Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

I was going to be all outraged about this, but then I remembered this is Linden Lab after all, and I shouldn't expect any better.

It will be a shame to see all the sailing openspaces being closed down, not that I personally used them, but I sympathise.

Do you want links to all your posts? They are evidence enough. Do you deny you are against opensims because they cost you renters? Tell us how it will help the economy for people to either leave SL all together or to have less money because of increased tier payments.

This is really bad news

My dreams have been shattered with this announcement.

I am a (light-use) owner of an openspace, joint owner of a water openspace and was contemplating getting another openspace.

Now I think I may have to get rid of the openspace I own, not buy another one and see how my friend feels about keeping the waterspace.

I could get a full sim I guess but then wouldn't have as much land as I have with the 2 (or 3) openspaces and would cost more.

It doesn't make sense LL offer something which is 1/4 the offerings of a full sim (1/4 prims and performance) yet just under 1/2 the price.

Great timing (not) considering the world economy at the moment

LL, how about doubling the prims and performance for that price, or abandon openspaces altogether and offer a mega-sim which is same number of prims of a full sim but 4 x the area. If technically possible, the mega-sims could have no sim crossing problems where the normal sim size borders would be.

We have 9 open sins around our sim used as intended aka "scenery" there is no way we can afford this price increase on 9 OS sims .. so will be returning pretty much all of them and taking the hit on the purchase price .. its unbelievable that LL crank up the price and for what"benefit" ?

We also have 4 other OS which we do rent out to friends to live on .. They knew what they where when they took them they use them for themselves to live on, at best half a dozen avi's for tea and crumpets and a place to call "home"

I Dont see any where in the blog post any thing about "improving" OS performance for those used for residential purposes AND for those willing to pay the increase . All I see is "Lastly we will begin to pro actively discuss overloaded Openspaces with their owners" I read that as "we will more actively police and STOP heavy use"

so it`s in the interrest of the economy that estate owners and residents with a void sim will abandon (throw away their purchase fee + all tiers till date) and for users to just downgrade?

you are going to profit for the pointless losses of these people and by the looks of it, gloating about it

like i posted previously, only reason i`m looking forward that normal sims get onpar with voids ($495 tier) is to see your misery while LL keep their mainland sim tier at $195 and your residents flee for the price increase to endup in you abandoning your sims back to LL with NO refund what so ever

if they pull this off, it`s just a matter of time for the next tier bomb

I posted my story of why I hate Openspaces a few posts back. Maybe you forgot to read it because you were too busy trying to make me look like a bad guy because I won't jump on the "LL is bad" bandwagon this time. But I am done responding to you and your personal attacks against me just because my opinion differs from yours. How are YOU being hurt by this change? Will your tier on your openspaces be raised?

OK Snowflake et al.


Please can we not have personal attacks on the forum, we are nearly all in accord here that LL are wrong to do this, Snowflake has made his/her point that he/she is not against it, we all know that now, so please give it a rest, we dont really want this forum closed because iy got out of hand, that will only be playing into LL hands.

The whole thing is starting to sound as if Prok were here

Chris..snowflake..take it inworld to IM......you have lost relevance to the real issue, that issue is NOT how many sims people are renting or owning, but the impacting price rise for ALL OSS owners when a few are exceeding specs.

I co-run an open sim. Yes, we have businesses on it, but it's basically a city (Venice Passion). We use just over two-thirds of the prims (although please tell me why it is bad to use your prim allowance, or should it be called prims-we-don't-really-want-you-to-use?). We kept scripts low. We have, normally, 80-90 visitors per 24 hours (meaning at any one time, maximum 8-10 but usually just a couple).

We charge low rent, meaning that we're giving creators (those people that SL is supposed to be about) the way to showcase or sell their work. Many of them are artists, who rarely sell, but they enjoy their presence. That, I also consider a good thing.

All in all, for all the work we do to run it, help the 'tenants', make the place look good, chat to people, help newbies, share the good parts of SL, we earn about 5,000L a month - of which a lot is spent in making it even better.

I don't consider this abuse.

I *do* consider the way we are being treated abusive. I also feel extremely sorry for our landowner, who has been extraordinarly competent, helpful and enthusiastic. So public thanks to Xilinx Undertone who must be tearing his hair.

Will we stay? I really don't know. I can't see our artists and creators swallowing a 67% hike. We can't afford to cover it ourselves. I don't expect our landowner to swallow it either.

Great Christmas gift, Lindens. Hope you'll feel good about sinking Venice.

I have never met Chris inworld even through IM, he just likes to disagree with me in the forums. Like my own personal...something or other.

First. This whole thing stinks. I am going to try to post something new but since i skipped from page 15 to here I have no idea.

Second. For all of you who are calling "jump ship." LL can afford to loose 40% of the openspace sims and not loose a penny in tier at the new prices. You would have to get more than that number of users to drop completely their openspace sims in order to see an effect on LL. (100% of $75 = 60% of $125). IMHO most large companies will merge their openspaces into full sims rather than loose the capital. However it is still possible judging from the unrest presented in this forum that LL is going to free up a lot of servers for their mainland projects. Servers paid for by you and me. So instead of giving my money back how bout taking that server out of the rack and mailing it to me priority post.

Third. All 7 of the openspace sims I have are residential. They easily support 4 residents and a small number of guests as most of the time there is usually only 1-2 avatars present. Server usage times for one of these sims under average use:

total frame time 1.8 ms
-net time 0.2 ms
-sim time physics 0.1 ms
-sim time other 0.5 ms
-agent time 0.2 ms
-images time 0.0 ms
-script time 0.8 ms

This is far less than the total frame time possible on a full sim. A full sim experiences time dialation when the total frame time exceeds 22ms
one quarter of this is 5.5ms
1.8 ms cannot be constituted as abuse IMHO even with additional overheads in running 4 simulatora.

Fourth.
There is NO way that this service is worth $50 more per month to anyone at reduced usability.

Sorry LL this is endgame and you better have your king covered.

Yes my tier will be going up. I didn't do anything to make you look bad. You did it all yourself.

You have yet to answer the question. How will this help the economy?

Basically people are using the prims they have, and there is not a obvious tool to tell some one they are doing something "wrong". And why can't a sim have a script limit built in ...

Either way, I will have to sell my opensim ... which i have spent about 6 months building ... it's just insane how much time i put into this ... and selling it is a decision i'm not looking forward to?

Will there be any recompence in moving to a full sim/mainland ?

If not, i'm gone ... and i'm perty hard core on this.

Note also, I have seen a lot of comments here by people that do not own open sims, those comments are meaningless, since they are not effected by the pricing nor the "abuse".

No way can I see this decision being anything but boneheaded. First, how could LL POSSIBLY not have foreseen the use to which 3750-prim openspace sims would be put? Second, why raise the prim limit to 3750 if their use, and the script use associated with more prims would cause server problems? Third, if there's a problem, why not decrease the number of available prims-- which would solve the server load problem-- instead of increasing the price-- which won't? Fourth, why punish everyone instead of making those who are abusing the openspace sims? And fifth, why change the standing policy of grandfathering price changes? After all, owners of older private islands pay only $195 tier ineast of the $295 current rate?

I got caught in the price drop of islands. Two weeks after paying $1695 for my sim, the price fell to $1000.

I was impressed when LL gave me, by way of compensation, a light sim and three months free tier. Now the price is going up, even though I'm not part of the problem. There are hardly ever more than four avatars on my light sims, and probably 18 hours a day there are no avies. $125 is a lot to pay.

If this unforutnate policy isn't changed, I'll be dumping my two light sims when the price increases. And with them, as much as I love my full sim, it may go too. $295 is a lot of money to pay monthly during a receission that is threatening to turn into a depression.

Why did the prim use on openspaces increase to the double if the meaning was not to use it?

You stated flat out that "Your interest here is to profit from others being harmed."

If that wasn't meant to make me look bad I don't know what it was meant to do.

But really it makes you look bad.

It will help the economy by having people put more money into it, if they want to keep their openspace sims.

Is it me, or is LL having a serious brain malfunction.... O_O or did they have a really bad Retarded moment. I mean, when you Up the prims to a low level sim, wouldn't you like... let me think.... HEWWOOOOO!!! you might want to UP the SERVER!!!!!! Tell me if that is not a RE RE!!!!! Not everyone is abusing the use of these sims......hewwo.... -_-


ok i got my 2Ls in i am good ^.^ bibi

Unbelievable, this is nothing but extortion.

After being hit with the price decrease of sims after purchasing one at 1695 only to see it lose 695 overnight Im being hit with a price increase of over 50% on my recently purchased opensim that I have for LIGHT use.

Why am I having to pay this ? I tell you why.....you saw it become popular and now you want to Extort the maximum out of people who have been duped.

Come check my open space sim....and explain to me why I have to pay this increase??

Ive done nothing wrong and now Im being penalised.

this is no way to run a business.

You just screwed the community.

No wonder we're moving to opensim.

I am not some big land baron. I own, 1 mainland sim, 1 island, and 4 open spaces that are class 4, that equals 700 a month in teirs. So i am being forced to update my open spaces to class 5. That is 300 a month more for me teirs. I rent out my open spaces to help pay for my main island. people live on the open spaces. They like them. Never complain of lag and such. This leads me to believe that this extra 300 a month. which isn't much to most people will put me out of the game. I don't do things in SL to make money and don't. But, I just get by in rl too.

Since i have playing this game in the last 2 years, seems SL likes to take Jabs at the people, yeah I understood the gambling, but then the flooding of mainland where many lost their shirts. Then the VAT thing, and bank closings. I is like fighting up stream for me and others. I am one that never put money in the game. I have slowly built up to what I have and now this is a personal attack in some why (I know it isn't). I really don't know how to cover the extra teir. I never increased what I have unless I can cover it clear. And now all my hard work. Gone if something don't change it.

I know trying to get lindens to change their mind is impossible but this just really makes me upset. That things that i built for fun of others might be gone. Thinks this could of been handled another way personally.

Floatie Hock

I'm with you, Flo.
About all I can say is that I think it is a money grab rather than a remedy.
If it were me trying to remedy the abuse of light usage terms, I would "fine" the abusers, not punish the entire lot for the actions of a few. I don't think it'd be hard to tell who was abusing and who wasn't.
Anyway, I was in the process of looking for a decent sim to get with 2 friends as a nice place to deposit my home. I guess I will be remaining homeless. I left my last home because I found the landlord to be greedy and arrogant.
I agree with Flo, this won't bother the ones who can afford it, the ones who will just pass it down to the people who just want to have fun here, and it'll mess up the ones who just want to have fun here and the ones who are budgeting.
This is really sad and quite petty.

Do we have to give LL more money?, why they don't not request it to IBM?

No it wont. Its extortion for someone like me who uses an openspace next to my main sim for light use. It means simply I will be dropping it.

These were designed as rec areas... I have an open space sim as a rec area, beautifully landscaped and a steady flow of traffic. Script lag on the island is 1.8 seconds.

I think the real issue is how can these rec sims be "rec" if we cant have traffic or allow anyone to enjoy them? NOTHING in the current or previous posts stipulate any specific requirement or limit as to anything but prims. Light use, park or waterways... (I have a park area* was always my understanding.

In the time that I have owned this sim, I've *NEVER* had issue because I have monitored them constantly and ensured that they are not over used, or abused. However due to this price increase I can no longer afford to provide a *RECREATIONAL* area for LL's new comers, and/or residents.

Further more a week after this open space sim was droped in world at the old price, the new price came into effect... and the Linden gods refused to refund, prorate or put towards tier, any amount towards the differance. Even Shopko will refund the differance up to 30 days O.O!

This stupid move will not only devistate your residents but will also slaughter the SL economy more than you already have. I hope you will reconsider this move for the betterment of the SL economy, your residents, and the folks who put the bread on your table month after month despite the flubbs and buggers the grid constantly fling at us...

we`re screwed if this is now called abuse aswell



As we`re going to foot the bil eitherwayl, can we step away from resource controlling and use it as a normal sim aswell now?