Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

YOU failed to plan it out.

YOU dont have some body smart enuf that there gonna find out how to limit how is open space used (scripts, etc.)? (Heres a tip: Go to local HIGH SCHOOL and some body is gonna tell u how can u do it.)

YOU think its gonna be more easy to extort EVERY body with obscene price jump and not worry only for the ppl that abuse it?

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Ok i donno ur telling truth here. How its gonna ease the load on the servers to charge more money? I think that its the TRUTH that u like to run estate owners out of business and heres how are u gonna do it. I think its stupid business move.

I bot open space in GOOD FAITH and i use it just as its describe to use. Now u tell me im gonna pay extortion to u or lose what did i pay for open space sim?

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Hmmmmmmm.....Whats funny smelling? Smells like class action LAW SUIT.

It discourages people from renting them out by making them cost more then a full sim per sqm. That is the abuse LL is talking about, they were never intended to be used like that.

Is coming up with an alternative. Something reasonable. Something midrange. What casual users can afford a whole sim? Mainland is awful, full estates are too expensive and the alternative is getting smashed. Why don't you come up with an alternative that WORKS for people instead of penalizing them out of the market?

It doesn't take a genius to understand that THIS is what the market wants. Most businesses put a focus on the needs and desires of their customers. Instead of fulfilling the need and reaping the financial rewards, you are making it harder to do business with you.

If Linden Lab is unable to grasp the concept of the marketplace, they are doomed. Has 'M' had a look at this proposal?

I'm sorry but residential use of these sims is not the problem. Most res sims, don't have a lot of avi's running around, in the first place. So where's the load?

The abusers should be smacked, I agree, but saying residential use is the whole reason for doing this is complete trash. There is no tangible evidence presented to support that position.

You gotta be kidding. They did *what*?

That's just daft. That's not how you treat customers. I bet you wouldn't do that to Anshe Chung.

Ok. Let's recap shall we? First you reduce the cost of a Sim from $1795 USD to $1000 USD. While that might have been good news to people who had yet to buy a sim - did anyone think of the flip side? That you also just reduced the investment of people that have been paying good money all along by 45 percent and this was done without ANY warning to current estate owners.

Now you offer open space sims available to people, make it look like a fantastic deal and then after everyone has gone out and bought them you want to increase the tier. Leaving those of us that have them virtually STUCK with them as no-one will want them.

You say that there is one regular sim per cpu and 4 open sims per cpu...well in both instances that is a total of 15,000 prims. How can you possibly then in the same breath state there is too much content.

You can have EXACTLY the same amount of content on one full sim as you have on four open sims. If the number of avatars is the problem then restrict the number of avatars permitted on open sims rather then screwing us again.

And to top it all off you do this when the world is on the verge of a recession?? Are you kidding me? You should be lowering the cost rather then raising it to entice those of us that are barely hanging on to STAY.

Here is a solution for you. As you have offered sim owners no warning and no compensation and we are forced to live with your new rules then offer to buy BACK all the land you tempted us into buying and owning for the amount we paid for it and then see what you are left with. That will show you in reality how we all feel about your "changes" .

Thinking at it... is the performance the problem here? ...if so they should erase the whole laggy mainland, but i never seen someone taking care of it. Probably ppl realized that 90% of SIMs are almost desert, so ppl stopped to add regular SIMs in favour of OPs, because they were more than enough for their puporses, after six months LL realized the drop of fees because of this and then decided it wouldn't have worked (for theis business), so decided to change the route.. and i can say this is perfect HONEST (they are making business, it is a profit company), what is not honest is to catch the ppl in the "middle": they entered with some conditions, they must accept the new ones or decide to loose the entry price.. if it were just for the price increase i wouldn't "moan", as i say it is a business, they are entiteled to change their plans, but remaining in the *leaglity*.

They don't do anything to Anshe Chung except kiss her ass when she gives them good publicity and let her get smacked around with giant penises when she pisses off the mob more than usual.

I'm laggy, said the guest at the open space sim to the owner.

No worries, said the host. I pay increased tier now!

How does that help me? asked the laggy bugger.

It doesn't.

How can paying more tier improve the experience? You are not putting them on new hardware. You are not putting fewer then 16 on a server now. Will you give them more then the pathetic 128mb ram each? Will you continue to offer 3750 prims and 100 avs when you #()$*$ KNOW it cant run that?

How many will you stack when you get the next class of gear? Which is very overdue. 32 OS sims per server?...and raise the price?

It's your own design that is at fault not the people using them as you DESIGNED THEM.

Who set the caps at 100 avs? you did you did

Who set the objects at 3750? you you and you!

The whole spin of "we had no idea!" is a pathetic joke. If you are really that clued out you should get off the team and go do something where your ignorance will cause less harm.

Also, look up recession when you have spare time.

I've survived many of LL's ridiculous decisions, but this one will be the last. No one is going to want to rent off me at a 66% increase, hence, there is no way that anyone will be able to cover the $US125 a month tier. The RL economy is tanking and people are abandoning SL at a furious rate. GET A CLUE PEOPLE. I'll be fine, I have a day job, the worst case is I'll just leave SL, but this will kill SL, and Linden Labs. LL should be lowering the tier on land, in order to survive the global recession, not to mention the economic depression that has beseiged SL.

So my land business is screwed, oh well, I'll survive. Lindens Labs will not.

Wow.. Page one looked promising but crowds can quickly turn to mobs, I guess.

I just sorta skimmed thru them and saw 'petition' a few times. Was class action also mentioned or are people still working up to it?? For those that are now vowing to leave, can I have your stuff?


Jack, I understand what you're saying but this really does seem to punish the people who bought Openspace sims and used them as-intended. I have no solution to suggest but it's sad that places that used them correctly may have to now dump them..

Also, and I expect the crowd to glare and growl at this question but, is this increase enough? Openspace tier with the new price formula is still under 1/2 a full private sim. If you're discouraging what I assume is mostly evil land barons, it's still a win for them, even though they have to charge more now.

And speaking of Openspace regions, there are some around Nautilus that have been giving many, many people expired_region_handoff's and such, ever since the island surfaced. This has been reported here in the forums many (many, many) times but how do we best lure a grid monkey to come over and give it a poke?

Last, data is always nice to see. Any chance you've got graphs and charts and stuff on performance metrics or anything like that you can share?

Bait and Switch IS Illegal in ALL 50 States............

So, I rent an openspace sim for my house....it sees little traffic, but is perfect for my island lair. The lag is fine, as there is, as I said, little traffic. I paid a lot of lindens for the right to rent.

If you want to punish the people who are abusing openspace sims, do so. Don't punish *everyone* who has one. You have to tools to know who is causing the trouble, go after them. Doing it this way only looks lazy and greedy.

For all those Idiots applauding LL for doing this, to redress the balance of those 'abusing' something that was NOT defined as abuse beforehand.. for your now new found happiness, you are collectively paying 6,000USD for a server that runs 16 openspaces, and 2,000 USD a month tier.... well done you

Bet you will all pat yourselves on the back, when LL use Class 6 servers LOL.... I predict, you will all be paying around 10,000 USD for a shared server and over 3,300 USD to look out across sea.... bet you can't wait.

Pull the plug.... openspaces turn to Vapourware, like the rest of it....

Oh and for any mathemeticians out there... 70,000 users logged.... charging more for OpenSapces improves lag how? Has anyone actually taken a frozen moment in time, from the SL map maybe and actually counted the actual users online, give or take a few thousand... whenever I look about the map.. I see sprinklings of people here and there... huge amount of empty sims.... How many sims are there? Divided by the number of users logged in.... makes how many per sim average? Does anyone actually believe the stats LL give out? I mean 11 million accounts LOL.. get real... For everyone who has no alts, there are 3 others with at least 5 each.. and those are the live accounts, not the 'one day wonders'...

Why penalize everyone for overuse when its a few resource hogs. If Linden Labs was TRULY concerned about "User Experience" then maybe they should fix the bugs that have been haunting Second Life for eons rather than treating residents like we are endless supplies of revenue for things that are broken.

I disagree with this policy entirely and would only support it if Linden Labs would actually "Support" something other than my credit card.

For the amounts many of us already pay we get constant promises and little done. As an owner of an open space sim the performance even with nothing on it has never been decent and yet nothing was ever done to remedy the problem so rest assured after January you can add this one back and another example of something broken in Second Life.

will LL be offering a scenery or void sim conversion option for existing owners, so openspace owners who cant afford the extra tier but have been using the openspaces for water, snowfields, etc as ll intended can take a prim cut and more rules rather then just having to give them up? Perhaps even with a price cut..
I think calling the sims "openspace" made people hope you were meeting a huge market demand- for the same server performance and price as islands per prim on more "land". This is somethign to think about, maybe "wide land", "scenery land", and "Residential land" sim options instead of just opensim, with varying prices, might be popular?

I think what infuriates me more about all this is isn’t about the people who are using the OS as homes, why make it their fault for misinformation and Misuse? They, in the most part, are casual/light users, they rarely have 2 maybe 4 people on their OS, and using way under the 3750 prims that is given… this is about the ones that decided to run a clubs, or full fledged “SIM” type venues, KNOWING the limitations of the OS. It’s about the people who rented these sims to those people not telling them the limitations…. This is about the people who are abusing the prim limits.

Yes abusing the prim limits. On 6/12 I put in a ticket asking how the hell did a Openspce sim get the use of 7500+ prims, and I was told it was an abuse, and that the Concierge could not discuss it. This is weeks after the roll out of the land store… where the problem would have been more manageable.

We know human nature of someone who is doing something wrong, abusing a system. The more people they can get to do it, the safer they feel. If someone is abusing a bug, then they should have lost their sim. Easy solution. If the OS could not accommodate the 3750 prims that it was advertised to accommodate then someone in LL should have got fried. WHY punish the people who are using the OS within the boundaries that were set?

Is this going to hurt Avilion? No Avilion is all on Full Sims… Is it going to piss off a lot of people who are now living on OS, who are staying within the guidelines set by Lindens?YES. Are you going to get the $125/mo, think not guys

Many of these people scrape to make the tier now, they are not business people, they are regular working Joes that are trying to live a fantasy life in SL. They are the ones paying your bills. Actually bringing in money in the toon of their tiers, not like the majority of people who are just here for the "Free clothes".

Marketing point of view (you all do have Marketing people right?)… $75/mo was acceptable, it’s “Under $100” ……. $125 OMG OVER $100 !!! NO WAY!! (see there is a reason retail stores mark things $49.95)

next Marketing point "OMG You’re increasing it $50 !!" This is a tank of gas, a bag or 2 of groceries.

With the Economy like it is you’re lucky that a lot of these people have not already pulled out, why are you kicked them out of the door now? Makes no sense.

omfg, when did George Bush Jr take over LL????? Clearly, someone involved in the decision-making process either has his head up his ass about how this is going to negatively affect a huge number of contributors to the economy in SL or someone just doesn't care and knows we are becoming accustomed to bending over without even a drop of lube. I live on an open sim alone with a few visitors from time to time so that I have a place of privacy and space to build and create without interference from newbies, rigid rules from an inworld rental company and so that I can be in an environment that is pleasing to me and reflective of myself. I work inside SL, LIVE inside SL and am a regular contributor to the SL economy and productive member of the virtual society within. Does this seem to matter to anyone? I think not. I do have three options. I can either make a lame protest by abandoning my sim, which of course, will not matter to a soul or I can go ballistic on forums to blow steam, showing LL that I'm really unhappy about this but knowing all the while that the lack of consumer satisfaction in SL is of no concern. My third option is to haul my ass on up into that fricken hamster wheel and continue to absorb this gross insult to my finances, my belief in LL and in the nature of Big Brother all in one fell swoop. Gosh, sounds just like the American way. Thanks, Jack.

No Grandfathering!.

This is a significant change in policy. Previous SIM pricing changes were always grandfathered to protect the investments of people who purchased land with an expectation of price!!. Performance of the Open Space SIMs was never guaranteed. That was spelled out clearly in the documentation for them. If you purchased an OpenSpace and believed it would perform at a high level, you made a mistake.

I, as a consume that purchased one exactly for the Use case that LL intended, very light dute 4-8 Avatars (usually 2-3) am now having my home destroyed.

I have no problem with LL changing SIM pricing policy going forward, but to ruin the cost models of people on a whim sucks as product policy!

Please consider some kind of grandfather clause. You will seriously drive down your leased island count with this change. Perhaps the intent is to drive people to mainland.

And for the people chanting Bait & Switch, read up on what the damn phrase means, please.

They're giving you two months notice of a service price increase. There's nothing even close to Bait & Switch here.

bait and switch yet again.
ll you disgust me.
when an alternate grid becomes viable i (and many others i assume) are going to dump you in droves.

-screwed for the last time

This is cause for a lawsuit .. we purchased the open space sims with full knowledge that we could change parcel ownership .. Disallowing that now after we purchased so many and subdivided them .. we are stuck with them .. I don't need 18 open space sims for myself. What do you want me to do with them Jack ???

You have totally mismanaged land in SL since the start Jack. You have screwed those of us that have purchased sims to provide land to newcomers and others who don't like the mainland. Now you want us to take another hit.

Where does it end Jack ? Many of us are responsible for bringing new users to the grid. I regret the day I came here. This absolutely sucks !

MQ

Ok,, This just mak eme realised that trying to make a busines in SL its been a terrible mistake, its no way that LL can think in any of us that have spend thousands of dollars in this game thinking that it will be a way to make some money back from them.
Instead of this we simple keep loosing more and more, which let us no other way to sale or simple abandon the land.
THIS IST SIMPLE A TERRIBLE ABUSE FROM LL \.
and i have no words to express my feeling towards LL and the loss of all my money .

'hi, come buy this sim for this low low price for this low amount/mo'

''hi, i have increased your costs 50%, pay up or ill take the sim back, ta '

BAIT AND SWITCH

I can't say that I've ever been so utterly disappointed in LL.

So, I don’t use all of the prims available to me. I live on my OS sim with one other person…and you’re increasing my tier? Tell me where that is fair! I’m one of those who owns a full sim and an OS sim….so now you’re penalizing me for using the sim AS YOU INTENDED??
Suddenly, other virtual worlds are starting to look more and more attractive.