Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden

As a business man I have maintained an ongoing understanding of some of the moves you have made. I have adapted and continued to support SL. This however is really hitting below the belt. you change the policy on OS sim and RAISE the prim limit. This in turn makes them the solution of choice for most all renters since then as it provides them with much more privacy and separation between them and their neighbors affording added privacy. As a result sim owners were forced to convert full sims to open space sims simply because you couldn't give a parcel away on a regular sim. Now after so many of made this conversion because of the changes that YOU forced on us you are now going to raise the fees by more profit then any of us make on them, you are going to ram it through in 2 months, and you are not going to compensate the people who were forced to change because of what YOU did?

This is a very poor way to do business with people that have been with you for years. Please don't spout that dribble about your catch 22 phrase that these were never intended to be other then light use sims. You raise the prim limits and drop the prices? What did you expect the end consumer was going to demand? You all could not possibly not have seen the ramifications of that move? Do you really expect any of us to believe that? You caused this not us and now you are expecting us to take a financial bath when you ram this through without so much as any consideration. If anyone worked for me treated a customer in this manner I would fire them before their feet hit the floor again.

At the very least you should allow the same time period for those that converted their sims to accommodate your last changes to change them back at no charge.

While I agree that LL need to crack down on abusers of openspace sims, I truly believe it is unfair that they intend to use a blanket policy to penalize everyone including those users who have always used openspace sims responsibly.

How about tracking down the offenders LL and only penalizing those users.

Back when LL dropped the acquistion prices of land...a lot of folks celebrated...without realizing what the repercussions would be...that the value of land that folks already owned, would be severely devalued. Now months later...we see the results of their short-sightedness...mainland prices are well under L$3/sq meter, and dropping daily. People that spent a large amount of money to acquire their land, and knew that it had a VALUE...can't know that anymore. As an example...the mainland sim I own, had a value (based on the average price for mainland land in search) of around $2400. If I were to sell it today, I could recover perhaps $600 for it.

LL doesn't seem to see this...because they are putting mainland parcels on auction for L$4/sq meter...and people are staying away in droves...since they can go and purchase parcels for under L$2.5/sq meter on the land search right now.

This new issue...where LL claims that they have to make this price increase, to improve infrastructure to support those that are overtaxing openspace sims...and then turning around and saying that they will be talking with estate owners to enforce the original use of the openspace sims?...why are you charging more money if you are going to enforce the original use...and consumption of server resources...that the open space sims were created to consume in the first place. To me this looks as if they are charging more to allow the added and unforeseen impact of the open space sims...while forcing residents to reduce that very same impact....Either charge more, and leave the open space sims as they are...or keep the price the same...and reduce the resource impact you are concerned about..but don't do both...that is double dipping...charging more for less...

AND...LL could have resolved this simply and easily when they set the openspace sim program up in the first place, and should still be able to do so...it's called THROTTLING...if openspace sims are created to support only open ocean with a couple thousand prims on it...then dont just limit the number of prims at the processor level...throttle the number of simultanous active scripts that can run on an openspace sim...and the number of residents that can enter it...you dont seem to have any issues doing this on mainland sims.

I think it's completely unfair and unreasonable that residential open sim "owners" (for example, ONLY me and my partner living on our sim) would be charged the same land tiers as those who are operating businesses, clubs, etc. on their open sims.

While I'm at it, I will mention that I think it's totally inconceivable that premium paying members are tossed offline while the camper bots and non-premium paying members sit comfortably with no issues before them. This is not to group the two together as equals..just to make a point that when I pay the premium fee I expect to have the most premium service.

This is ridiculous and I wonder if there will be an end to the money we are expected to pay to be a resident of SL.

Edu users are supposed to use them for the same things -- scenic space, oceans, and the like. Edu users buy regular sims for building any "serious" content, just like anybody else. As with many other vendors for all sort of products, Linden Lab is kind enough to offer an academic discount for non-profit educational institutions.

Nothing out of the ordinary with that.

THAT was unexpected. The increase in prims and the lifting on the "pack of four connected" restriction seemed like a pretty clear indication that LL was trying to make land more available to the average user before being steamrolled by alternate grids, as does the availability of mainland. They were putting the squeeze on the estate rental business, but it made sense; land became less and less valuable as more options for alternate hosting became available.
This, however, makes little sense, and is little but a sucker-punch to estate owners who invested in openspaces, bait-and-switching them to pony up the setup cost, and then forcing them to abandon the sims.
LL: If too-heavy use truly is the reason, I urge and plead you to impose resource restrictions rather than raising the price. Many, many residents bought into the openspace idea with good intentions, and could easily live with pretty much any "light use" limitation being enforced.

First of all, my thoughts were not along the lines of an expectation of this sort of acute price-hike for the open-space sims. Indeed, given that the economy on a world wide scale is taking the negative turn it is, I would have thought an alleviation in order, to stimulate sales the more.

You Lindens report that many of these open spaces are being over used. Please, explain to me then, why increase prim limits? Seems that you’re creating a situation by which your servers are under more stress. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but logically, this kind of move is taken when servers can handle such an increase in data load. Too much traffic? Why not lower the caps on these sims?

In my opinion, raising the prices of ordering said open spaces, and the raise in the tier fees can only have negative results, and not the ones you hope for. People who were considering ordering them for the ’light use’ you describe, will not buy because they will now be too expensive. People who have open spaces may well turn them in, not wishing to pay such a fee for them every single month. For many people, this is a week’s income, you realize. People who keep the open spaces they have, I expect, would want to get the most of them, and may not feel a full sim sized stretch of beach is a proper investment…

All I can say is, I feel that this is not the most intelligent of decisions. I have several friends with open space sims. Will they keep them? I can’t be sure. Would I buy an open space at this price? Nope. At the price they currently are, I would, but with this kind of increase in fees allegedly coming January 1st, I will not.

I would definitely recommend this price change policy be cancelled. They were doing very well at the prices you were, and currently are, selling them at. If the traffic is too much, limit the caps. If the prims are too much, limit them, not raise them. This is logical, no? This move, as described in the blog post, will lose Linden Labs much more money than it will gain.

They can't do this, because llGetPos() returning <300,300,20> would freak out SO many scripts.

I suggested a year or so ago that they add an llGetRegionBounds() call (or equivalent) so that people can at least PREPARE for such a change, so by the time they're ready to release oversized sims they could do it.

Until they do that, AND give people several months on Beta Grid to deal with the inevitable breakages, there's no way they could do this.

The *could* go back to the original model of only allowing people to have OpenSpace sims in groups of four *AND* also make sure that all four were always on the same server, and treat that as a 4x sized sim.

Is there a compnay out there that has worse decision making than LL?? I can't think of one off hand. Horrible way to handle the situation and someone at LL should be fired for being such an idiot to even think this one up!! Why is it that as a company you think it is ok to piss on your customer base anytime you want to?? It is 100% your fault this situation even exists and now you want to switch the tier price to fix it?? So clueless at the top!! We are the ones paying the tier and keeping this world alive but yet you try your hardest to make us want to leave all the time!! Why do you want us to hate you??? I would say your overall approval ratings make George Bush's look spectacular!!!

Is it fair for a misjudgement on your part to result in a massive price increase for users? Most rented land has a Covenant which states clearly what residents can and can not do. There was nothing in the information about openspaces to suggest that owners needed to limit their usage. Also, is it fair to alter the terms of a contract unilaterally without discussion and without any consideration for the planning and costings which buyers undertake before buying land in SL?

If You really want us to leave, just ask.....

or maybe You just did!~

/me takes the hint.

Alisha

Who is not waiting till the end of the year. Not that you care...

I'd say if you are going to near double the fee, you ought to near double the prim count and the CPU. otherwise you have made the sims pointless. Why would anyone pay 1/2 the tier of a full sim for 1/4 the performance??? you already set a cap on performance.... a cap that has hardly budged in 5 years. I don't know about what you guys at LL have been using for hardware, but on the planet I live on, computers have gotten a LOT faster in the last 5 years. so... technology marches forward, LL doesn't pass their obvious savings on to us, and instead punish us by using what we pay for.

This sounds like a fantastic advertisement for Open Sim. a place where when you rent a server, you actually get what you pay for.

I have to guess this is all being done because LL is upset that people with some spare cash to burn have opted for a low prim sim for personal use instead of buying a full sim.

I am sorry to say that with the price change of Openspaces, I will have to cancel one of the two I own. Given I will shortly be paying more per sq meter for Openspace sim than I do for my full sim, dishing out $295 + $125 + $125 is a bit much to ask for someone who doesn't run a business in SL and doesn't want to. I could justify $75, but $125 to, what, punish everyone for the overuse of others?

Just what does increasing the price /do/ to address that problem? Make it not cost effective to rent by not making it cost effective to /play/? I fail to see the logic. Who are you trying to encourage to use OpenSpace, anyway?

That is at least $125 less a month Linden Labs will be getting from me, and a chunk more of my patience gone.

Surely regulation on usage rather than increased fees would be the solution to abuse. If there are problems caused by more than a certain number of avatars on the sim, don't allow the agent limit to be changed. Maybe make any script running at over .025 automatically stop running?

Punishing those who HAVE followed the intended usage and HAVE followed the rules is not going to encourage people to continue to do business with you, and I imagine there will be many people dropping their open sims come Jan 1st. Why isn't it possible to sanction and regulate the abusers who, as the blog entry said, caused this change?

I don't see much of a difference between an open sim being used for a residential area and being used as a flat space of open sea. On either, there might be three or four people on it at any one time, a minimum of running scripts, and of course the prim limit of 3750. Is there really such a difference if the land is raised and there's a house, rather than sea weed and ocean?

If the looming global depression is the cause for these price changes, just say it. As of now, I agree with the cries of "bait and switch", because to have believed at the beginning that no one would test the limits of these sims is the definition of naivete. But what most people would do is squelch those that abuse their privileges, not slap an entire population of consumers with what can only be seen as a punishment for others' crimes.

I had hoped to get an openspace sim to display my builds. I am unwilling to pay the kind of money you require for an estate without SL income and mainland is a joke. How about taking steps to make mainland palatable before you pull the rug out from under so many users. I for one am going to take a good hard look at the opensim grids if you go through with this.

Little or no improvement to sim performance (just education), no increase in prims, more restrictive ownership rules, still no ability to purchase openspaces without having full sim already, and raising the tier prices by $50 USD a month?! How on earth do you justify charging $125 a month for a sim that’s throttled in performance and prims by 75% relative to a full sim? This isn’t about improving the experience on openspaces - it’s about greed and it’s going to an epic failure. More people leaving SL in disgust. less land ownership, and less revenue for Linden. Sheer corporate idiocy.

“We will also provide some detailed guidance about what ‘overuse’ looks like and how to prevent it.”

This is precisely what should have been done up-front, before the very first one was sold. We appreciate new features and offerings, and it would make a significant difference if LL were clear up-front rather than doing a “rats–we didn’t think it through we’re changing the deal” move. This is called "reneging on a promise".

As with most things in LL, the issues usually seem to be not technical, but lack of clarity in policy, good definition and taking the time to formulate it BEFORE commmicating it. And then the policies need to be enacted in an effective --and MEASURABLY CONSISTENT-- manner.

Clear and immutable policies engender trust. The opposite engenders distrust and resentment. Let’s go for the former.

First of all Jack, I found your original blog post to be extremely offensive in the tone and way that it was worded. I respect that you are just doing your job, etc but your message could have been delivered with more tact and understanding in my personal opinion.

I feel that Linden Lab knew exactly what they were doing when they first offered the OP sims to SL users. They needed cash, and offered this great deal, knowing that users would use the sims as rentals. SO please let's keep it real here. Secondly, please do not address us like some criminals or bad children who need to be spanked.

Many of us feel that this sudden change is not about abuse but about users preferrring to mostly buy OP sims as opposed to mainland. Of course people prefer to have their own little island whether it be full prim or not. Anything over 75 USD a month is entirely too much. Allot of us feel this is a kind of extortion.

We just purchased an OP island today before this blog post and transferred the name as Owner from payor.. so what does this hype mean to us? That the process will be reversed or what?

I also seriously doubt that most OP sims are being abused. There were not stipulations as what the sims could be used for what when we purchased them. I have had 3D Concepts, my texture store, on an OP sim for 8 months with no problems and now you want to destroy our little virtual world with an unfair 66% tier increase! I'm in total shock to say the least.

Don't you think that Linden Lab is really setting itself up for a class action lawsuit without realizing it? A 66% tier increase is INSANE. TSome work consider this to be a major bait and switch. 125 USD for an OP sims is ridiculous.. and that times 4 = 500 USD a month, 150 USD more than the cost of a full prim island! Personally I find this abusive to the users of Second Life, especially in these hard economic times. Even in good times, this is just so wrong.

Once again, I would really like to hear what abusive is. I asked the concierge team once if my OP sim that I use to conduct my texture store business on 3D Concepts was ok and I was informed that it was more than ok and I was far from reaching my limit on scripts and that we were allowed to use the full 100% prims. I seriously doubt that many are abusing these sims. I personally feel that this is just an ugly backlash because new mainland is not selling as expected. Sorry to inform you, but compared to any new mainland, even places like baycity or nautilus, OP sims are more attractive to many, so no reason to get all nasty and rude about it.

Finally, I think this time Linden Lab has found a way to piss off most everyone in SL. This starting to feel more like a dictatorship with every policy change. Clash of the Titans or Lindens in this case and SL residents are nothing more than chess pieces as LL manipulates us into buying and selling with no regards to how it negatively impacts us.

I dont own an openspace sim so the changes wont hit me direct
but the way LL is making "improvements" and handles customer service (again)
will lead alot of people to leave Second Life. And that seems to be a trend that is already existing and practiced. Even me already thinking about to took my business down in SL and investing more into OpenGrid and other virtual worlds.

LindenLab... take more care about your customers. They pay you!
And get some education at customer service please

I am sorry to say that with the price change of Openspaces, I will have to cancel one of the two I own. Given I will shortly be paying more per sq meter for Openspace sim than I do for my full sim, dishing out $295 + $125 + $125 is a bit much to ask for someone who doesn't run a business in SL and doesn't want to. I could justify $75, but $125 to, what, punish everyone for the overuse of others?

Just what does increasing the price /do/ to address that problem? Make it not cost effective to rent by not making it cost effective to /play/? I fail to see the logic. Who are you trying to encourage to use OpenSpace, anyway?

That is at least $125 less a month Linden Labs will be getting from me, and a chunk more of my patience gone.

I won't bother calling anyone by their first names. That sort of familiarity breeds contempt - the kind that changes pricing at whim.

I am thankful that I no longer own a simulator or an open space simulator. Since someone is allegedly going to read this and perhaps even respond to it (doubtful), here are my points.

(1) Open Space simulators were given prim limits and a vague definition of what was permissible. This is a clear variance in expectations between Linden Lab and it's customers (the people who pay for a service).

(2) Linden Lab did not put failsafes on open space simulators, apparently, so that there are issues with the network when people use the open space simulators in ways that are not permitted. Perhaps someone should have said, "Throttle" at that internal Linden Lab meeting? Or perhaps the person who did was completely ignored in the defense of expediency? Who knows?

(3) Banning people who are angry over this, such as Sarah Nerd (or so I have heard) only reinforces the thought that Linden Lab has dropped the 'Y' out of "Your World".

I could wax poetic on offtopic things. I won't. It's that I don't take Linden Lab seriously anymore - there's just no point on spending money in a virtual world where at a moment's notice the owner of the virtual world (not the users, despite the advertising) can just screw people out of real hard cash. This demonstrates either a callous attitude toward users or poor planning... or both.

Better luck in the future. If you have one.

With the news of the pricing change, that was NOT in effect when the land was bought, will LL be offering to BUY BACK the now unwanted Open Space Regions??? The land was bought and a price was set that was agreeable. Now, if residents don't see that they are willing to pay your higher fees, I believe it only fair that you refund the original purchase price. Dont you think so, LL??

The extra is in the price of course.

1 X full sim =15,000 and $295.00 tier per month.
4 x open space @ 3750 prims each = 15,000 and $500.00 tier per month.

I too, disagree with the way this has been approached, and the price increase is completely out of proportion with normal full prim sims.

so my question also would be- is this the forerunner to a price increase for normal sims to $500.00 per month? and if not, why are we not seeing a proportionate increase in the capabilities of openspace sims to the price that will be charged for them?

Of course it is fair..in their minds...they've made residents responsible for poor planning on their part before...back when they were allowing anyone to join SL to pump up their numbers...they threw age verification to the wind...not demanding any real verifiable information from a new member...then years later, they tried to hold residents liable for someone that is underage perhaps seeing something of an adult nature on their parcel...LL thinks this is perfectly ok to do...

I have an idea that would help reduce the impact on the grid...not by hitting folks that pay to use LL's resources...but by removing those that don't pay for their impact on the grid at all...I am referring to those that have freebie accounts. There should be no reason that a resident should not have a premium account in SL...after all, you are paid the amount you spend on a premium account back in stipends...or nearly all of it...over the course of the year...so your net cost for a premium account is just about zero. Why not reduce the impact on the grid, not by penalizing those that actually pay to play..but by only allowing a free account to exist for thirty days, and then being deleted...anyone should be able to tell at that point if they really want to stay. It sure would make it hard to run all of the alts folks use to build their traffic...

Errr... the performance you get from a sim today is light years better than what you got in 2005, and that's only 3 years.