Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

Another term might be 'Sucker Punch". Glad I'm so slow to take things up, I've missed gambling, banks, CSI, voice, Bay City, Nautlilus and now open space sims. whew..dodged another bullet.

I'm not one to normally "this" a post... but yes, this. It seems like this was, um, not at all the best solution or implementation. Please take a second look at this policy, and consider possible options.

the substitute is the more expensive hosting package hey.
ll temporarily decreased the setup and monthly charges for an OS, got thousands of people to invest and commit to the monthly tier obligation, then turned around and substituted the initial offering with something else entirely.
it is beyond an obvious bait and switch.

Natually, this is upsetting state of affairs, as some people have purchased these open space SIMs, and actually use them for light use, as intended. As of yet, no refund of purchase price has been offered, etc... Here is an idea.

Consider actually breaking out two classes of open space SIMs with two different tiers!! The original tier could apply to all existing open space sims, provided they are used per certain guidelines. I think a private home, is appropriate use; whereas businesses and clubs are not.

Next, define the class 5 open space SIM, as the higher tier, you wish to charge, and allow a higher level of use for that cost. Lindens can focus their service improvements only on the class 5 SIMs, and meanwhile police or crack down on inappropriate use of the basic SIMs.

This way, existing owners, especially ones who purchased in good faith, and use the SIMs as intended, will not be penalized. Meanwhile you can focus your upcharges and service upgrades on the people who need them.

All the best.

PS: Lindens, please do not disenfranchise thousands of SL residents, we need to keep this world happening though tough times and competing platforms.

All the best.

Danze

It's pretty easy (and i think i even posted it before):

- Stop to sell the product TODAY;
- Split the current OP by half (2 per core instead of 4 per core);
- Write down the new rules for the NEW customers;
- Start to sell the product again.

You made the mistake (wrong plan), you'll pay. Is it too fair for you?

Knock yourself out - get a laywer and sue because they're giving you two months notice that they're raising prices.

Sorry, I won't tell you if I have anything good. That's in the Second Life rulebook. You buy it on MY terms, sort of like what Linden Lab does. I learned it from them.

As far as the average network load per openspace being 50% more used than expected - says who? Linden Lab? They have a clear reason to be biased in what they communicate to residents - they make more money. Therefore the statistics are dubious.

Further, by properly planning and throttling the open space servers as necessary - they could have even 'blacked out' a server if it was too much load - they could have avoided this whole thing. They didn't. People used as much as they could - which is what people always do.

I'm sorry, but I've never believed shouting 'the customer is wrong' is a good way to run a business, especially when you could have avoided the customer doing something wrong. From your comments, your opinion seems to be the polar opposite. No skin off my nose. But please don't come with a violin to play me a concerto titled, "Poor Linden Lab Didn't Plan Well So People Need To Get Screwed'.

I'd rather have a cheeseburger. K,thnx,Bye.

No, no, but the recurring costs might go up 66%.

Ok.. So, finally, an actual bait and switch but instead of trying to get you to take a lesser product for the same price, they give you something twice as powerful for the same price?


edit: and, again, in case y'all missed it in your rush to get your pitchforks: yes, this does indeed suck for people who use them as intended.

Again? Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that exists an ENTRY PRICE? I know it is legal about the fees, but if i purchased an openspace for $250, i will loose those $250 because they changed the agrement.

This policy goes against the very nature of SL.

The entire history of SL has been users trying to squeeze every ounce of creativity, use, and value out of SL's often limited tools. To implement any policy or feature without having this in mind is to be completely oblivious about the basic nature of SL.

So, we have two choices:

1) There is a organizational-wide naivete about what Second Life is, and how its customers use SL. They didn't foresee people trying to squeeze out every last ounce of usability out of openspaces when they reduced price, and increased prims, despite users having trieds to maximize the use of every other feature and tool being strong evidence for them doing so with openspaces.

2) The real reason for this new policy is not openspace resource use. The real reason is actually that openspaces have been such a successful product that they have depressed the value of LL's other products- especially mainland, which is currently less than L$3 per meter.

Given LL's past performance, one can see either 1 or 2 being legitimate options.

Uh.. The new prices don't start until January 1st. They're raising the price of this service in two months. They're not changing the prices now. I don't know how to say it any simpler than that..

can I get a bailout?

AD

I don't post in the forums that much, because I don't like getting into a lot of the mudslinging that goes on, but this announcement just begged a response. This may not be a bait and switch in the legal sense, but it does smack of a prior hidden agenda. The Lindens, saying things are so much better performance-wise, increase the prims available on an open space sim so as to make them almost irresistible, and then, without so much as a warning that openspace sim overuse is happening on a wide scale, raise the prices a whopping two-thirds. Where is the open and transparent communication here?

Why would anyone pay for approximately 1/2 the tier of a full sim and get the prims of a 1/4 sim? If there are issues with overloaded openspace sims, then why aren't they being dealt with? I am sure tickets are being put in for them, as a previous poster mentioned. The issue is not being dealt with, the symptoms are not being treated. The Lindens seem to be using a sledge hammer for an issue that requires a scalpel.

If some of this is disjointed, my apologies. I am simply flabbergasted that in a worldwide economy that keeps tailspinning, the Lindens are putting on their rose-colored glasses (or maybe they are blinders) and raising fees an exhorbitant amount on ANYTHING. If they had come out with an announcement that they were freezing tier and fees for 6 months to acknowledge the economic downturn and include a warning about overuse of openspace sims perhaps leading to an increase, that would have been a lot more open and tranparent. Thanks for this wonderful holiday gift.

That line of thought has merit. It could be false, but we-who-don't-work-there don't know.

No, they will resolve the problem THEY introduced, i never asked to have more than what i've paied for: 3750 prims. I don't won't more, i don't want less... if you wanna me to pay more, i would say: i do not agree with the new conditions, so gimme my money back and i can live happy.
And also, if you gonna increase the fees by 66%, does it would limit the bandwidth? ...i mean the problem will remains (because you will continue to have 16 OP on a machine) but i will pay more.. to have the same (supposed) problems?! This is completely out of logic.

if LL would be in germany it would be gone after this. dunno about united states laws. it´s clearly breaking of a contract and fraud, unless they´d offer full refund of the setup fee

George W. Bush will send you a money order for a few billion dollars once you give work to a few of his buds.

HERes something that I dont see ANYONE making reference too, and something theb Lindens have probably not even considered.... Supply and demand....

This announcement, has just made existing openspace sims woth absolutely nothing....They arent worth crapping on in the woods. In the next 60 days, the number of openspace and full sims that will hit the market will be a factor of 100 times the normal land market.....at least....open space sims will fall into the "buy my class 5 full sim for 1/4 the LL price, and get my 4 open spaces for free, because you cant use them anyway".

This just defies all logic...it is total and utter commercial murder, and very possibly suicide for SL with the huge number of communities that have just been made totally unviable. Sailing sims...using their sims for the right purpose....roleplay sims like gorean panther sims....again used for the right purpose (with peaks of high activity at times, but negligible in the grand scheme of things).....multi racecombat regions where emphasis is on landscape and "open spaces" as the very name implies.

These regions, supplied to communities like this, are supplied at the expense of REAL people by reaching into their own pocket. Without those comunities... that activity dies...stone dead...that flows on to a huge range of supporting comercial ventures, many of which RELY on this community to provide a very real income. The community inspires the creativity, and the creativity inspires the community....together, both thrive...remove one, and the other withers and dies. Make the comunities unviable, when they are totally in compliance with the initial LL imposed guidelines, and a MASSIVE commercial impact flows out to the SL world in general, with all these creative people suddenly finding SL to be financially unviable and leaving.....

opensimulator.org, anyone? I am sure the MS and IBM injection to that organistaion, along with LLs self destructive profiteering will ensure the rapid and healthy growth of some REAL competition.

Many years ago I played a game that I loved so much I thought I'd play it forever.... ok... maybe not forever but a long damn time. Well that game turned bad and I left. I invested thousands of dollars over the years in that game.

Then I discovered SL and instantly fell in love with it. Yeah ok.... I don't like lag and crashes.... which by the way happened long before open sims were avaiable..... but who's counting?.....

Anyway, a few days ago I was thinking about all the things I created in SL and thought, "I wonder when this fun will end?" Well.... I think it's the beginning of the end.

I understand that the "fine print" is not being followed to the letter. In those cases GO AFTER THE ABUSERS!!!! To punish everyone for the few is just plain wrong. I myself run 2 open sims. One that I live on and the other I built a nice place to have fun on. I have to discuss with my partners what to do next. It could mean shut them down. Who knows.

Jack, I know your job is tough but this is not a good idea and I for one don't support you on this.

You have EXACTLY the same POTENTIAL for scripts in 15,000 prims on a full sim as you do 15,000 prims on open sims now don't you?

Look up "LLC"

That money is already gone - they're not going to retroactively charge you a higher startup price.

If you can't continue to make tier payments on your openspace, I'm sorry but please don't tell me you thought that the prices were locked in forever. Prices go up. Prices go down. They have already this year and will again starting January 1st.

I will not berate this decision, nor the bearers of bad news. What I will say is this: Linden Labs is its own worst enemy, especially when it comes to holding the trust of their community.

Bad linden lab. very very bad