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Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden |
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Bryony Constantine
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 32
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10-28-2008 08:04
A rise from $75 to $125 for monthly fees is a lot to most people. Considering that many people are feeling the effects of the financial situation in many areas of the world, such a big rise seems a bad move....there will be people who won't be able to afford the extra and will abandon or try to sell their land.
I'd hate to see places I enjoy visiting just vanish as a result. I'm willing to donate L$ to help them survive but I suspect there will be places that will go anyway.  Does everything have to be about money with Linden Lab? Don't the people, places and communities that have been built up count for anything? It doesn't look like it... |
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April Darkstone
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2007
Posts: 1
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Knee jerk reaction - why not address issue with abusers
10-28-2008 08:07
I have always been a support of LL until now. As a land owner (private sim and open space) as well as a business owner, I really have to question who benefits from this change. My short answer is LL. Where is the benefit to me? I am now going to have to pay 65% more for my open space yet I get no benefit: no increase in prims, no guarantee of better performance.
While SL is a game...it is also a business in which my partner and I have invested a lot of real money. We bought our first sim in May 2008 and we have been very lucky in the fact that it was a success (something VERY hard to do in a recession)...so we decided to purchase an open space sim for our own use. We are very prim conscious and do not run scripts except on limited basis. I understand that a few bad apples are corrupting the system - but if LL can tell which open space sims are violating the "light usage" recommendation (note that I say recommendation as it was never specified that open space could not be used for commercial development), then why not go after those owners? I do not think that it is fair to penalize all land owners for a few abuse cases. When I add up how much I spend on SL/LL land fees ($6,290USD a year), is it too much to ask for some fairness? |
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Kain Turner
Registered User
Join date: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 37
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10-28-2008 08:09
Effective Immediately
We will no longer allow the Owner of an Openspace to be changed to a different resident than the Payor. Initially we will not enforce this change on Openspaces where the Payor and Owner are already different but in those cases the only change allowed will be to set the Owner back to the Payor. This doesn’t affect the parcel level rentals, this is just focussed on the whole region rental of Openspaces. So let us all get clear on this your offering NOTHING more to your customers and increasing the tier 66% to top that off your not even going to allow the people who bought and used these in the way they were intended to be used the chance to sell off DIRTY buisness LL plain and simple either you offer refunds for the ppl or you allow ppl to sell off to other estate owners.The amoung of backlash your gonna get over this isnt gonna be pretty and it shouldn't be this might quite possibly be the dirtiest move I have ever seen out of LL. |
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Antho Doobie
Registered User
Join date: 3 Sep 2008
Posts: 1
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10-28-2008 08:12
Pay, pay pay, ....
Estates owner work for LL, pay LL, and LL make fun them, Your world, your imagination? |
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Ettiene Lorgsval
Registered User
Join date: 14 Oct 2008
Posts: 1
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You mean unknowingly I may be on openspace land..renting, how do I know?
10-28-2008 08:12
Answer me this before I waste money...how do I know it is open space Diamond Pride. If you made the tiers cheaper I would opt for an Island so would thousands of others. So are you cutting off your nose to spite your face? The no care attitude displayed of how this affects perople down to grass roots sucks. No techno babble just tell me if I am in open space.
Openspace Announcement Discussion I will be reading all the comments to this thread tomorrow and will reply as best as I can then, as it's very late for me now in the UK. Please be assured that we do read every reply. Jack --- Openspace Pricing and Policy Changes In March of this year, we announced improvements to our light use land product that we call Openspaces. Not long after this, the new Land Store opened allowing estate owners to buy Openspaces and have them delivered almost immediately, an enormous improvement over the old method of ordering them via support tickets. As a result we have seen tremendous demand for Openspaces - with many thousands of them being ordered. We're delighted that so many of you have found them to be a useful addition to your estates. Read on after the cut.. For those that don't know, an Openspace is a type of private island that we made available for light use countryside or ocean. We figured that if Governor Linden can have ocean and green spaces, we should let private estate owners do the same. But Openspaces differ from normal regions in one particularly significant way; unlike normal regions that effectively get a CPU to themselves on the server, there can be up to four Openspaces on a single CPU (so 16 on a quad core machine), sharing the resource (hence them being ‘light use’). So Openspaces have been incredibly popular as a perk for estate owners, but sadly there is a twist. Unfortunately most of the Openspaces are being used for much more than light use. Based on analysis performed in August and September, Openspaces are being used about twice as much as we expected, in other words being loaded with double the content/avatar load than we'd expect for a region that is supposed to be light use. Rather than being employed as open areas like ocean with little or no content and traffic, the majority are being rented out to residents looking for a place to live. Because they were never intended for that level of load this is causing problems. For some people this has meant a less than great experience with performance fluctuations. The overuse of Openspaces has also put additional strain on some of our network and database infrastructure at a much higher ratio than is reflected in the current pricing. So higher traffic to and from the servers along with heavier demands on the asset server, both of which impact the overall experience people have inworld. We need to therefore take some steps to improve their performance and better reflect their actual usage levels in our pricing so that we can maintain the best performance level for everyone. As a result, we will be implementing a pricing change effective January 1st along with some policy changes effective immediately. Beginning 1st January 2009 We will increase the monthly maintenance fee from USD$75 to USD$125 per month. This price increase will apply to all owners of Openspaces on January 1st as well as new purchases after that date. There will be no grandfathering of Openspace maintenance pricing. For anyone owning class 4 Openspaces on January 1st, they will be upgraded to class 5 by end of January, to further improve the experience people have on those regions. At the same time, we will be increasing the upfront fee for brand new Openspaces from USD$250 to USD$375. Effective Immediately We will no longer allow the Owner of an Openspace to be changed to a different resident than the Payor. Initially we will not enforce this change on Openspaces where the Payor and Owner are already different but in those cases the only change allowed will be to set the Owner back to the Payor. This doesn't affect the parcel level rentals, this is just focussed on the whole region rental of Openspaces. We will no longer offer an educational or non-profit discount for new Openspaces. As mentioned earlier, this is due to the increased back end resource required for us to support Openspaces in the way that they are now being used. For the small number of Educators that already have Openspaces, we will be contacting you directly to discuss this change. Next, we will be making changes to the viewer that enable residents to know precisely what type of land or region they are on so that the land market remains as fair and easy to understand as possible. So expect to see changes that much more clearly display to residents whether they are on Linden Mainland or Private Estate, whether it is a Normal region or Openspace and what that means. This will affect various aspects of the Viewer including the inworld Search along with the About Land and Buy Land screens. Making Land easier to understand will benefit everyone, especially new users looking to step onto the property ladder for the first time. Lastly we will begin to proactively discuss overloaded Openspaces with their owners. This is important because as with abuse of region resources, a heavily overloaded Openspace can adversely affect other Openspaces sharing the same machine which is clearly unfair to residents who are using them responsibly. We have listened to your feedback on this, and agree that we need to make changes to better support our Openspace users by actively working to keep the performance levels as high as possible. We will also provide some detailed guidance about what ‘overuse’ looks like and how to prevent it. So to recap: * Openspace prices and fees change on the 1st January with no grandfathering. * Class 4 Openspaces will be upgraded to class 5 in January. * Educator discount is no longer available for Openspaces. * No Owner switching for Openspaces unless it’s a full transfer of Payor. * More proactive education by support staff to prevent unfair resource use by Openspace regions. We’re sure there will be many of you with questions and concerns on the back of this announcement. As previously, there will shortly be a forum created specifically for discussion of these changes so please head over here if you wish to provide feedback. In addition, if you need a more personal dialogue about this post, please contact support as usual. |
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Guardian Undercroft
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jan 2008
Posts: 1
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Math?
10-28-2008 08:13
So if I have two class 5 sims and I take one and divide into 4 open space sims. Instead of paying 295 a month I will pay 125 x 4?
Excuse me? So, next is the announcement where you jack up all sim tier? What is the reason for this? Hardware prices going up? I think not. A quad core cost 500 dollars two years ago and now costs 200. There is no class 6 you're still running class 5s and the hardware is cheaper and cheaper. Now, I'm waiting for you jacking the normal sim tier up to 500 a month. Please destroy the rental market for having land on private estates even more than you did when you made all these open space sims. I'm sure all the tenants will love having their rent raised 60%. I think the people at Linden Labs must work in their spare time as player agents for Pro Sports. As that is the only place on Earth where you see 60% raises. |
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Emileigh Starbrook
Registered User
Join date: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 2
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This is totally unfair
10-28-2008 08:15
This is a 66% increase in price , which basically means that instead of paying 225$USD in tier for 3 openspace (and they are openspace - forest, water and parkland themed into a medieval theme, granted I live on one of them) you want me to now pay 375$USD? Forget it!
Will you subsequently raise the price of Full sims accordingly? I don't think increasing the tier for a full sim from 300$USD to 500$USD would sit well with anyone, yet is exactly the same. You say there are abuses of the guidelines - how about cracking down on those first before you price gouge the rest of us. Paying 375 per month is not going to happen. I might try and sell them, but I suspect they are all going to have to be abandoned as will my interest in continuing the game. |
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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10-28-2008 08:16
This really saddens me to see this change. I'm just glad that I never fell for the idea of purchasing any OpenSpaces sims myself, or renting any of them. Seriously considered it, especially when LL doubled the prim count to 3750, and you could get 4x the land area with the same prim count and monthly fee as renting 1/4 of a private island sim.
Before they doubled the prim counts, I designed and built a beautiful 5-sim project for a client. One normal sim, and 4 OpenSpaces sims, terraformed as a single, beautiful island, with horse trails, a suspension bridge, and other neat features. All that land gave my client and her guests plenty of room to ride horses and play around, and lots of privacy. Today, that same project would suddenly cost far more per month to run. It's unlikely it would have been built in the new pricing scheme, even with the higher prim counts. Yet it is PRECISELY the type of use that LL said OpenSpaces sims were for! Wide open spaces adjoining a full-use sim, for beautiful views and light use access. Last month, I submitted a bid for a University client, to build a 6-sim project early next year. Two regular sims, and 4 OpenSpaces sims. They wanted to re-create a real-world urban improvement project - a city street 6 blocks or more in length. The two full-use sims were to be in the central mall area, where most of the avatar traffic would be. The OpenSpaces sims would allow me to detail the ends of the street, with false-fronts for the buildings on the side streets - areas that in no way needed a full sim's resources. Eliminating the lower academic pricing for OpenSpaces sims and further jacking up the price to obtain and maintain them is likely going to kill that project before it gets off the ground. And if it dies, will cost my development company thousands of real dollars in lost earnings from that contract. Thanks LL. Thanks just so much... That project would have again met ALL your suggested guidelines for a light-use sim, yet you've probably just priced it out of existance. For what? LL created this problem, by doubling the prim counts and making OpenSpaces sims cheaper to obtain and maintain. Then created this problem by not throttling the number of avatars allowed in an OS sim, or the number if scripts allowed in one. They created this problem by their own poor coding, that failed to isolate the load between OS sims that shared the same server core. And then, when people USED the resources that they provided, LL complains, and jacks the prices in reponse? Pitiful... This will reduce server load, all right. It will reduce it because a lot of people will sell off or abandon their sims, and will leave SL entirely. It will reduce it because the new pricing will force a lot of OS sims to close down completely, even if they were faithfully using them in just the way that LL intended. And LL just rakes in the money, from sim transfer fees, sim consolidation fees for combining 4 OpenSpaces sims into a single normal-use sim, and higher sales of mainland, since there won't be any other comparatively low-cost option for those displaced when the higher prices make their sims go away. Bad move, LL. Just really, really bad. _____________________
Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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JR Unknown
I dabble in land a bit
Join date: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 125
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841 residents posts and 1 pathetic response from Jack
10-28-2008 08:16
Don't think that is gonna cut it. Time for someone in customer relations to actually do their job. What percentage of your customer base did you piss off in one failed blogpost? 20%, 25%, 30%? Out of those what is the percentage of monthly revenue that they represent?
Great customer service there Jack with your one pathetic reply!! Way to appease the masses that pay your salary buddy!!! There's no reason that open spaces shouldn't be rolled out four at a time and all on one server just like a full prim sim would be on one server. How would it affect LL if I had 4 OS sims on one server?? How can you justify your stance?? No one is buying it or accepting it and your customers have spoken. Time for someone there to show your customers that you care!! Or at least act like you care!!! My cable company treats me better than you do and I only pay them like $100 a month not over $5000!!!! Where is M Linden????????????????????????????? |
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Dazz Anvil
Registered User
Join date: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 21
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Let's not forget this part...
10-28-2008 08:18
Sigh. " As a stretch of open water for boating or a scenic wooded area they are fine, but we do not advise more serious use than this and will not respond to performance issues reported should you not use them in this way." Does Linden Lab prohibit such use? No. They advise against it but they don't expressly prohibit it. This sentence gives tacit approval for such use but if you experience problems, you're on your own. By using an OS sim, its up to you to manage your resources. Some people trade off the less than optimal performance against the increased square meters and it becomes an attractive alternative. |
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nikita2 Denimore
Registered User
Join date: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 130
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10-28-2008 08:18
Technically, you realize that "profit" doesn't start until your own setup and carrying costs are met, right? But, that was a high markup; he s/he was trying to pay off the setup costs in a hurry -- which in hindsight, was prolly the smart thing to do! I could care less about his set up costs,i will always be paying the large increase from what he pays in tier every month,and as i said i shudder to think what i will be paying soon,if his tier goes up $50 then what increase will be passed on to me,if it is the same increase i pay now,then i will be paying $163 for my tier |
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Medusa Torok
Registered User
Join date: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 13
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10-28-2008 08:20
I have some land, a quarter openspace sim, which was sold to me as "residential, light commercial". At the time of purchase I compared the tier fees with mainland, and it was about the same as the tier levels for the same number of prims on mainland, although of course those prims are spread over a larger area of land. Brilliant, I thought.. the privacy I wanted... no more hideous ugly buildings right in my face.. no ban lines right in my face... no more listening to neighbours having sex on voice chat. I spent a lot of time and money building and creating on that land, there are very few visitors, I have afew items for sale there but hardly a business. I really love that land, and since my previous experiences of living on private estates have been rather disappointing, I was planning to stay a good while. BUT now it has suddenly become unaffordable, the price increase is huge, and at a time in the rl economy when most of us are having to tighten our belts. I will now be paying much more for my prims on openspace land than I would for the same amount of prims on mainland. it seems openspace land is suddenly becoming a premium product for which we will be charged more, rather than the low cost, low use open land we all thought we had invested in. Nice one. This will affect everyone from the sim owners right down to the humble residents like myself, and I expect openspace sims will be abandoned en masse. I for one can not afford to keep my little piece of paradise.
Speaking as just an average resident, it definitely feels like I've been ripped off. |
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Jesse Murdock
Moves You
Join date: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 149
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scammed again? my thoughts...
10-28-2008 08:20
During the time that I have been a resident of Second Life I have often been placed in the position of describing to people what Second Life is like for me. Most often the one phrase that comes to mind in this situation is, ' never ceases to blow my mind every day '. This can be applied unfortunately in two different ways. Although usually it is the positive way in which I say it, not so today. Over the course of these past several years I have witnessed business decisions made by Linden Lab without apparent concern for the impact their decisions have on the Second Life economy and the business models that evolve within it. This again would seem to be one of such decisions.
Linden Lab seems to be constantly in conflict with their goals and the means by which to achieve them. On the one hand they want growth and new membership, so they make decisions which automatically subtract more than 50% of the investment value made by all estate owning residents and cut price of the new full-featured estates. At the same time making available a much lower priced option limited not in features but in capacity for content. Then choose to allow the residents to buy these cheaper versions en masse and wait until they get to a critical level before popping a higher price tag on those residents. This is scandalous. A good company to be successful in any business must study and anticipate trends. When Linden Lab opened doors to Second Life by making the basic account as easily attainable as signing up for a free Hotmail or Gmail account they opened the door to a new industry of land rental on a large scale. Many people saw this opportunity and purchased the estates in good faith at the value which Linden Lab asked for which was 1200 dollars then jumped to over 1500 dollars as well as the maintenance recurring fees jump from 195 to 295, only to have their investments immediately shot to pieces when Linden Lab dropped the price to 1000, yet somehow the cost for maintaining these regions supposedly remains the same at $295 a month. Then they offer an open space and price it at a fraction of a full estate, offer it with the same features as a full estate the only limitation being the number of prims available for use on these sims. Many landowners saw this as an opportunity to offer full estate privileged rentals were offering Linden Lab the security of their account for payment. Once again those businesspeople of Second Life are getting the shaft. Now I am not even a landlord so I am not speaking as a jaded or disenchanted businessman within the land rental industry, rather I am speaking as a longtime resident and supporter of Linden Lab and Second Life. I believe that any socially structured group of people are a society and as societies do they have bodies that govern them. Governing bodies rarely think everything through and I don't think that many people expect them to be perfect, however that being the case such bodies should be open to open discussion and criticism and take it into account before making a final decision. I have seen Linden Lab bait and switch good honest businesspeople on numerous occasions now and am forced to wonder what school of teaching this business model comes from. I can't help but wonder what it is that Linden Lab wants for Second Life, what is their overall goal. I do not see that goal being realized as the overall enjoyment and satisfaction for its residents. I am afraid for the future of a society in which the governing body continually scams the members and makes decisions without asking for any input of its members, that in the end cost everyone money. Could you not see this coming Linden Lab. Could you not see the trend when you saw the purchases of open space sims being made, the orders being scheduled out into the future due to demand. Maybe it would be considered by many to be more fair perhaps to change the architectural side or technological side of the model rather than the pricing structure. Why not place a cap on the number of avatars that the open space sims support. Why not lower the number of prims or the number of scripts these sims can support. Why is it that full estates once valued at $1200 brand-new were raised to 1600 plus dollars brand-new and then in less than a year dropped to the much less $1000 brand-new. If that isn't bait and switch I don't know what is. Why is it the pricing that is always changing, when its technological limitations that is forcing the price changes. Shouldn't you just be changing the features that pricing structure supports and not raising and lowering the value of investments made by honest people. There was no guarantee on performance. As a full estate owner I can tell you I get no guarantee on performance for my full-featured estate for which I pay the full feature Price and full-featured maintenance fee. You get what you pay for as they say. So if performance is down when it comes to open spaces it seems to me more fair to change how you regulate the use of an open space and not change the price which punishes all opens space owners not just those who are pushing the limits. Maybe the smoke and mirrors Re: the value and exchange rate of the Linden Dollar to the various real currencies of the world serves both Linden Lab and residents in a beneficial manner in certain respects, the truth is however, people are spending and losing real money based on the decisions that Linden Lab is making and obviously making in error. I suggest in the future the digestion of as many opinions as possible before making decisions that carry with them drastic and negative impacts. When I first joined Second Life I was very impressed by the open and involved communication the developer maintained with their customer. I often felt like positive and good decisions had come from the dissemination of the multitude of different opinions from all those involved in the discussion. The closing of the forums to open discussion with the company and the creation of the blog felt to me as if a pseudo-democracy had died in a dictatorship had arisen. That said, it brings me some relief to see Linden Lab asking for a formal discussion based on blog posts within this forum once again, I can only hope the ideas presented by the members are taken to heart by the company from moderators all way to the top. _____________________
The writing's on the wall...
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Cube Republic
Registered User
Join date: 6 Mar 2008
Posts: 9
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10-28-2008 08:20
Please join group in world -SOS- for some reason its not coming up in search, just click through my profile if this is the case
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jsmn Yao
Registered User
Join date: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 9
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10-28-2008 08:20
JACK LINDEN'S REPLY - POST #598 - BUMP /354/1d/289652/24.html#post2194303/354/1d/289652/24.html#post2194303 Jack says: We believe in Openspaces as a product, but the pricing just wasn't in line with how they are now being used. Just to be clear, this isn't a small minority of Openspaces either, as a general rule they are much more heavily loaded than, for example, the equivalent Linden voids. BUMP there are 2 options: LL are very stupid or they are big fat liers. i think the latter. it can't be real you are surprised by the heavier load after doubling the prims on OS-sims. i think we're tricked. this is bait and switch. |
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JCaris Seaton
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 5
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Buyer Beware
10-28-2008 08:21
To anyone thinking of investing in any Sim on SL please take a good look at what is happening here. LL can change the rules in the middle of the game at any time. A 67% increase in price after people have invested thousands of dollars is nothing more than a bait and switch. If they can do this to the Open Space Sims then they can do it to the Class 5 Sims too.
My partner and I have considered buying another Class 5 Sim next month but seeing LL do this has made us rethink our investing that much money here and potentially having LL raise the class 5 tier too. Fixing a problem by punishing everyone is not only bad business, it is also a lazy way of correcting a problem. Find those that are causing the problem and punish them. I guess you don’t have to worry about that when you have a monopoly. |
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MoxZ Mokeev
Invisible Alpha Texture
Join date: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 870
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10-28-2008 08:22
What benefit does raising the tier create? This seems more a scheme to increas LL profit than to decrease issues with lag. greedy..... but then that is your perogative as a company owner. Raising the tier will force out those who are buying and running the OS for profit. In effect, if they continue to rent out the OS, by raising the price LL takes the profit. Hence no profit, no sense in using the OS. In this way LL forces the "abusers" of OS to a) sell out to someone who will be unable to profit due to the price increase or b) abandon the OS back to LL so that they can resell it at a higher price to the next person who won't be able to profit. Kinda smart insomuch as the way LL thinks...but not so smart in reality, because they're really screwing over a lot of innocent people. Doom and drama. _____________________
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Vryl Valkyrie
Owner of 3D Concepts
Join date: 30 May 2006
Posts: 257
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10-28-2008 08:22
Our point in all of this is why offer a sim with 3750 prim usage and not expect people to use them? We for one when renting a open space to tentants (cause you cant buy one if you dont own a full prim sim) make it very clear these are meant for light use. How they use it is entirley up to them??? They have been given 3750 prims to play with and are paying to be there so why not get your moneys worth? IF LL wanted them to be used as water or parks then why release them with 3750 prims? Just makes NO sense! That's right.. plus they allow you to place them anywhere on the grid. I ordered an open space yesterday only 10 minutes before this blog was posted. I was told on the phone by the concierge team that this was like a regular island but only with 1/4 of the resources and that we can place it anywhere on the map.. hmm tell me if this is used for terrain how or why would we want to place it anywhere on the map? Furthermore, I told this person that I wanted the owner name to be something different as a friend would be using it.. not renting just paying the actual cost. I even said that my friend paid for the cost of the island.. he said no problem, etc and so on.. This hype by LL is total BS and is an obvious coverup to monopolize the market, putting their competitor at an unfair disadvantage. I'm sorry to say this as I usually support LL but this is just wrong and stinks to the high heavens. I don't want to hear this crap about light use and abuse. Abuse and resource pushing can be found on all land parcel types, not only OP sims. We all know what this is about. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall. Furthermore, it is an obvious violation of the AntiTrust law.. Read if you have doubt.. furthermore ask your attorneys.. and be prepared for possible classaction lawsuits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust Time to start an inworld petition. I'm sure a ton of people do not even know what is about to hit them. _____________________
Visit 3D Concepts for the best professional legal and licensed textures in SL: http://slurl.com/secondlife/3D%20Concepts/128/225/31
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bob45365 Allen
Registered User
Join date: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2
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just wrong
10-28-2008 08:23
judging from jacks response he is saying we are making this change and there isn't a dang thing you can do about it. i say there is and it is time to stand up and let the due prosses decide this matter.
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Amilie Anatine
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 38
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10-28-2008 08:25
http://rezzable.com/blog/rightasrain-rimbaud/linden-labs-betrays-consumer-market
bad move ---> bad press another example on how LL makes a policy decision without really grasping the full impact. do not punish those who are playing by the rules! its LL fault for not putting prim and script limits on these open spaces. people see where they can expand, they will, and its only been a few months. bait and switch is what this is. how about just cutting your budget to accomidate for this, you make millions of dollars a month anyway, people are paying more than a mortgage to have their own slice of paradise just so they can get through this rl. |
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Ezekyel Vidor
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
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Residencial Use of OpenSpace Sim Product
10-28-2008 08:26
I own couples Openspace suited for residencial, there is a way to use it for that purpose.
these sim is like a QUARTER of a full sim.. Just use it that way.sharing the 1/4 of script, physic and prims......and price^^... I NEVER experianced lag or any problem on any of mine, I'm a experianced Estate Owner about 3 Year into sl I know what I do but it unfair to pay for all mess it up.. Now I think SL is DOOMED anyway and not just because of that,, Because there is too much unpaying noob and UNEXPERIENCED BUSINESS peoples craping the market the only way they know for got visibility and selling a product is to lower thier price, that down since summer 2007 now we reach the crisis and with this new price that will help a lot^^ (that is very rare is RL because when we have the $$$ for make a RL business we normally know what we make) When I've start I'ved a big comminuty project to allow Quality product and good service to resident With an instable time like that we can,t grow...we probably fail like most like our Grandfathering us is a MINIMUM they can make for us, for at least a Question of Respect... E&V Estates Onwer - Ezekyel Vidor |
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Abstract Baroque
Registered User
Join date: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 2
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Who manages this "eat as much as you want restaurant"?
10-28-2008 08:27
I dont see much discussion going on.
So Ill just add my voice of discontent. I am totally unconvinced at the defence that , because 'some' people misuse open space TOS, the open space system must be effectively made untenable for most users on economic grounds. If you run an "eat as much as you like " restaurant, and someone arrives with a wheel barrow to ship food out of the door, you dont change the policy to "shovel as much as you like in a wheelbarrow", and proceed to charge all the diners on that basis. Thats an abandonmenbt of the model in the laziest and craziest way imaginable. You should simply penalise the abusers, and get on with serving happy customers. Are Lindens saying "we dont have the technology to cap the usage on these sims?. ..Come on!!! I will probably leave the Sim if it gets more expensive. Had I wanted to dine in a "wheelbarrow restaurant" and pay the price, Id have done that in the first place. BAD BAD idea Lindens. Think again. |
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nikita2 Denimore
Registered User
Join date: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 130
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10-28-2008 08:27
well said , alot of people dont realise is that the estate owner has to pay 250usd upfront for these sims! True,but he gets it back,i originally paid $500 for my OS ,plus the $37 a month profit to the estate owner |
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Yoki Enoch
Registered User
Join date: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 110
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Terrible, terrible business practices on LL's part
10-28-2008 08:28
Increasing the monthly tier on open sims by 67% is outrageous. It punishes not just open sim owners, but all the residents that are residing on open sims.
If LL continues to manipulate the land market but such outrageous increases in prices, I as a sim owner, am out of this game. I own only one open sim. I have only a few renters on it. They love it there. They will not accept a 67% increase in monthly rental fees, nor will I accept such an increase in paying my monthly tier to LL. LL has, in one silly and greedy policy change, irritated many people and has forced them off their land. |
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Jim Perhaps
Registered User
Join date: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 65
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This is so wrong!
10-28-2008 08:28
To punish people that use their sims as intended is wrong. This I think could simply be a way for LL to force lots of people to abandon sims so that perhaps LL can just recycle them for more profit now that the hardware has been paid for. I don't know but I say just come up with a clear description of how the land can be used, provide tools so the owners can stay within the guidlines and fine those that abuse it. Look at these fabulous places like the Starboard Yacht Club, Sailor's Cove, Nantucket Yacht Club, and others. How will this effect them? If they are abusing things to some degree themselves, and I am not saying they are, just bring them inline.
This below was posted by someone else here. I think they have a very good point +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Class Action Time Um, JZ, I hate to say it, but your link is to an article that is totally out of date - when open spaces only had 1875 prims and could only be bought in groups of 4. By increasing the prims to 3750 and allowing so many sales of open sims, LL implicitly and/or explicitly knew that people were using them for more involved purposes. They also have had the resources to continually monitor those uses, so LL should have called this out at first signs of trouble if there was any. Instead they are playing games. Can anyone else spell Class action. As far as I am concerned, this is fraud on the part of LL. Why increase prims and allow individual sales if not to let people do more on these sims. See ya LL, time to start my own open simulator. Too bad, you lose about 5k US per year from me. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ I wonder if the people at Google see a golden opportunity here.. Today I learned about OpenSim.. never heard of it till I read these posts.. I am going to look into that as I was going to buy and island and an openspace soon.. I will not do that now because though the Lindens need to deal with the abuses I do not want to invest in a company that punishes those that help it grow. It seems to me Linden Labs has never truly had much regard for the people that in that actually create the world here. Or maybe they are just very lame business people. After all we are still only getting around 60 some thousand people logged in and probably more than half are bots camping. After 10 million sign ups there should be hundreds of thousands of real users. I think there would be if LL actually cared about their customers. Maybe they do not know how to grow a business that attracts more real creative users than bots. |