Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

In the gorean roleplay communities it will

- reduce the number of sims by estimated 50%,
- drive out lots of roleplayers from SL-Gor and SL at all,
- so reduce LL's profits instead of increasing them and
- give the ongoing debates on supporting competing plattforms to SL fuel.

I would regret all of that, being owner of 8 sims right now.


I would suggest:

- no more to allow to privately sell Openspace,
- to reduce the number of allowed agents on them,
- to raise the price of newly bought Openspaces severely,
- to reduce the prims on openspaces bought from now on back to maybe 1900.

I just dont get it . I left Sl for awhile and come back to this. It really breaks my heart. I have an idea though. WHY NOT IMPLIMENT A WAY TO ASSURE THE THE PACKAGE OF 4 OS SIMS ARE BUNDLED TO THE SAME ESTATE OWNER! AND LET THE OWNER DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH HIS OR HER OS SIM. Dont raise the prices. You WILL regret this action dearly. Hairy

100% agreed

and so i live in an openspace, with a little hut, and only 2 residents. my friend and myself. and will soon pay 125 for it? cant you categorize the tier Jack?

LL created the ability for us to purchase openspaces for use as private estates and they also flooded the market (and continue to flood the market) with new mainland space. Those that purchased openspaces are required to own at least one full sim - and those are sitting partially empty because of this. So landowners are losing money on the full sims that they are required to own before they can purchase openspaces and now LL is increasing the tier for the openspaces - just months after setting up their availability. I own one full sim (half empty - I can't even GIVE away the parcels to get someone to pay tier) and 3 openspace sims which I fully expect to have empty by January now.

If there is a problem with the use of openspaces address that problem through your almighty technology don't jerk your users around. You've already created a problem that costs me money every single month - do you think I will continue to pay? No... I can be in SL without owning land and without paying LL a single dollar.

Sigh.

OK, no problem. As I mentioned, it's in a link from the land store. And I quote for those too lazy to look it up for themselves:

"For those estate owners wishing to provide empty areas such as water, hills and forest -- we offer Openspaces, light use regions sometimes referred to as voids."
"Normal regions run on their own dedicated CPU, but the Openspace regions run four per CPU; as you would expect, this limits their performance. Openspaces only ever share with other Openspaces on a server.

It is therefore important to understand what these regions are. They are provided for light use only, not for building, living in, renting as homes or use for events. As a stretch of open water for boating or a scenic wooded area they are fine, but we do not advise more serious use than this and will not respond to performance issues reported should you not use them in this way."

Get that? Let me repeat: "They are provided for light use only, not for building, living in, renting as homes or use for events."


https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4235

This benefits no-one but the money grabbers at LL. I rent an openspace SIM along with my partner. We were married there. We have spent a lot of time, money and invested a lot of work, emotion and love into our SIM. The landowner will be forced to pass on the new charges to us in the form of raised tier. We can't afford it and will have to leave.

THANK YOU LL!

We bought an openspace sim two months ago from an estate owner we trust, in lieu of the plot we already bought from her and which was too small for our space and privacy desires. We are using the landspace mostly for trees and animals. We were married on our little island. It was a private paradise for two, with open water around for sailing like all the other openspace sims on the estate for the benefit of all.

But with crashing economies, we can't pay for an increase in tier. It was gonna be a hardship to maintain the tier we had with the changes in the economy. As it is we'll have to sacrifice our paradise, pull back to the mainland we still own, and pack those bits to the rafters with prims instead of leaving breathing space there. Even at that we'll be sacrificing a lot of work and vision.

LL, if there were any comparable product out there, or a way to export the items we've bought inworld to another grid, I think you'd lose a sizeable portion of your paying customers over this.

If LL isn't making money from your venture, and a lot of it, they don't want it. As much as I don't care for Gorean anything, it affects anyone running role plays and creative sims otherwise. Open spaces were a perfect means of expansion for sims that didn't need (or couldn't afford) another full area.

That doesn't matter to LL. Especially if you bought or rented the land from someone else, or so it's really beginning to seem. They probably shouldn't have announced their new mainland area at the same time as this. It seems suspicious.

OPEN SIM PRICE HIKE!// OH LOOK! NEW MAINLAND! COME BUY!

Only 12 hours after the announcement and there are 45 pages of replies, the vast majority of them from people who are seriously upset at the announcement - that's quite a strong message to LLs whichever way you look at it.

For me as a renter of an openspace SIM which is just somewhere I have for peace and quiet, I will be fortunate enough to simply pay the rent until the end of this year and then hit the 'Abandon Land' button. For the true owners, you have my deepest sympathy as I can see you having to do likewise, and it was you folks that paid the setup costs.

Will I remain in SL? Yes, quite probably, but not as someone that will be contributing to the economy any longer - the net result of LLs pushing Opensim prices beyond my reach will mean that I will have approx $100 a month to spend elsewhere. It's not much I know, but that's $1200 a year that LLs will be losing from me one way or another. From reading this forum thread, I'm sure there are others out there who will do likewise - it is important that we do, for LLs to feel the real effect of their truly questionable management strategies. LLs, I think you just pushed the paying residents of SL a little too far with this one, and we are the people who have been paying your salaries.. There is a storm lying ahead for you - I'm sure you've already calculated you will survive it, and I'm sure you will, but at what cost to your company? Market forces will determine your future.

We use many open spaces to fill in our landscape and have made being prim efficient and keeping to 1/4 (less, actually) of the available usage constraints on full regions for all of our OS regions. Prims and textures less than 2500 and as few scripts as possible. And we have decided *not* to rent all of them out as residential places due to their unsuitability for that purpose. That being said, there are no "clubs" or parties being held on them and the "residents" spend most of their time elsewhere in SL, so they are hardly ever loaded or lagged in any significant way.

As I was writing this, I saw our residents group IM pop up (dual monitors with SL open on one) and at least 6 people chimed in with "I was thinking about getting an OS region.. not now!", or words to that effect. And several more will be letting theirs go.

Now, I'll be paying an additional $50/mo for one OS and that effectively kills my plans for another OS on which to place my scripting and building library and self teaching resources.

Good Price... IM me in Open grid

Yeah Jack this is great news....

And to all those complainers... I fully agree with LLs decision. Openspace sims were intended for light load / low prim usage. But just like the mainland with their adfarms and microparcel extortion, these openspace sims have been "gamed", to the detriment of many legitamate users.

Don't blame LL for trying to recover the situation, blame those that are gaming the system. without them, this hike in pricing would not be necessary. LL are just rebalancing the fee structure with the way these openspace sims are currently being used.
I am thrilled to see LL actually taking back control of this 3D world of theirs and making it again a place for all to enjoy... not just a minority.

I have created a Flickr Group to collect up snapshots of Openspace/Void sims to let people know what may be lost from the grid when content creators are priced out of the land ownership market:

http://flickr.com/groups/openspacevoid/

I think of myself as a very liberal person, I don't want a Second Life filled with thousands of laws, but nevertheless a working economy needs some basic rules that the people working in this economy can rely on. Yes, I am talking about trust, trusting that the underlying principles I base my economic decisions on aren't changed permanently.

Forget about the L$, at most that is just a calculating help. The true base of value in SL are land and prims. But can you trust in the value of your land? Doesn't seem so. But if the price of the land isn't based on any kind of market, maybe it would be wiser to give away land for free to the inhabitants. Dear Lindens, just take our tier and if we want to leave (abandon our land - Hahaha), we just stop paying tier and the land goes back to governor Linden. This way nobody would have the feeling that they paid for the servers you are building Nautilus on.

What I am totally missing at the moment is an idea for the the way SL is going. Should I buy a full-prim-sim. Under what conditions and how long will these conditions stay effective? Please Lindens, give us a little bit of stability, let us trust again that the decisions you make have a half-life of more than just a few month. At the moment SL is run like a third-world country. Basic conditions change at the wink of an eye and critical voices are removed from the forums (Yeah, just try to write something critical about how customer communication degraded since Kate took her job at Linden Lab and count the minutes until your entry is removed.).

My feelings? Still not ready to quit, because I invested too much time and feelings into it, but I am feeling very sad, angered, hopeless, helpless in a word ABUSED by the people who make the decisions at Linden Labs.

If your going to make us pay higher tier fees on open space sims why not give us the choice to convert the 4 open space sims back to a full prim sim without paying the $100 fee since you all of sudden feel we need to pay out even more money to you guys.

Great to hear, its time to kick the private estate owners a**

Too long they have made the mainland ugly to get more renters on their sims !
Keep up the good work

You'll give us plenty of warning and a chance to say something when you decide to drop support for a minority operating system but you don't consult any residents when you do something like this?




I'm still trying to find an OpenSpace sim which is laggier than one of your very own sims which you, the Lindens, own ("Mos Ainsley" /354/1d/289652/23.html#post2194218
You can't tell me you didn't expect the amount of usage, when your own openspace sim(s) clearly out pace any of our own, shown by the latency results of sim owners posted in this thread.

So if this is not intended for building within reasonable limits, neither living in and inviting a few friends, what is the purpose? What are the allocated prims worth then? And why allow more than a single agent therein?

I own 4 openspace sims and maintain them in the manner that LL recommends - open water, that I dedicate for my yacht customer's sailing use (as part of the United Sailing Sims). I WILL NOT be able to absorb this ridiculous tier increase, and also will be forced to abandon them (at my purchase cost). I lose, my customers lose, the United Sailing Sims loses, the SL community loses. Thank you Linden Lab.

I find this entire policy unfair. We have bought several open spaces for educational purposes to enhance what we are doing on full sims. We paid a year in advance - what happens to that? We bought most of these within the last few months - and all of a sudden the price goes from 37.50 per month to $125 for 25 percent of the prims and we have a two month notice? I can understand there may need to be increases, but not at almost $100 per month with two months notice. Most of our open space sims will just disappear - we will not be able to afford to sustain them. Is that the purpose of this new policy - to decrease drastically the number of open space sims? If so, it will do as it was intended plus make a lot of people like me very angry.

Katt, are you able to outline a schedule for when you will do the same for mainland residents?

LL is lying to all of us... here's why:

first of all the technical part:

1) openspace sims are limited for resources already, so that 4 of these sims match up a full region.

2) a max of 4 open regions per cpu is (as said in one) calculated, which means that on a quad cpu, there will be still 4 sims max!!!
this does mean, that that each openspace sim, gains more power through time (hardware upgrades), thus less lag, instead of increasing lag, as LL mentioned.

3) bandwidth usage, this is in and utter crap, it doesn't matter if a resident rezzes an object on a full sim or OS, it still needs to be fetched from the asset server, and dus bandwidth.
IT WILL NOT RAISE AT ALL.

4) Modern software can be capped in such way, that each application can be thottled by resource use. (like virtual OS (e.g. vmware, xen like systems)) Thus managing the max usage for memory, cpu etc.. They say they have done it, that's why 1 and 2 reasons again doesn't act up to their reason, for raising the costs.

5) As said before, they have already capped some elements on the OS side for max usage... so, the term OVERUSING doesn't apply under any reason. You cannot overuse if it's already capped.

The social part:

1) People pay real money for this, and are now because of mumbo jumbo technical false accusations, backstabbed horribly.
This is unacceptable, accussing, verdicting even, US for YOUR mistakes, bad implementations, or whatever reason.
Businesses make mistakes, but to say "you as customer are the fault", while it's clearly obvious the customer ISN"T, is fraudulent at the least.

2) They are also making us cheer in joy with the OGP, intergrid system. Pretending they are OPENSOURCING everything eventually.
However, as you can see with these rapid changes in policy and pricing, it pretty clear, they want to CASH CASH CASH CASH before they are opening it up. LL is a hungry MONSTER out of a sudden, and needs much food (killing residents by increasing their lust for money!!!!)

To come short, LL is becoming an aggresive dictator, that simply has one goal: MONEY, MOOOOOOREEEE MONEY. (even if it kills many things around, their status in virtual worlds, the status we as residents had towards them, the future of SL all together...)
THEY ONLY SEE DOLLAR SIGNS, GREEDY NEED FOR IT.
We've slowly seen signs of this change, the pas year or so, with riddiculous changes in pricing and policies... and so on...
BUT NOW the REAL character of the beast LL is revealed to us.


BAD BEASTY BAD BEASTY....

PS. Don't be suprised if they soon come with this kind of change:
"many full sim regions are abused for GIGANTIC usage, while it was intended for normal usage... "
you know what i mean... another crapload of them, for gaining their lust for money.

another few weeks with 0 sales... ty retards

wow i guess you are jumping on the band wagon. let keep the little guy down some more right?? let me tell you one thing i paid a lot of money for what i own on here. you upped the prim limit on the open space to sell more now why are you complaining about it if you wanted to limit use then you should have never raise the prim limit. now if i lose what i have there is a court system that will retrieve my money.