Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

really no seriously no i pay 6720 a week tier and thast pushing it as i have a child and partner to support ok its not that much but to me it is and if you raise the tier then my tier will raise and i cant afford to keep teh sim so your making it unfair. Its just another attempt by linden labs to fuck us over, if someone abuses a sim IP ban them and hardware ban or whatever dont punish the rest of us. Seriously though if this type of shit keeps coming from LL im moving over to avatar hangout where tieri is 50 dollars a month for a 15k prim sim

You've been using more resources than were allocated to you, reducing the resources available to other OpenSpace sims. You just happened to luck out in that the other OpenSpace sims were abiding by the rules so all four of you together didn't suffer lag.

Thanks so much for being part of the problem.

The fact that the economy is in a global recession, second life is a luxury. Its basically a luxury. You going to see several people abandon sims, land, and stop buying linden directly from you because of this. People will simply find another game to play thats not so expensive. If you guys want the take on of the open space money then offer it up for people to buy it directly from you yourself. 300 dollars a month is some peoples rents in the United States. People are losing there homes all over the world. People are losing there jobs, and people simply are having to scale back in more ways than one. Lots of people have budgets, lots don't. Your only hurting your business with bad moves like this. Especially in a time where we see GOVERNMENTS BAILING OUT BANKS. That should give you a BIG CLUE that doing something like this is a majorly bad move. It seems to me you would be happy with selling people a product they obviously want. If you dont want estate owners doing it, then perhaps LINDEN should allow for people to buy them directly from you. Pay the tier to you, and there is no middle man, PERIOD. Times are changing Jack, you better be doing something because the world economy is in a bad situation, people are losing there retirement funds, there houses, and there jobs. You honestly think in these scarey times people are going to continue to poor more money into a game? Most people are that the comfort level as far as things go. While I sure can afford to spend more, am I wiling to at this point. Not really.. I'd rather have a new coach bag or a pair of shoes every month than continue to line the pockets of Lindens. At least then I know that I have something to show for my money. As someone who has spent thousands buying Linden and supporting the second life community. What point is there in doing so anymore?

Nope they wanna stick it to everyone in SL. Pretty soon Sl will be nothing but griefers and Lindens chasing them(Playing Keystone Cops!) around to ban their accouts. (LMAO)

Robo

"I endorse this PRODUCT and/or SERVICE."

right, but that conflicts with their own explanation of a full sim.
A dedicated machine for a full sim. (i've ask them once in a support ticket, and that's what they said back to me.. )
so, it's still their fault, not ours.. in the end.
(they missled many people, with conflicting explanations..)

I thought that "investment" in real estate that doesnt exist and where the supply is endless was a very bad business model. That is , until I read this blog. I am assuming the abuse of an OS is buying and subrenting. Dividing it into lots for rent, malls, stores, clubs. The definition of an OS seemed clear: Background for full sims, parks , open water, in other words , light use. Now people who use SL as a source of income are abusing the OS format. I am hoping you are not surprised. The abuse should be stopped. Your solution to this problem, however baffles me. Here is how it will go: Unreal Estate conglomerates increase rent, people dont pay, and the OS is abandoned. Goodbye tiers. Or the tenants accept the rent increase, the abuse continues. And then there is me, and Av's like me. I have 8 sims, 4 full, 4 OS. We have no tenants, no stores, we dont even have a donation box on the Estate, completely non-commercial. We enjoy building sims and we let SL residents come and explore and take pictures. My OS are seasonal builds. Right now I am working on my Winter sim. We keep our prim count on an OS at about 3000. Now you are asking me to absorb a 66% tier increase because some greedy sods cannot understand simple "light use" guidelines or, more accurately, don't really care. I see myself in 2 months looking at this situation. I am financing abusers, people have abandoned OS and LL must find a way to recoup lost revenue. It would seem that tier increases on Full Sim Islands will be your only alternative. I will abandon my OS based on your position. I can afford the increase but , on principle, I will not pay a "fine" for a rule I did not break. When you come after the full sim Islands to uderwrite this ham-handed solution to abusive residents, I will abandon my full sims. You are creating a different SL than the one I want to live in with this policy. LL is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

No its not great news at all. I have two open space sims to go with my many full sims. They are used for my own home, and my managers home. Nothing more and I paid 500US$ for them + VAT and agreed to pay 75 US$ +VAT tier fee.

Are you seriously saying LL did not know that by increasing the prim limits, allowing people to buy 1 instead of 4 and allowing them to be placed anywhere on the grid that they would not increase usage of them in the way that has happened. O f course they knew and once they had sold enough and have people locked into them they move the goalposts yet again, and try to sting the estate owners, with still more higher charges.

They land dump by creating many new continents of mainland at a much lower tier fee than island owner ship, by increasing tier fees to island owners. They create a two tier charge on islands by introducing VAT in an illegal and unfair way because they moved their financial offices to the UK. (this of course enables them to charge and hold VAT for 3 months earning thousands of dollars interest for nothing, from their euro customers.) and help all non european sim owners to offer lower tier fee prices to their residents.

Each time they enact these crazy money grabbing ideas they lose sim owners, and like us or hate us, without us you have no economy and therefore eventually no sl, as it is the gigantic ammounts of income they soak us for each month that pay for the sl we all like to enjoy.

They make us follow USA restrictive gambling laws on the one hand and badly damage sl economy. They make us follow Euro tax laws on another hand causing further damage to sl economy. Finally they have a third set of laws called "Linden Labs Rape Your Bank Account Law."

All those of you crowing about this who have hardly invested a single penny in sl you will soon be able to go back to your D&D and xbox games because SL is teetering on the edge of extinction. Ask any island owner how many sims they paid 1675US$ for nearly two years or less ago they have had Linden Labs switch off, simply because they are empty, or sold on to hopefuls coming into the platform. I myself have sold 4 and the last 2 switched off cause you can no longer even sell them.

Go ahead laugh your the real losers in this not me

I have visited some openspace sims that acquaintances of mine had bought or rented before I bought one for myself, and later one for a friend. They were all aware that they didn't live in a real, full-featured sim and that things might lag a bit more. They all had set up a little island with a house surrounded by lots of waterspace, and had max. 5 visitors over at a time. If that is abuse, malls in regular sims with 35 concurrent visitors are abuse too. It makes no difference if you have 4 regular sims on a server, all with nearly maxed out primcount and 30+ visitors, or 16 OS sims with nearly maxed out primcount and 7-8 vistors each.

True, some OS sim owners try to squeeze 30 people into their place as well, but LL could have easily handled that with a traffic limit. Increasing the tier is not going to fix this problem. Besides, this problem has always existed on the mainland where people rent a 4096 sqm parcel, build a club and cram 30 visitors into it, thereby ruining the experience for their neighbours. That's no reason for a price increase, only reason to set traffic limitations and/or punish specific abusers.



Why would anybody have complained about getting a higher prim count? 3750 prims x 16 is the same as 15,000 prims x 4, so it made a lot of sense. OS sims cost 1/4 of the price of a regular sim and should therefore have 1/4 of the features as well. Sure, they provide more space, but who would complain about getting more for their money?



How can you possibly say that? This will hurt everyone who currently owns or rents an openspace sim, no matter how they use it. It will also hurt the people who have been saving up for an OS sim, by destroying their dreams. And it will hurt the economy as a whole, by LL pulling more money off the grid that OS sim owners would otherwise have spent within the grid.



Ah, this is where you're happy about the price increase. Of course it will make your island parcels more attractive. Of course you congratulate LL for hurting your competitors and the economy as a whole if it benefits you. Despicable but understandable.



If there should be no builds on OS sims at all, why do they have a prim count of 3750?!? Even the old prim allowance did suggest "Yes, you can build here, you can build something that is max. 1750 prims large". If the type of build is a scenic forest with bird sounds scripted into the prim trees or a single house with a scripted sex bed doesn't make any difference.



Yes, of course. That's the case everywhere in SL. Regular private islands and mainland sims don't run on a dedicated server either (4 sims per server, or 16 OS sims). You will always share a server with others, and if one of your server neighbours squeezes 50 people into their sim, your sim is likely to suffer from lag.

Mainland owners are even worse off since they usually don't own a full sim, so in addition to the other 3 sims on their server they'll also suffer from lag caused by the neighbouring parcels. If that somehow justifies a 66% price increase (and I don't see how it would), all land prices should be increased.



Yes, the additional space might justify a higher price than 1/4 of a regular sim. But a 66% increase? Even if I'd consider that reasonable, the tier of existing OS sims should be grandfathered. As LL did with the old island tier of $195 after they had already sold some regions on class 5 servers. I didn't expect a 66% increase within three months after I bought my 2 OS sims. Nobody would have expected such an outrageous business practice.

For comparison, what would you say if the tier for regular sims would be increased to $490? Some people are clearly abusing regular sims by maxing out the prim count and having insane visitor / customer numbers. Wouldn't it only be fair if all island owners were punished for that? I don't think so. Neither is this change in OS sim picing fair.

Our point in all of this is why offer a sim with 3750 prim usage and not expect people to use them? We for one when renting a open space to tentants (cause you cant buy one if you dont own a full prim sim) make it very clear these are meant for light use. How they use it is entirley up to them??? They have been given 3750 prims to play with and are paying to be there so why not get your moneys worth? IF LL wanted them to be used as water or parks then why release them with 3750 prims? Just makes NO sense!

Even if there's noplace else to go, every day and in every way, LL is making this place no fun to be in anymore.

I rent half a void in Sunlight Sea. I have ONE house in it and use the rest of the space for a halloween maze. Unless you tell me that 3 physical items and a couple dozen listeners is overloading you, this is as low impact as it comes. I'm not even using half the available prims. When the season is over, the region becomes all water again until next Halloween.

I am paying for all of this out of my own pocket. Tips don't even come close to paying the rent. It's a playground for my friends and the public to have fun in, courtesy of moi.

I'm in this to have fun, build, and to let other people have fun - period. And now, because a handful of people are building danceclubs in voids, you are going to raise ALL our prices and give us NOTHING for the additional moneys? All for a game that crashes hourly and with no grandfathering, screwing those of us who are just trying to bring some fun into SL for everyone to share? Why not simply note which voidsims are script heavy and warn them to cut the load or face a premium charge? THAT would be fair - this is not and I already pay more than I should for what I get. While I love sharing and having a good time with people in SL, my wallet has limits. This unwarranted price increase leapfrogs over that limit.

I'm >< this close to telling you where you can move your sim and leaving for good. A lot of people are out of work and can't keep a RL roof over their heads anymore, and you are raising prices? I'm not sure which business and PR schools you guys went to, but you should demand a refund.

I was googling around for prior notices and stumbled on this - slice of irony anyone?

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0024650/

Well said ishtara - the only ones seeing this as a good change are the ones that aren't involved and thus should STFU. Or some opportunists that see an advantage for themself...

Is attacking someone who was using his sim well within limit, even if it wasnt for 50 linden trees out of his 3750 allocation really helpful?

For ALL the problems here is a short answer:

Buy mainland !!
Buy a mainland sim and you are ok.
a Mainland sim costs 195 usd / month, an estate sim 295

100usd more ONLY for the estate control ? *thinks about it* thats crazy, never !!

Next month i would have been a year old on SL, in that time i have been making friends and enjoying the fun. I have finally decided to buy a full sim from linden, to put a few business ideas i have been planning in to effect. However now i have to look at that again as it all seems a bit unstable to me with very bad management and feel i can not risk it.

Spend money on a Full sim to then find the rules may change again on them in the future. The have been whispers for a while, now we know. I understand why, don't get me wrong but you have so gone about it the wrong way.

I have two open space sims both are running fine with no lag etc. Renting an open sim has shown me that it is worth while looking to buy full sim.

I think however I will now look for an alternative. Anyone have any ideas. If we all go there let them know why we came, maybe they can learn from lindens mistake.

I love sl and have made a lot of friends all the globe. Someone commented that linden is only interested in the large corps that spend thousands in here, well rule one in any business when it grows is don't forget where your bread and butter money comes from.

Lets all hope something is sorted out, however i feel as with most large companies it will be done and we will cry a little, then suck it up as always. lets see if they gone to far this time.

eh who deleted my post????

Hello,

We got caught up in the march/april Q2 Pricing and was ONLY offered open space sims as a replacement to our sims being ordered in the middle of this.

Since then we have found our full prim land sims emptying out by the day and we were
forced to follow the demand of our clients and the new trend that Linden labs bought out
to be the next thing to Slice Bread!!!!

We own over 100 open space sims in our estate and work very hard to keep our tentants happy and service there needs and trust me we make very little lindens on them.

We bought these Open spaces under the terms of - Land cost 250usd and Monthly Tiers 75usd. can someone show me where it says that tier may increase to over useage of these sims???

Now your asking us to pay 125.00usd for the same land? NO updates NO new features?
Thats like going to buy a car and in 1 year they bring out the same car with nothing changed and ask 66% more for it. TRUST ME that wouldnt happen in a lifetime!!!!!!

Im trying to justify and understand why you would release such sims with 3750 prim usage
and not allow or expect people not to use 3750 prims?

I feel cheated once again, Not only did we have to lose a HUGE amount of money when you decided to drop the prices on full sims from 1695 to 1000usd resulting in privately owned estates either losing hard earned money or closing down!!

Then you offer changing FULL prim sims to 4 open spaces and charge us for it also!!
So now you expect us to pay 500usd for 4 open spaces? where as the sims we exchanged them for was just 295usd a month?

Those who post here and praise the lindens for this sudden decision clearly have no business background or can feel for people who have invested in Secondlife and spend hours daily working trying to make it a better place for the Residence or feel for the people who own open spaces and are JUST managing to pay tiers to enjoy there land!

So im seeing this as you fooled us once again , made us believe you were doing us a favour in bringing out these new open spaces , estate owners like myself buying up to keep in demand of the sims for our tentants then slam us with a tier increase CAUSE your servers aint handling it and now we have no choice but to pay you 125.00usd or close up estate and lose BIG time once again all within 1 year period!

Cmon tell me your not that heartless linden labs? Tell me your not making us pay for your bad business management and not seeing this coming?

We have worked so hard to get where we are , spend hours daily providing support to our tentants cause Linden labs dont get involved with privately owned estates.

If your going to go ahead with this new tiers , Id hope you offer the estates who traded there FULL prim sims for 4 open spaces at 100usd cost to do it .. a full refund of 100usd and change back the 4 open spaces to full prim sims , cause we for one aint paying you 500usd for something we use to pay 295usd and get 15000 prim and high performance!!

Jack's kinda quiet.......lost for words or just hiding.

The mainland, is laggy, ugly and annoying.

Uhh, Snowflake? Unfortunately, you're really looking dense with that statement! They won't be putting more money into the SL economy if they want to keep their openspace sims, they'll be putting more money straight into LL's pockets.

Hopefully you don't REALLY think that those two are the same?

@babe: again, you dont need to hold the os sims, like you dont haver to buy the car, its by you.

100os sims ? Oo what the hell...

I think you all have too much money, so wheres the problem with this mass of money ?

How does that help people who have bought Openspace sims to use with their islands?

This is the second time that LL has tried to initiate a drastic and disruptive price change.

These changes are alienating to those that do indeed use the service that the price change affects.

I often wonder, as a resident, why prices aren't adjusted more in accordance with a 'spread it out' philosophy. Many businesses have profitable and unprofitable areas, and they adjust prices to make it so that the profitable ones cover the assets lost in the unprofitable ones. This may sound unfair, but a minor increase is a lot more fair than a drastic plan changing price increase.

I know personally that several estates I know are considering bailing out of voids, while they where using them for intended purpose.

I would suggest implementing aditional OpenSpace 'tiers' to compensate, lowering the current OpenSpace prim limit while offering a slightly raised one for sims which are more suitable, price wise, for rental. Additionally adding a hard-limit to avatars allowed in OpenSpace sims to reflect the portion of a single region's processor would make them more viable if resident density is part of the issue.

The current policy is harmful to many more people than the people who caused the issue in the first place... This is bad for business.

just to let you (LindenLab) know .. i owned my OpenSpace Sim since my first days in SL .. that 2 Years now. .. i had it with half the prim count and i loved it and was very happy with your easter present last year to double the prims .. so now you increase the Tier 40 US$ ? are you kidding me ? i could easily pay that 40 US$ more/month ..
but i dont want to pay that because of following reasons:

Personally i think this is your most rediculous decison you ever made .. and i promise i will abandon my OpenSpace Sim right before the end date and in the time between i will stress the simulator out .. if you see a glowing server rack, thats the one my OSS is hosted on .. i lived there in peace for 2 years , alone with just only some friends on it several hours a week. i provided my Full Sim neigbours a nice quit spot between their utterly clogged and filled up Sims ..

and because i know you do not care (as you never did) about me, or the people that supported your truly amazing plattform with Real Money, real Ideas, real Passion and therefore let SL grow..

.. and i know for you or some people reading (or not) this forum post i am just another person that cries .. and i know SL won´t die over this ... but as i read the blog(s) and this forum . this will go into SL history as a black Day .. have fun in the future like i had it in the past ..

and my best wishes and regards to the person that made that decision .. may it be jack L or *.Linden or M Linden ..

And btw. i will not renew my premium subscription .. for what, that you do not care another year ? .... i hope you will rethink your decsion and point of view on that issue ..

sadly yours
Wordfromthe Wise

Your lucky you didnt own 40+ sims and pay 1695 for them only to wake up to a blog with a price decrease of 1000usd per sim!!!