Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

In my haste to release my stress ......


So let's summarize..... Use these as oceans.... put an ocean in the middle of no where standing alone....yeah that makes sense


Use them lightly but here...take DOUBLE the prim count.....


Residents are using these twice as heavily as we expected. Still no hard and fast rules. But we sure have a wonderfully nebulous WATCH OUT we are going to be looking now threat.

So..... IF i could get 150 usd for an open space ( a little profit that will be eaten up when the sim is empty waiting for someone) how do i explain to the renter ...Hey Not really sure what is allowed and Linden might come by and take your waterfall down. shrugs....


Yeah Jack. Makes total sense. Clear as mud.

Having paid upfront 275.00 USD each for 2 open space sims, decorating, and building these sims to the total of 3700 prim on one, 2200 pim on the other, and being the sole resident on both has followed the guidelines, and the expectations of behaviour set down by Linden labs for these sims.
A contract was made: specific performance, and strict adherence to the contractual agreement, obligation and letter was performed by me, payment made every month without fail. Linden lab also had, and still has a legal and moral obligation as far as I can tell to perform to that contract as well. Now, I know the clauses that give Linden the out they are taking. What I would like to request is at least a compensation of the initial cost for the sims. 275.00USD for each, or the option of 3 months rent for those of us who have not "abused" the agreement paid for by us. This, of course, would have to be at the Grace of Linden lab, since they hold all the cards at this point.
My sims are Rivendell ElvenDEEP and Rivendell DragonKEEP, both nature sims, in a fantasy setting, please do come visit and verify what I have stated. Since I have not violated either the agreement in performance or intent, I would hope Linden lab would take this opportunity to be fair and equitable to a good consumer. I am sure there are hundreds of others who can show they have also lived up to the agreements made and paid for.
I am specifically inviting, requesting, Jack Linden visit these sims to show him what Second Life means to some. There is a great deal of beauty provided by some, and I hope he takes this opportunity to look at a bit of it. These two sims, are extensions of my dreams. I, and a very special Second Life builder brought them to 3D when we could with the purchase of these two sims. I do not think the small compensation requested is too much to ask at all. In hopes of seeing you there jack .
Thank you
TIGGS Beaumont

I have seen void sims abused ..
People abuse Charity also People ....

I see no reason to Oder 10 and 20 sims at a time who is being impressed ??
The Claim of charities has now spoiled it for the many who wanted to expand ..

My suggestion Let Lindens do their sweeps here

How ever Linden I do know good people who have one Void Sim and are not abusing their prim count usage or the Word or Cause of Charity .. what I am seeing here is a major problem that You (linden ) are trying to solve with many good people having to take the blunt for the Larger role play Land Barrons that get off on counting their sims on a map .. well cudos to you their parties are over ...


Now Charity is a touchy Word for there are many .. but sorry there are also Many not doing a darn thing for the Charity other then buying the sim at half price (( telling the renter half goes to charity .. and not one extra thing is done ))

I could name sims here but why bother .. I know the good Ones that go out of their ways and beyond for the cause The want to be sim groups forgot its about the Charity not your own personal pockets and head trips ... The lagging is awful accros the grid of late some of us can not tp to or from the open space sims .. Trust me 12 people and it curtians ..

Look the game gets exspensive when you buy land .. you have to be in it to win it so to speak .. Stop taking advantage and then getting all ticked when YOUR called out on it ...


Again Lindens i think you should have exceptions for Private owned single void sims ..
After all there is an exception to every rule ..
I do think the charities should be caped and some investigations done to some of these causes .. Sorry .. but its almost like pork barrel spending ....

There are many Good Sims and groups and schoolastic Sims out there that I do not think should be punished .. work this out go after the right and the cause of the promblems dont punish all for some again it is so not the way of today .. its is one of the most unfair ways always has been because in the end .. the problems will stay and keep their phoney charities .. and some of the over used void sims .. while good people have to abanden theirs .. is that fair ???

I am very disappointed in this decision. No way I can afford such an increase and I feel totally ripped off by Linden Labs.

Request to have my two open sims abandoned already submitted.
4051-5414762

I really hate where second life is heading and I am truly sad that I am demotivated more and more every day to make nice things inside second life.

How about some full disclosure from YOU JR? You are also more than welcome to post your bookkeeping here if you feel it is appropriate.

Why is it trolling from me to have a different opinion than yours when I dislike Openspaces, but not trolling from you when you own several?

May I ask how many regions you own, and what type of regions? I mean, I see you posting here and on the blog, and was wondering what kind of special interest you have in this topic.

Why were prim limits doubled earlier this year...?
Why wont LL help nurture the SL economy not bleed it try?

LL you are making things untennable for many by doing this .

Landowners couldnt rent thier full sim parcels because of new Open Space properties i know of many that were converting thier full sims into 4 Open space and now i imagine they will be forced into dumping thier Open Space sims or convert them back..great way to screw everything LL i mean jesus are you completely insane / incompetent?

I genuinely fear for the future at this point :/

Why should those of us who are using them as a static water space with very few prims and next to no scripts have to pay extra because some people want to rent them out?

Why not use those logs of region activity to work out which open spaces are being abused and give them a higher price? Teir values for mainland change based on land holdings, why not set up something similar based on how the open space is used? Then those of us who filled them with water and some static prims to enhance the appearance of our homes dont have to pay for the people who are using them as a business.

Darling Brody

You are making the statement that this will help the economy. But you offer no evidence. Your interest here is to profit from others being harmed. Come on Snowflake, let us know who you are and what sims you own. See how many people come rent from you after your glee at the misfortune of others.

... and a Happy New Year

Grandfathering laws in the State of California are well established.

I expect that LL will ask their legal consul about the impact to their bottom line by suits alleging that the quashing of Grandfathering in already existent rental agreements will prove more expensive than maintaining legal precedence? When and if an open space rental is dropped by the region owner, is the legitimate time to recant any further stabilization of current rental prices... merely making a statement that no grandfathering will be enjoyed, is asking for trouble! I personally will fly to California and add my voice to others seeking recourse through the courts, and others will too.

Second, if there is a rent increase, it is only rationalized by the claimed discovery of certain sim's increased bandwidth usage. But then the blog goes on to say, that not only will more money be charged for that increase, but that LL will take measures to reduce or restrict said 'extra' usage 'in addition'?! A BETTER alternative is to charge for actual bandwidth usage, not to make blanket and sweeping claims. Charge people a LOW base fee and then like any California utility, calculate the amount of load a particular sim has on the system as a whole, or within its processor cluster. Establish a standard guideline of usage and rates, and then we will pay for more megabytes of bandwidth per month. Charging everyone an increase because 'some' are stressing the system, is wrong.

Again, that sort of policy has been struck down many times in California courts. For instance employers cannot extort from all employees partial restitution of bulk sums stolen by one or more employees, ...that is simply illegal. California laws have traditionally supported victim claims when such predatory pricing guidelines are pressed. LL will be forced in court to show how a specific user, over used a publicly posted bandwidth... it will NOT be acceptable to merely say, "all users are a single class, some users are exceeding our internal bandwidth thresholds, and thus all users will now pay".

Unlike $2.00 intellectual property violations, people will fly in and petition from other courts for this one...

LL is overstepping its authentic possession of control over this monopoly market. IF we could take all our prim descriptions, scripts, textures, etc... and step over to another server... then fine, they might get away with this... but as a monopoly service that has us ALL trapped in a 'use or lose' situation... I believe the courts will be very lenient in their decisions, for the victims of this effort to extort excessive fees from the entire open space rental base!

Caution to LL!

Although I think the price change sucks and this could be handled in a more appropriate way, I applaud LL for doing SOMETHING about the problem of people taking up residence, putting up businesses, etc. on openspace sims. This is one of the things that has been a sore spot with me, since I do have 3 full sims, and can't sell the land on them because of the influx of these openspace sims trashing the competitive prices I have on my land. It's supply and demand people, and when you flood the market with cheap sims, and allow them to be used for purposes that they were not intended for, something has to be done to clean it up. It was also not supposed to happen that non-estate owners were able to purchase openspace sims. They were to be purchased by current estate owners only.

Linden created the problem of the SL economy by lowering the prices for both the full sims and the openspace sims. They neglected to enforce the guidelines on the openspace sims and it has caused a total crash of the real estate economy in SL. They do not allow private estate owners equal competition with Linden land, and with the influx of all of the cheap openspace sims, something that was inevitable with the price drop, the crash was totally predictable. Only a moron could not see it. Unfortunately, the crash was totally avoidable. In an effort to increase their own cash flow, they succeeded in alienating their biggest monetary supporters.

I just hope that this fix is not too little, too late. IMHO, it should not have to have come to this, but a fix is definitely in order. Something needed to be done to reign in all of the lopsided competition. Now there are just 1 or 2 more things that have to be fixed. First of which being the inequality of estate vs. Linden sim tier. But we can save that for the next hurdle.

Obviously I do not like Openspaces and am glad to see that LL is doing something about them finally.

As for several folks calling for "full disclosure" from me do we need to go back to the community standards? Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience.

People act like I am doing something unethical by having a differing opinion than the overwhelming majority. I have never been a sheep and will continue to express my own opinions here, whether they are popular or not.

The adfarmer does what she does best.

Read between the lines: For all of the "Open sim now being forced to be used as they were intended for" fanbois. The first part of the announcement was about raising fees. With dates, timeslines etc. Then some vague talk about enforcing the OpenSim usage guidelines ("Lastly we will begin to proactively discuss overloaded Openspaces with their owners.".

I absolutely promise you Linen Lab will collect their $125 dollars in January from all opensim owners. I also guarantee you that the usage of opensims will not be changed in any fashion whatsoever.

.

I asked you for full disclosure too, but instead you respond with the assumption that I am here to wish harm on others for profit. That is a very serious accusation and I suggest YOU better have some evidence, other than just the simple fact that I disagree with you so you have decided to bully me.

I am using my open spaces properly (I am only using only ~500 of the 3750 of the available prims in the open space, and very very few active scripts running in each — average 0.1ms of scripts running at any one time in either of them) and this is a bit extreme for those who have purchased recently and are using them properly.

The people who are subletting Open Spaces and overusing them should be the ones who get fined and punished for this.

What should be done:
-Add a simple QA metric to Open Space sims that collects simulator useage data, those with simulator load averages that are higher than a publicized norm can be warned.

-If they do not comply with adjusting their simulator load averages, then their tier fees will go up.

-Those who have responsible simulator load averages can keep the original monthly pricing.

Applying this kind of pricing to all Second Life residents will destroy many businesses who are legitimately and responsibly using the resources of the SL grid. Great Open Space sim expanses such as SL New England will see their doors shutter.

Many of SL’s businesses only operate to break even on tier costs; this will put many of them over the edge. Please rethink this strategy, as the responsible users and content creators are keeping this thing going.

This will cause the mass selling and abandonment of property in SL. A lot of the Open Space owners that are taking advantage of the current pricing will definitely leave, which is a good thing, but more importantly, many of the good responsible companies that showcase SL will leave too.

No one has broken CS or the TOS by asking you to be honest and up front about your interest here.

And no it isn't unethical to have a differing opinion. But hiding who you are and what your business is when you are making such statements is somewhat dirty. If you stand behind your opinions, surely you will want to let us know which rental operation you are associated with. Unless you think your opinion will cost you customers?

I know I can't afford an additional $200 a month for the sims i just split into 4 opens spaces so I SUGGEST we get free option to return them to the 1 sim, Had I known about this 2 weeks ago I would have never done that in the first place. And mine were keeping within scripting guidelines.

Bet alot of people will either be abandoning or converting them back to full sims. ... Because I seriously doubt any of the people owning them will keep them.

LL must be using eBay's business plan. Ebay has shot themselves in the foot so many times, it's not even funny. And who do they continue to harm? the people who pay their fees/bills. Same here with LL.. it's sad to see, and really hurts in the ole pocketbook. I'll have to let my OS go with this humongous price increase. It smacks of bait and switch tactics. Lure them in with low prices, then switch in mid stream to unbearable ones. ... shaking my head over this one...

I think you hit the nail right on the head Anne...4 openspace sims on a CPU as compared to 1 full sim on a CPU...same prim counts on both CPUs...hence that 4 sim CPU should be capable of doing the same job as a full sim CPU with traffic and congestion!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you see where this is going JACK ???????????????
At a time when Global economic turmoil abounds you people at LL decide to increase a price on something many of us can barely afford right now!!!!
Its funny...the pricing on servers has taken a dramatic plunge the past few years while the performance on them has increased so you cant tell us its anything to do with equipment costs...

i think it's mentioned before, but don't have the time to read 5 pages
in my opinion it would be better to warn the owners for overloading, as you did with this message:

when they're not responding, switch the openspace to a normal sim.
You have to pay for what you want.

A higher price isn't completely fair to the owners who respect the meaning of the openspace.

BTW... keep in mind most europian simowners already have a disadvantige for prices on SL... the VAT makes investments like islands/sims 20 % more expensive than US residents.
Few people can afford sims, with this even fewer will.

Now we know why LL tolerates so many bots: bots don't complain about abuse.

I am who I am. I don't hide any of my opinions or who I am.
All I have are your posts and your glee at the misfortune of others. Pretty convincing to me.

Tell us, how will this help the economy as a whole? It won't unless you are someone with rental sims who stands to recoup some renters.

I think it is dirty for you to come to the forums and accuse me of taking glee in other people's misery because I feel this will be helpful to the SL economy in the long run.

You stated flat out that "Your interest here is to profit from others being harmed".

That is a pretty strong statement of personal attack for you to make with no evidence.

So let's have your evidence.

I agree, It seems Linden Labs wants its business destroyed. Could it be because IBM can do it cheaper, more efficiently and without the Mafia tactics employed just a couple hours ago?