 98% of users are all wrong and should have read LL's outdated definition of an OS sim?? That was the definition that was out when they had half the prims that they do know. LL dropped the price and pushed the sales of OS sims and kept the old definition so they didn't have to provide support. How can one use 3750 prims in a light use way? Sounds like 500 prims would be more appropriate if this is really the case. Why would LL raise the prim limits on an OS sim???? For what?? If I want to use my OS sim to make terrain files why is that not allowed and why would I have to pay more for that?? The people have spoken and the majority feel LL just dicked them over!!!

As Nostradamus foretold :

* "SL will expand by 44% in Q2 2008"
http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/07/08/second-life-virtual-world-expands-35-in-q2/

* "LL will rise tier by 67% on 1st Jan 2008"
http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/10/27/openspace-pricing-and-policy-changes/

* "SL will shrink by 52% in Q1 2008"
... [soon to be on blog front page] ...

Please Lindens, consider if you change the rules of SL economy too fast, you will kill your RL business...

Well, i logged on for a couple of hours.

Went to my 2 openspaces, then to my to regular island. I had a bitter feeling when looking at all the work done along time, a mix of nostalgia and another sounding just like i'm no longer interested in building, sharing and enjoying things with the few friends i have.

End of november is the date when i become back a "basic account", no more premium, no more payment infos on file.

Sad to say, but i really need a break with Linden Lab's ever increasing money grabbing goals.

Once upon a time, not so long ago - that was true - there was a little (virtual) world where "imagination" was the main driver. This is no longer the case.

Goodbye.

If you are spouting this rhetoric and are not an "official LL mouthpiece", please do the rest of us who are impacted by this decision a favor by shutting the f*ck up.

You may now resume championing your masters elsewhere, tyvm...

Snowflake .. have you figured out yet that 4 open sims = one full sim? So what makes 4 open sims worth $200 more a month then 1 normal private sim?

I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US, you can 100 acres in the country for less money than you can buy a postage stamp lot in the city.

You know, I lease a OS sim, have a couple of homes on it that I give to 2 close friends of mine to use. In all my time of leasing land on SL...which amounts to going on 2 years now...I cant recall a time when I had more than 7-8 people on my land. Its my way to be able to get away from the huge crowds and numbers of people in the Mainland, etc. You have ended that.

The people that have Os' and lease parcels from them to individual business owners can pass this cost on easily. So this effects them none in the least. But someone like me, you've destroyed by home, and my couple of friends home.

You speak of the load placed on the servers because of the businesses, and the fact is, you have only ran off those that dont cause that problem.

Jack Linden, I would like to formally extend you a very heart felt F**K YOU VERY MUCH for destroying my home, as well as my couple of friends homes, here in SL. Your bull$hit reminds me of the US governments buyout BS. They pass on a $7000 per person debt to each working person to pay so the rich can keep their 5 million dollar homes and 3 Lexus'. And ignore the fact they are only bringing in $15,000 a year with 2 jobs as it is...now they got to cough up another $7000 a year. Why is it that common sense is not so common anymore?

Heres the part I like in all that..



They don't advise? But they allow it.. and as they allow it but don't advise it they will not respond to performance issues reported. Hmm but it seems they are responding to performance issues that were reported.

What it sounds like they've done is sold a "suggestive" product. As they don't put a restriction on the actual use... which they could. They only advise how to use it with the only downfall of them not responding to any issues.. So I guess I'm still not understanding peoples arguments that its fair and written in various areas how it is to be used. Its not its only advised.

I guess its a little more in depth than all this anyway... I'll just be brief with this scam cause I think people see it already...

Lower the price of open space sims and allow more prim.. Basic gist.. People swarm in and buy. So they make a lot of sales as they have tons buying open space regions. They then open a whole new area of mainland with a new name. They offer double prim which is easily done if you own the sim and have a boat load of them. So not only did they directly compete with the everyday entrepeneur in SL but they squashed the competition by increasing the tier on open spaces.

Now JACK.... this is only one way of looking at it I'm sure. And I hope you wouldn't game a system in such a way just to line your own pockets.

Heres the problem. It can be looked at in a much more detailed way than I've suggested. I just happen to see it as it was a planned set up with a series of events that took place before the increase in tier. It seems it was well thought out in advance. Thats how it seems anyway.. But I'll ask if thats true.

Did LL influence the land market for their own personal gain by taking advantage of people Jack?

Those who say you were told to only use them for water or parks need to understand... LL allowed the ability for people to use the 3500+prim and numbers of avatars they did because when you offer people that in a business you know they'll buy. LOL.

Yeah people are naive to believe LL will always look out for their best interest and maybe they shouldn't have bought the openspaces. But I'm really amazed that anyone is defended LLs reasons for this after openly allowing the prim, avatars, and scripts to be used. We all know given the opportunity people will use it.. So does LL and they gambled on a gain and won.

I really wish there was an honest reason for the increase or the way they had things worded, and I wish there was an honest reason for them not putting a true limit on the resource use on open spaces. But there isn't. Its about money? Say it isn't so jack say it isn't so.

We'll see how many folks get restricted, or banned today for speaking their opinion about a game that they invest time, money, and content into.

Mainland yes do they really think i go to buy land there ?

This fucking bad looking Mainland ... only on thing is good on Mainland if you a friend of LAAAAG you will love it