Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden
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eku Zhong
Apocalips = low prims
Join date: 27 May 2008
Posts: 752
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10-27-2008 23:32
we have 1 full and 2 voids.. for our own use of course having 2 full will now make more sense. we will have more prims but less space. we lost with the price hike of the full sims.. we bought end of december ... we will lose again now. but until there is a viable alternative to SL .. and if we want to carry on with our business, we will just have to bend over and take it.
it is ppl like the yatching sims and ppl who use the voids for geniune use who will suffer most and wrongly so. but with LL record of yoyo pricing with almost no notice, ppl who went out on a limb and bought void after void for renting out.. its hard but the risk was there and they chose to take it.
of course this doesnt make their loss any easier to bear.. and it doesnt make what LL did right.. but i suspect there are more abused voids than correctly used ones, so LL is reacting to the majority use of void sims.
the whole thing stinks.. worse than any of the other flash decisions so far.. and the impact is going to be far greater than anything before.
the least LL can do is bring back the old 4 pack 1000 something prim voids for ppl like the sailing community and proper use customers, and waive the reconvert back to full sims for ppl who converted from full to void.
might make things a little less messy.
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Insky Jedburgh
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2006
Posts: 19
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10-27-2008 23:33
Many of you have not been around long enough to recognize what this kind of move will do to the SL economy, but I have. SL never recovered from those moves, which is why it's growth pattern has become veritably stagnant the last year or so.
I was hoping against hope that LL was smarter than this finally and would lay low while the real world faces the true possibility of a shut down economy. This move by LL will end the small business economy of SL once and for all, and good timing too my friends, good timing.
Since almost every single SL resident dislikes this move, why not just retract it now, and not go through with it? Show some support for the community that has supported you LL.
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Ishtara Rothschild
Do not expose to sunlight
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 569
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10-27-2008 23:34
From: Snowflake Fairymeadow Obviously I do not like Openspaces and am glad to see that LL is doing something about them finally.
As for several folks calling for "full disclosure" from me do we need to go back to the community standards? Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience.
People act like I am doing something unethical by having a differing opinion than the overwhelming majority. I have never been a sheep and will continue to express my own opinions here, whether they are popular or not. If you do not own any openspace sims and come here to support LL's decision, post that you fully support a decision that hurts a great deal of people and doesn't concern you at all, other than perhaps increasing your own profits at the expense of others, then yes, you are indeed doing something unethical. The same goes for the many fanbois who don't own any land at all, but cheer LL on every time they hurt those who not only pay for the grid and thereby for everyone's entertainment but also provide the major share of the content that makes SL so popular. This thread is meant for feedback from the part of the community that owns or rents OS sims, and countless non OS sim owners happily cheering "Yay, good move, we all want to pay more" provides LL with a skewed impression.
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Tan Tantalus
Flirtatious Fae
Join date: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 17
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Bad for business
10-27-2008 23:34
Ok so you are going to push the price up from $75 to $125 or for me that will be £50 to £80.
£80 for a sim that is my home, has nowhere near the maximum prim allowance and so few scripts on it they are hardly worth mentioning. On top of that the available cash I have to actually pay for it dwindles each day as the world enters a global recession.
This is a very bad move indeed.
You are charging a penalty fee - not enhancing service in any way.
This is sheer profiteering in my opinion - you have seen the number of Openspace sims being used shoot up and you want to line your pockets as a result.
Well I am very sorry not only for you but also me as I will simply not be able to justify the personal spend come January 2009. I will not revert back to purchasing mainland and then paying you land usage fees. Sorry but if you proceed with this you will lose my custom.
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 Tan Tantalus
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Stevie Basevi
Registered User
Join date: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 1
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10-27-2008 23:36
This is very upsetting news to me. I live alone on my open sim. My prim usage is way under my monthly allowance. My sl husband died in rl in February, and I have his memorial site there. He left me a rose before he died, and when I have to move, because I can no longer afford the tier, I will lose the last thing that he left me. I dont spend alot of time on the sim, but its been a comfort knowing that it was there, and that this was our special place. Please reconsider, and increase tier on the people who abuse the land usage. Not on all of us who have been thoughtful in our usage. Or at least grandfather us in at the old price. This will hurt so many. And for what?
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
Registered User
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 704
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10-27-2008 23:37
From: Ishtara Rothschild If you do not own any openspace sims and come here to support LL's decision, post that you fully support a decision that hurts a great deal of people and doesn't concern you at all, other than increasing your own profits at the expense of others, then yes, you are indeed doing something unethical.
The same goes for the many fanbois who don't own any land at all, but cheer LL on every time they hurt those who not only pay for the grid and thereby for everyone's entertainment but also provide the major share of the content that makes SL so popular. This thread is meant for feedback from the part of the community that owns or rents OS sims, and countless non OS sim owners happily cheering "Yay, good move, we all want to pay more" provides LL with a skewed impression. Chris said that I was increasing my profits at the expense of others. He only did that as a personal attack because he does not agree with me and does not like me. He has a history of such behavior in the forums against those who disagree with him. So if you are the same as him, then keep perpetuating it. I recognize that many people feel hurt by this, but attacking me for it is only going to gain bad karma. And in case you did not read what happened to my openspace sim, I suggest you go back and read it. It was far worse than just a mere price increase.
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Shannara Snowdrop
Registered User
Join date: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 2
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Unbelievable
10-27-2008 23:38
I have one OS...only 2 of us live in it. I'm not trying to make money off of others. I don't abuse the 'servers'. When I've talked to others and they talk about wanting an OS I tell them they aren't made for clubs and such. Why are those that are just living in them being penalized for the idiots putting clubs and such on them? Why can't you just limit the scripts being run? The most I've had in the OS at 1x is maybe 5 people. I had hoped to get at least two more OS's. Now, I don't know. Yes, I would've rented them out. But, NOT to anyone wanting to put a club/mall or some such. Strictly residential. As far as moving to the mainland...heck NO. Why? Absolutely NO privacy there. People right there on all sides. We put a lot of time and work into our 'home' here. I don't want to lose it but this price increase and NOT getting anything in return for it...it might happen. Might have to toss someone off our full-sim to have a place to live. Thank you LL....this is a very bad decision. I'm sure you could just penalize those that are abusing this..but, I guess it's about the all-mighty $ instead of the people that 'live' and play and enjoy sl.
P>S> Used to be I thought y'all cared about your 'residents' I guess that was a wet dream. Used to be that a paying member could own land but a non-paying one couldn't...unless thru a 'landlord'. My how things have changed... and not all for the good
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Hern Worsley
Registered User
Join date: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 122
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10-27-2008 23:39
SL can only exist if it has a healthy economy many people including myself will only work within reasonable income vs outgoings i and thousands of people cant exist in open space under these new terms wether it be for a shop,home or scenery all of which they are perfectly suited for if managed correctly which the MAJORITY are. My point is the huge demand for open space SIMs for all kinds of uses and tbh im yet to enter an Open space SIM that is any more or less lagged than a FULL sim (often they are less laggy i find) .. Anyway my point is the demand was so huge for open space SIMs because this was the level at which most of us can function happily within SL and continue to help develope this world. All i can see now is a huge dumping of these SIMs a reduction in the total land mass of SL a downturn in business and worse conditions for renters in general. This leaves LL and the users both losers....I imagine many people will simply abandon SL entirely..
Finding any sane explanation for this move is beyond me currently unless ofcourse LL have plans im not aware of.
Please LL from an avid supporter reconsider this move trust me its only going to harm this world.
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Sharron Schuman
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 34
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this must be a bad joke
10-27-2008 23:39
uh... have you people lost your minds? where are the people that have business sense and customer service knowledge.
I am a geek, but this sounds like something a geek cooked up that has no knowledge or understanding of real world service and marketing.
to Linden labs a big hearty WTF?
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SkyeRyder Varriale
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
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10-27-2008 23:43
I think the so-called abuse of open space sims seems to point out an underlying need for sims that are priced more reasonably than a full sim but have more flexibility/prims than an open-space sim. While I understand the need to upgrade servers to meet the needs, if you price us so high we can't do efficient commerce then why stay? 125.00 month is a huge increase, maybe consider a lower tier? Or more prims at least? Or two open space sims per server instead of 4?  )
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Annalise Ember
Registered User
Join date: 3 Nov 2007
Posts: 42
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10-27-2008 23:43
From: Lucille Babenco Do we have to give LL more money?, why they don't not request it to IBM? ........ or the bloody oil companies who make billions per quarter and cut back refining everytime they feel the need to gouge.
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Sal Salubrius
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 3
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A Business Viewpoint During The Global Recession
10-27-2008 23:44
This is the worst thing to happen to SL land in a long time, the timing could not be worse.
The costs of everything in RL are increasing rapidly and due to the lack of excess income people have to spend in SL, SL sales of everything have been steadly dropping. People are finding it hard to be able to afford the current tiers and instead of reducing tiers to help people and taking a short term profit loss for the long term benefit of SL, you are doing this!
I work for a company in the estate land sales and rentals field of SL, and aswell as the terrible losses Linden Labs will take due to people not being able to afford their openspace sims direct with them, they will deffinately not be able to afford their land on openspace sims that our company owns. Many land based businesses will fold due to this, and i hope we are not one of them.
My only suggestion is some form of subsidy for businesses who are in this realm of SL.
Dreading the end of the year, Sal Salubrius
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Taimaru Hak
Registered User
Join date: 12 May 2008
Posts: 49
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10-27-2008 23:45
I can see so many upcoming projects abandoned and many existing ones going as well.
I could understand a small price increase, but this huge amount (67%) is ridiculous.
/me removes LL off his Christmas Card list and starts investigating OpenSimulator.
Stevie Basevi, sorry to hear that you may possibly lose your memorial. Hold on to it for as long as you can, in case LL suddenly switch their brain on and realise they are making a huge mistake.
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Ithilwen Moonites
Registered User
Join date: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 10
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if LL only had a brain...
10-27-2008 23:45
From: SkyeRyder Varriale I think the so-called abuse of open space sims seems to point out an underlying need for sims that are priced more reasonably than a full sim but have more flexibility/prims than an open-space sim. While I understand the need to upgrade servers to meet the needs, if you price us so high we can't do efficient commerce then why stay? 125.00 month is a huge increase, maybe consider a lower tier? Or more prims at least? Or two open space sims per server instead of 4?  ) Only if they had a brain could they figure that out my friend... but Hewwooo! no one home, yet the lights are on... *giggles*
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Jolly Jedburgh
Hoof Hearted?
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 58
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10-27-2008 23:46
From: Aylah Hope Why did the prim use on openspaces increase to the double if the meaning was not to use it? Because it made them more appealing to buy and pay $75 a month until LL is ready to give us a choice of either 1 abandon the sims for them to re-sell it as a full sim where they can charge the hardware cost once again as a pure profit 2 be utterly disappointed by the way they manhandle this grid and it's occupants and creators but fork up the $ anyway how about we all dump Linden Lab for another grid? Now that would make them happy, nobody to abuse their beloved sims and they can sell all the hardware on eBay. I can see it already: 1500 x near new servers for sale due to bad management, Auction $0.99 BID NOW!
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discman McDonnell
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 1
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the end of SL
10-27-2008 23:47
after jan 2009 Linden Labs close down because this prove how to do bad business. there coming more then thousend 1000 sims back to LL because its no fun anymore Linden Labs is digging there own grave
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Fogwoman Gray
Registered User
Join date: 9 Oct 2006
Posts: 5
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The Land Barons are not hurting on this one
10-27-2008 23:47
This is going to hurt all the small folks who bought several voids or added a number of voids to their sims and have been using them properly. It is very bad faith on LL's part to sell the massive number of these as they have been doing, and then suddenly announce an enormous price increase just as the economy tanks and people are seeing their vacancy rates skyrocket. I am a renter (besides my 512 First Land allottment), but have many friends who are not "greedy Land Barons" several other friends will now have to give up the voids they have spent so much time and money setting up. From a business perspective raising prices as the economy takes a nosedive is completely insane, especially if you manage to alienate and bankrupt many of your customers in the process. From an ethical perspective (Google it - E...T...H...I...C...S) : Once again....SHAME ON YOU!
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Alicia Sautereau
if (!social) hide;
Join date: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,125
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10-27-2008 23:50
i guess no linden reply can only mean one thing
the finger
edit: and a closed blog cause of bad replies
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Ithilwen Moonites
Registered User
Join date: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 10
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10-27-2008 23:51
From: Alicia Sautereau i guess no linden reply can only mean one thing
the finger
edit: and a closed blog cause of bad replies that was sweet!! wish i thought of that XD
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Alisha Matova
Too Old; Do Not Want!
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 583
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10-27-2008 23:52
I was thinking that too, thanks for the *Discussion* Jack. =|
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Vittorio Beerbaum
Sexy.Builder Hot.Scripter
Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 516
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10-27-2008 23:52
From: Shannara Snowdrop Why can't you just limit the scripts being run? The most I've had in the OS at 1x is maybe 5 people. Before you read my reply: i can live perfectly with no scripts and 5 avatars on my OS... because it's made just for recreativity (indeed i own my regular SIM like you)... BUT >> Is that such prone condition (proposed by you and someone else) that make us puppets in the hands of LL. Please no offence, what i mean is: i AGREE on the solution proposed (limit the avatars, throttling the scripts.. etc.) *BUT* before applying these rules, they need to give to us the option to NOT accept them and refund us of the initial entry price. Why? Because we bought a product with certain specifics, the specifics are: max 100 avatars, max 3750 prims, no script limiting; whever you applying new limitation you are going to modify (by your side) the original agrement, so you MUST give to me the option to not accept the new one WITHOUT any penalization, and it means without loosing my money (entry price) because of your unilateral decision. So: - Decide how the "new" OpenSim should works (precise rules!); - Ask those one that already have bought one if they accept the new rules; > If they doesn't: give em their money back and say goodbye; > If they will: they will continue to pay the fees (new fees) and live with it. Forcing us to pay (more and with more limitation) for something that we bought already for a certain price and without these "new" limitation is not just unfair, it is a ripoff, because you attracted ppl before, got their money, and then you changed the rules.. pretending to not give those money back. I'm not talking just for myself, i have a RL job, probably i can spend $50 more (i own just one openspace) but i can imagine all the ppl out there that are owning an openspace just because it costs $75... if you increase the price by 66% you gonna heavily impact on these ppl! They would be already unhappy to abandon their projects, at least doesn't make the things more unhappy... think about a solution, increase the fees, but give that damn money back to these ppl!
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Dytska Vieria
+/- .00004™
Join date: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 768
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10-27-2008 23:53
From: Sedary Raymaker You heard it here first. Everyone who own OpenSpace sims is a scam artist. Just ask Dytska. I don't think I said Everyone. You can search the forums and find many instances of unhappy customers buying land and then finding out it was on over-utilized openspace sims.
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Feliciana Zabaleta
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 6
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Yay More Deception From Linden Labs
10-27-2008 23:54
Addendum: Can you say "Deception" since Linden Labs and the myopic leadership has never clearly defined anything. But hark we are in a global recession lets up the ante and drive everyone away. Ponders how long Linden Labs wishes to stay in business, or maybe they use Enron tactics and cannot account very well. I hope they have lots of resources for all this soon to be abandoned land and some great legal counsel for all the possible litigation that may brew. Instead of fixing the "Real" issue good old "Smiling Jack Linden" makes us all pay the penalty. Also Smiling Jack (Or "One Eyed Jack"  has been blind to the real issues of network problem and gridlock, like his beloveddly broken asset and database servers. Thanks Jack we'll be cancelling our pemium accounts and eating that huge investment in open space sims. Wish you well when you're the last resident here on your open space sim.
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Ishtara Rothschild
Do not expose to sunlight
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 569
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10-27-2008 23:56
From: eku Zhong we have 1 full and 2 voids.. for our own use of course having 2 full will now make more sense. we will have more prims but less space. we lost with the price hike of the full sims.. we bought end of december ... we will lose again now. but until there is a viable alternative to SL .. and if we want to carry on with our business, we will just have to bend over and take it. If you abandon your 2 OS sims and buy a full sim, LL will basically sell you the same product twice. I'm in the same situation, 1 full sim and 2 recently added OS sims. But I don't see a point in throwing even more setup fees at LL. Nor can I see why I should pay additional tier for no extra service, like an increased prim count or performance.
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Zinbaco Kattun
Registered User
Join date: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 29
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10-27-2008 23:57
We rented out openspaces and refused to let folks use these for anything other than residential and also rented out whole islands rather than parcelling them up into smaller pieces which again we felt would lead to issues. Some wanted clubs and we would not let them given the advice from Linden Labs. We only use these for residential and some pretty much do nothing other than be there adding scenery and for the residents to use for things like sailing, and walking - exacly what LL had recommended and now we are being penalised. We were already thinking of returning some of these given the current climate and this pice hike by LL has just sealed that decision. Of the 8 openspaces we have 3 are definitely being returned with a potential of a 4th going. And that is before the residents have made their decisions.
We thought we had built up a good friendly estate for relaxation - all that has now been destroyed and we will most likely be cutting back to the bear minimum as we cannot afford the luxury of openspaces just sat there doing nothing. Oh - isn't that what they are for ??
Zin
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