Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

Except in this case a better anology would be that the gonvernment is putting up gasoline to $9 a gallon to account for the worn tires on those abusers trucks.



Again you are wrong. This will not create a stable grid except for the slight easing of lag ont he other 15 OS regions that share with an abuser. It will not improve performance outside of that.

If you only visit mainland or full prim regions, or live as a single resident or couple in a well maintained and set up OS region then it's bugger all difference.



Well, I have abandoned 2 regions so far in the lst 2 months. My last ones will soon go too unless this non-grandfathered change is reversed.

At that time come Christmas day when I hit the abandon button a few more times it's "So long and thanks for all the (virtual) fish"

Then you thought wrong. LL has stated from DAY ONE on the OS issue that it was NOT meant for residential usage. It's OPEN SPACE - Water, trees, etc. Hence the name. The land store has always had that spelled out clearly.

I feel a little bad for people that bought them for residential use, but not that much. The reality is that the performance of OS sims is not 1/4th that of a full sim, it's 1/6 to 1/8th due to general sim overhead (and remember - you have more LAND area to deal with too.)

This is the very reason I bought a full sim for my house and play space, and rented out the rest. I saw how OS sims performed and I didn't want those headaches.

LOL, Jack... Did LL go for advices to the RL real estate holdings that just became bankrupted this month? Raising the prices will solve the "over-usage" problem? Yeah it surely will, since the number of OS will rapidly decrease. Any other, more technical solutions maybe? Btw, I live in an OS since a few months and never had performance problems. Personally I believe the problem you mentioned is just been made up. Or doesn't affect, just a very limited number of areas.

About the prims... if you have a land that is 256mx256m, what can you do with a few prims? A few linden trees here and there, and 1 house that eats up all the prims when furnished? Sounds cool to me (eurgh... just been ironic). 3750 prims are enough, but 1875 aren't really, that's why I wasn't interested in the previous OS's.

About the scripts, hey, have you heard, the new CPUS on the market are strong enough to spend a few milliseconds on running scripts in a sim... shall I donate you with a new Core2duo, that is strong enough to run a couple of OS's?... You maybe should spend more attention on the physics engine, because that is the source of the lag. Just drop out a few physical objects that move and see that proved.

I simply don't understand, in whose tiny brain the idea of raising the fees will solve the problems, did come up. It only solves the problems by closing the affected sims, and a lot more whose tenants not willing to pay $150 or more for a bit limited service...

Where I live, a couple of years ago, happened there was too much apple grown. The apples been unsellable, so the farmers decided to chop the trees - problem solved. Oh, the farmers been jobless, since a new tree takes 10-15 years to grow fruits again. You going to do the same. Hope you reconsider this absolutely silly and pointless decision, or, like someone wrote above, people will vote by their feet going out of the door. Me too.

So now I will have to abandom my 3 week old openspace sim that I call my home and that sees no heavy traffic and no heavy use except from myself. I have to abandom it because I wont be able to afford the increased fee.

That means the180 Dollars that I spent inititally to get the Openspace sim are wasted, gone down the drain, up in smoke. Will I get my 180 Dollars back Lindens ? I doubt it.

Thank you Lindens for once again kicking your residents in the balls.

the logic behind restricting the sale of open spaces, increasing tier and purchasing costs so dramatically, and blaming innocent victims who bought these sims and used their resources when LL lowered the price and increased the prims, is so flawed, silly even, that i really think the truth is a new policy to minimize the expansion of private estates in the land business, to increase LL's profit in land by cutting out the middle man and collecting their tier directly.

by prohibiting the sale of Open Spaces, a land owner cannot deed to group, give full land rights to a renter, or even sell all estate rights to a buyer. so the policy eliminates any usefulness of Open Sims to someone in the land business.

ironically, the policy also makes Open Spaces too expensive to use as water sims or for beautiful spaces.

disclaimer: this is how things seem to me. i have no facts or inside information to come to these conclusions, other than what i see for myself.

If the problem as LL states is excessive traffic, why not implement a traffic cap for openspace sims? Or create a two tier system, type A openspace sims are capped at 20 avatars total at any time, and type B are capped at 30 but cost more.

The price increase does nothing to solve the claimed problem, and instead is just an arbitrary "fine". The bait and switch aspect of this is very unpleasant to swallow though.. There needs to be some kind of sweetener added to the situation, either increased server support for traffic commesnurate with the increased tier (notice i'm not asking for more prims!) or a buyback program where LL will refund the initial purchase price (as the market will be glutted with people selling openspace sims, and finding a buyer will be impossible).

I think the general public has been fooled. Granted if their is an issue for operational costs for opensims there are more solutions than punishing the whole.

I believe that the intention is for profit by LL, and the words they use for a reason are not as they state. I also believe this has been in their agenda for a long time coming, and it will continue being a way of operation for LL. In the end, it isn't about the consumer, it is about greed.

LL COULD post a threshold, and mark those OpenSims who are capping the threshold, and make those pay for the overhead of operations costs concerning Opensims.

But instead they charge the whole lot of OpenSim owners - which is in opposition to their reasoning. Baited, and switched.

There ARE other games out there folks.

YEAH, and i have also noticed most of them are SL Mentors haha
Man i am so glad i never got a notice to renew.... most mentors need mentors,
someone put it more elequantly then i could (and spelt Better)


3087 Prims
~13ms for Physics
~5ms for Scripts
1468 scripts

But if we use them we are "over using or abusing"
Sad but give a company enough rope.... virtual or not.

My dream to have a business and horse ranch on a little piece of virtual heaven will go up in smoke on January 1. I may as well set a match to all my hard work; an investment of more than money, but also of emotion, passion, and many many hours of work in RL devoted to creativity and development of my personal vision. Jack Linden, you must be aware by now, from reading 99% of the reactions to LL's move to raise prices on OS by 67%, that a lot of dreams will be going up in smoke on January 1. People, real people with visions and dreams are being effected adversely. Are you people in LL totally heartless? You were the ones that offered OS sims, at prices the "working class" could finally afford. You are tanking SL's middle class. My OS sim is my business, my lifeblood's work. It has grown, but you are cutting it short prematurely by this huge increase in price. You've just set the death sentence on my business, RL and SL. Do you not understand the implications of your actions regarding this for the small business person? Or does it simply not matter? I guess I have just answered that question. It does not matter. My OS sim is a beautiful, quiet place, where people can ride thru open country on horseback, explore, and relax. I do not rent out "any" part of my OS sim. It is primarily in it's natural state. I prefer it that way. I can work in peace and quiet, and still have a small area where I can sell my creations. I am proud of the fact that to date, my creations have "paid the tier". But come January 1, even Donald Trump would have a difficult time justifying paying this huge price increase you have planned. My creations won't be able to cover tier. I'll have to pack up my tent. It hurts to lose ones home, and business in the same fell swoop. Please rethink what you are doing to those of us who depend upon your company as more than a mere game to play; but those of us that have put our own blood, sweat, and tears into it.

/me planning on sitting back and watching the crash and burn.

I have to say I find hilarious the occasional post here by a person who thinks increasing the prices of Open Space sims is going to actually make them run faster... and thanking Linden Lab for the privilege of paying $50 more a month for their sim. LOL LOL LOL

Like the man said, you can fool some of the people all the time...

Pertinent blog post:

http://elfclan.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2295446%3ABlogPost%3A4151

IBM already have a serious investment in OpenSim, and are working with LL, OpenSim and a bunch of us with an interest in the area, on interopability. This is what the http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v45EOma7wDo video demonstrates.

If you want to try going it yourself for Second Life hosting, you can grab OpenSim, server hosting of your choice, and get yourself connected to the OpenSim grid of your choice (there's a bunch out there, have a Google around). I suspect you'll rapidly discover it's not as easy as it looks, and while you might undercut them on the server hosting it will eat a lot more of your time.

The raising of the fees has nothing to do with the "overuse" of opensims. It is purely a profiteering action. That has been proven by the previous posts showing LL to be the biggest "abuser" of OS. If you want to believe the lies, go ahead. The truth is LL sees no value in consumer level now that they see the promise of corporate use on the horizon, and are trying to milk the last few dollars out before they cut the consumer out completely. It's short term greed, the business model of the 90s, resurfacing. You want the truth? Ask Jack to provide numbers. He won't. He'll just keep saying "our research shows" without any substantiation.

/me planning on sitting back and watching the crash and burn.

I have to say I find hilarious the occasional post here by a person who thinks increasing the prices of Open Space sims is going to actually make them run faster... and thanking Linden Lab for the privilege of paying $50 more a month for their sim. LOL LOL LOL

Like the man said, you can fool some of the people all the time...

Pertinent blog post:

http://elfclan.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2295446%3ABlogPost%3A4151


(had to re-post this due to a system glitch)

Without a parallel upgrade of the tier for mainlanders, all this measure does is push more estates into insolvency. We already pay 295 on our class 5 sims, we subsidize the mainland sims that get better access to noobs and cost LL a lot more to support, but only pay 195 on a class 5 sim.

Given the illegality of forcing upgrades on people, this new pricing policy will be seen by lawyers as illegal anticompetitive trust activity and will draw Linden Lab into an anti-trust investigation and prosecution, if they do not raise tiers on mainland sims.

This rubbish of open space sims being over used, why did you up the prims to 3700 per open space if they were only intended "as open areas like ocean with little or no content and traffic"? You gave us the prims to use, and we used them. i have 12 islands, 3 full sims, and 9 open space sims, Ive used each open space sim for a maximum of 2 to 3 residential tenants on the ENTIRE SIM, living quietly with lots of space and very little traffic.
How can people abuse resource that you have openly supplied? If you wanted them to use less, why didn’t you just allow less. Or warn against this over use. For Heavily loaded sims, why not enforce restrictions? lower the allowed content and agent limit. I cant believe for one second that linden labs are incapable of restricting heavy usage on an open space sim.

When we bought these sims, we were given NO INDICATION of what was allowed, not allowed or expected, you simply made them cheep, easy to buy and 6 seconds delivery time.. a fantastic way to sell thousands.. Why did you not tell us what was expected BEFORE PURCHASE? how much are we meant to use? what is your "intended usage" of a standard open space sim. Why when we bought these open space sims were we not given THIS information, and certainly raising the prim allowance to DOUBLE was not an indication that you wanted us to lower the usage. You have given us no warnings, no information on whats expected and no NOW, NO CHOICE to either lower the content and traffic, and maintain the low tier, or have more content and traffic, and thus pay the extra land tier, You have conveniently, NOT given us adequate warnings on what you would consider “correct usage”, sold thousands of open space sims, and now hit EVERYONE, regardless of how they use their sims.

First the trick of dropping the price of full sims, with quick 6 second delivery of open space sims and a rock bottom tier, you sold thousands, u flooded the market, hurt all the big estate owners, and lost a good many! You gave us a few months to stabilize, and now hit us again. It seems clear to me, you are wanting thousands of people to abandon land, because many simply cannot afford this 60% increase with 2 months warning. Thousands of open space sims will be dumped, uve made the purchase fee, so u lose nothing. We lose everything!

People like me have given life to your world. My islands have given homes, entertainment and a rich second life to thousands of your sl residents. You have shot us in the head. My islands costs, land tiers, staff, musicians, advertising is huge, and can no way absorb this price increase on 9 open space sims. i for one find your price decrease and increase on a whim, an extremely unstable economy, and one that may well not be worth the fight. Personally, this may be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. For me, and im sure a lot of others, running a business here is proving to be hazardous.
Kaiya

And nobody talks about Roleplay-Sims? My own is used to fill up a former empty Space in an Area of other RP-Sims. It's desert, 2000 Prims used, only payed by myself - is this abuse? *sighs*

Your analogy is apples to oranges. If you and I each purchased a two ton truck and you abused yours, YOUR maintenance costs would go up, not mine.

I think that's our point.

Sharie: "Then you thought wrong. LL has stated from DAY ONE on the OS issue that it was NOT meant for residential usage. It's OPEN SPACE - Water, trees, etc. Hence the name. The land store has always had that spelled out clearly."

Pardon me Sharie... would you mind providing a link in which Linden Lab said Open Space sims were not for residential use? I'd really like to see that. Or more precisely... I'd really like to see you try to produce such.

Please, Jack ... can you be so kind and diligent to enlight us and tell us what steps you took in order to prevent and warn people from misusing the Open Spaces ?

How did you warn people not to use them in the wrong way ?
When did you warn Estate Owners for not using them as residential ?
How many warnings did you send to Estate Owners about the heavy use of scripts, for example ?

Pardon me Sharie... would you mind providing a link in which Linden Lab said Open Space sims were not for residential use? I'd really like to see that. Or more precisely... I'd really like to see you try to produce such.

Sounds like Obama's plan to me. My wealth to your pocket

This is an illegal abuse of monopoly power by LL. Simply put, no business that feared competition could do this. It is very clear that LL has no desire to abide by the law, and it's employees are are willing to go along with this. That's very sad, really.

This will make some people's lives much better. Large land barons will cheer this move, their competition just got destroyed at a stroke. For those of us who are small and new, this is the end of our existence. The result is that large superland dealers will control the land business even more firmly, and people will pay whatever rates they choose. The escape of openspace sims, because it will be much more expensive, will force people to either upgrade to full sim, downgrade their lives significantly, or go.

It was nice knowing most of the people I met in SL, I'm going back to my obscure existence. I can't say I have good words for anyone who works in Linden Labs, everyone of you is a thief and a criminal, who steals money from little people to feed your faces. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Perhaps some day you will be.

This means:

1) Linden Lab admits there was NO recommendation on how to manage openspaces properly (the only statement is: "An Openspace is a type of Private Region intended for light use, such as countryside or ocean. Openspaces run 4 regions to a single CPU, and support 3750 primitives. Openspaces are only available to Residents who already own Private Regions."



2) Linden Lab does NOT consider the fact that all residents are NOT necessarily technical persons, a good part of them when acquiring an openspace just follow the figures they are granted with (3750 prims - 100 agents - texture upload for terraforming that may unfortunately be long a load/rez - voice audio and video capabilities, and so long and so forth)

3) Linden Lab policy deployment when starting promoting openspaces some months ago was not technically evaluated at all.


Any other comment/reply of the like, Jack? Most of us know you are not "the" person to blame, this decision on OS pricing and fees not being yours, but please try to reply in a more clever manner next time.

I think Landowners who uses the OPen sim correctly are going to punished ...
but the people who used the open sim to make money of it, should be handling the increase,
make those sim as "small Island " increase their prices as you set, and leave the sim owners who us the opens spaces for water and light alone.

I think this will help everyone,,

thank for taking the time to read this

God Bless

Crissy