As posted earlier Linden Lab in itself has abused it own policy on the stated use of Open Sims.
So don't try to tell me that light use line....
Grandfather the existing ones and let's move forward here. If you need to up performance on the existing regions do so but, not at the expense of the residents that purchased them in good faith.
Renee Faulds
Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive
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Openspace Announcement Discussion with Jack Linden |
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Renee Faulds
Rises Out Of The Ashes
Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 87
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10-29-2008 20:31
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aXel Yallock
Registered User
Join date: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 12
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10-29-2008 20:32
That reply on the blog is so uncompromising, in my opinion just akin to putting us on hold till we relax. heh.
Jade is right on the money, and i believe that would help convince any judge/jury: 3,750 prims worth of trees for 256 sq meters space is very ecological. A Few Things: 1) Why would they double the prims for open, *empty* areas? 3750 prims is actually quite a lot. If you use even half allotted prims , the space, by definition, isn't empty anymore. If all that was meant was "space" with a few Linden (1-prim) trees, or even higher-prim landscaping, the most I imagine one would really need is maybe 500 prims. 2) Why would they allow Openspaces to be placed anywhere on the grid, not attached to any other Openspaces or full sims? What would be the purpose of a *standalone* sim of empty ocean or forest, separated from other areas on the grid? Between full sims, it makes sense. Standalone, it does not. It doesn't add up. I just don't believe Jack's statement - he is twisting the truth. They knew what people were using them for, and further encouraged residential use at the bare minimum by making the above changes. What really happened was, they just didn't realize how popular they would become, even if they were creating a strain on the servers. And now they are going "Oops!" in a very big way. |
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Kirstyn Meredith
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jul 2008
Posts: 17
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10-29-2008 20:37
Thirdly, I wanted to clarify one issue. As mentioned in the post, Openspaces were intended for space, empty areas of ocean or forest. Take a look at the Knowledgebase article description here. By that criteria, the large majority of Openspaces have more going on than was the original intent. We are not suggesting this is a bad thing, and of course we’re delighted that people have found them to be so useful. And we’re not saying that everyone is abusing resources. We are saying that the use has changed, and continues to do so as people find more creative ways to use them. So the revised pricing is about recognising that change of use and the additional costs and value associated with it. As I've stated before, this sends the message that it will be ok to use OS sims as residential/commercial as long as it meets their load criteria. What I don't get is why don't they just come out and say "look, it's ok for homes & stores, but we need to keep the load down, so..." Now the additional costs & value I can completely understand, assuming the above is correct. That much land space should be more expensive than private regions. Alternatively, if this is truly the road you're taking LL, you need to introduce multiple types of OS. OS and Region Lite or something flashy. OS is clearly OS for STRICTLY your original criteria & a Region Lite for residential/commercial & organize the CPUs accordingly. I mean seriously, would putting 16 Region Lite sims really solve the problem? I can completely understand the economy of hardware, but is the Lab that desperate for maximizing rack space? It's a unique adjustment to a unique problem. Do OS sims need more than the original 1300 or so prim amount? No. Those can be your current (old) priced regions. New price for Light Region? Yes, but you still need to consider grandfathering or refunds to ONLY those who purchased OS after the announcement. This only fixes the problem between different types of sims for as you said, different uses (which aren't so new, we all know Dreamland & other places were renting them & some RP sims making cities/doing combat on them too). If you leave it open for abuse, it will be abused. So instead of policing by cost, revamp the criteria for each and come down hard on those not using the sims for their intended purpose. As you stated Jack, you may want the best things for Second Life, and so do I, but I will not accept it being at the expense of people who DID meet LL's OS criteria (especially those before the "sale"  by investing in your product just to have their areas (in some cases a dream spot) indirectly taken away by a recent "oops" by the Lab.It really comes down to this, which is more important to the Lab, no grandfathering/refunds & take the hit or keeping places like the sailing group who has been here for years? I know what my choice would be and I don't need to see figures. Sometimes you need to step back to get ahead. |
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Digyo Graves
Registered User
Join date: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 0
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Let's be totally honest here Jack
10-29-2008 20:37
Linden lab's knew full well what the open space sims were going to be used for.
3570 prims for an -empty- sim? Open space sims existing in isolation unconnected to full regions? yeah right. truth of the mater, I think we can ALL see this as it really is. Mainland is not selling so the land barons, the likes of anshee chung who pays linden lab a hell of a lot of money, complain that their mainland sales are dropping. Surprise, Surprise linden lab tell us they made a boo boo... "Oh no, we didn't account for all these prims that might be used, oh don't be silly, we didn't plan ahead, we are exactly like the bankers and morgage companies responsible for the current credit crunch, in other words we are irresponsible" basically. It's big , brown, and smells like a sewer. be honest bout it at least. |
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Haisy Halasy
Registered User
Join date: 8 Jul 2007
Posts: 4
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Tax song
10-29-2008 20:38
Right Paean: "JACK"TAXMAN Let me tell you how it will be There's one for you, nineteen for me 'Cause I'm the jacktaxman Yeah, I'm the jacktaxman Should five percent appear too small Be thankful I don't take it all 'Cause I'm the jacktaxman Yeah, I'm the jacktaxman (If you drive a car car) I'll tax the street (If you try to sit sit) I'll tax your seat (If you get too cold cold) I'll tax the heat (If you take a walk walk) I'll tax your feet JACKTaxman! 'Cause I'm the JACKtaxman Yeah, I'm the JACKtaxman Don't ask me what I want it for If you don't want to pay some more 'Cause I'm the JACKtaxman Yeah, I'm the JACKtaxman If I reduce it again you'll see Get back more at the V.A.T. 'Cause I'm the JACKtaxman Yeah, I'm the JACKtaxman If you get a head head, I'll tax your hat If you get a pet pet, I'll tax your cat If you wipe your feet feet, I'll tax your mat If you're overwieght weight, I'll tax your fat Now my advise to those who die (JACKTaxman!) Declare the pennies on your eyes (JACKTaxman!) 'Cause I'm the JACKtaxman Yeah, I'm the JACKtaxman. And you're working for no one, but me (JACKTaxman!) Yes, I'm the JACKtaxman Yeah, I'm the JACKtaxman make me smile but .... if you sing a song, I'll tax your voice if you have fun, I'll tax your smile if you think to have a replay, I'll tax your forum if you think to have hope, I'll tax your rights JACKTaxman! 'Cause I'm the JACKtaxman Yeah, I'm the JACKtaxman |
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Richard Palace
Registered User
Join date: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 241
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10-29-2008 20:41
Everyone here should be offering their solutions. not complains.
Here are some solutions linden might want to consider. 1. Allow 16 Openspaces to be grouped together under 1 Quad Core Server. 2. Allow 8 Openspaces and 2 private islands to be grouped together under 1 Quad Core Server. 3. Allow 4 Openspaces and 3 private islands to be grouped together under 1 Qual Core Server. 4. Allow 4 Opensapces to be converted to 1 Private islands FOC. 5. Allow owners to find their own partners to be grouped together under 1 Quad Core Server. If that particular Qual Core Server is using lots of resources, shut it down and send warning to the owner or all the owners in the same Qual Core Server. This solution would boost up the sales instead of driving them away. BTW, I do not own any private islands or openspace. Every time, I wanted to get in, something will happen. |
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JR Unknown
I dabble in land a bit
Join date: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 125
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Master, I would vote for you to help LL get their act together anyday!!
10-29-2008 20:41
I'll give the following example to show Linden Lab's and Jack's disingenuous excuses for the tier increases. Recently the biggest land baron in SL (I managed her continent for 2 years) instructed and paid Lindens to convert 100 full prim sims to 400 open space sims. Jack's group followed those instructions and charged for the conversion a flat rate of several thousand dollars. This individual was the pioneer of SL private island sales and rentals. She started the whole concept of land resale at a time when private land could only be deeded to groups and was not recognized as deeded to any individual. Jack knew very well that the business of this land baron is resale and renting of land in SL for residences and businesses. Did he or anyone at Linden lab question the wisdom of converting another 400 OS sims? The heavy use was already evident from all the past direct purchases of OS sims by this individual. It was condoned and in fact tacitly encouraged. Now Jack comes and tells us that it was all wrong. Yet he pocketed the fees that this individual paid for the conversions. This amounts to tacit approval of the use of the OS sims for their normal and usual operation as residences and businesses. Jack and Linden Lab could have warned about the potential use of these sims to the biggest land client LL has. Yet he proceeded to allow the transaction to go forward. Since all 600 sims owned by this estate owner are grandfathered at the $195 / month tier fees, the fees for OS now jump from $50/month to $125/month. That is not a 67% increase but a 150% increase. How can Jack Linden or any Linden justify this behavior. They plead ignorance yet they were fully aware of what all these sims were going to be used for. This land baron has been in this business longer then anyone in SL, at least 4 years. Real companies need to have a sense of stability, predictability, planning when dealing with Linden lab. None of these have been evident in the estate/land area of SL. This continuing mismanagement of land area, values and fees does not attract businesses that LL wants to have here. The negative publicity generated by this type of announcement and any legal process that comes out of this will drive businesses away from this platform I really don't care how high LL wants to raise prices or sell sims. That's all secondary to me. I do question their honesty, integrity as a company and as individuals, lack of clear and candid communication with its biggest group of revenue producers and really the lack of any business plan or strategic intent. If these exist then I would question weather anyone is following them. Unfortunately I feel that there is no way for this situation to be resolved amicably, given the typical arrogance and monopolistic behavior we have witnessed so often and the strong emotional revolt this has caused. There is a culture of "buyer beware" at linden lab. There is an arrogance that customers don't matter because for now it's the only game in town. It won't always be the only game in town. The false loyalty you witness today will play itself out as soon as Google, Sony, Microsoft and others roll out their version of virtual worlds. How many of us do you think will still be here ? Now for the constructive part: 1. Communicate with your clients honestly, candidly and long before you publish these absurd edicts. If these discussions had taken place in a more professional setting with clear communication between LL and its customers, none of this negative publicity would have transpired. We, your customers are out of the loop. We are not consulted nor given adequate warning of upcoming major deliberations and decisions. 2. Three years ago the L$ currency was out of control, swinging almost as wildly as the stock market today. LL appointed a program manager and with a little time and an excellent process the L$ stabilized and has fluctuates at 264 +/- 1 L$ for at least 2 years. This is the type of stability we need for land values, usage and fees. Please appoint that same person to develop a process of land stabilization so that we the "investors" in SL virtual land can plan our investments and designs with some assurance that they will have an ROI and not wake up one day and see new restrictions and 67% and 150% fee increases. The present system gives us assurance for about 24 hours .. we need a year with quarterly updates (as has already been suggested). 3. You must re-establish trust. This is the most critical element of being in business. Right now I don't trust you. I don't think I'm alone by reading these postings. Work with us, show us that we are your customers. Don't patronize us. Don't short-change us. Don't lie to us. You have no real competition right now. That trust needs to be there when Google announces their new virtual economic platform based on ads and not on land fees. I've done a little venting because I'm passionate about trust and integrity in an organization. The tier fees for open sims have never been the issue for me. I took the risk and if I get burned I can stand it. Life goes on. I'll now keep an open mind and see how you react to these postings by your customers and what actions you take to remedy the loss of trust in your organization. I do hope Mark Kingdon is also tuned in to this because much of this lies at his doorstep and only he can set the tone of strong leadership and sense of ethics for the rest of the organization. The culture at LL needs to change. Best post I have seen and it comes from someone that has way more land experience than most in SL. Couldn't agree with you more Master!!!! Now if only LL would actually listen and or respond to this so called discussion. Shame on you again LL!!!! |
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Kain Turner
Registered User
Join date: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 37
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10-29-2008 20:42
I'll give the following example to show Linden Lab's and Jack's disingenuous excuses for the tier increases. Recently the biggest land baron in SL (I managed her continent for 2 years) instructed and paid Lindens to convert 100 full prim sims to 400 open space sims. Jack's group followed those instructions and charged for the conversion a flat rate of several thousand dollars. This individual was the pioneer of SL private island sales and rentals. She started the whole concept of land resale at a time when private land could only be deeded to groups and was not recognized as deeded to any individual. I've done a little venting because I'm passionate about trust and integrity in an organization. The tier fees for open sims have never been the issue for me. I took the risk and if I get burned I can stand it. Life goes on. I'll now keep an open mind and see how you react to these postings by your customers and what actions you take to remedy the loss of trust in your organization. I do hope Mark Kingdon is also tuned in to this because much of this lies at his doorstep and only he can set the tone of strong leadership and sense of ethics for the rest of the organization. The culture at LL needs to change. Nothing personal Master but I don't think your gonna find many ppl on here or in Sl who is gonna feel sympathy for the land baroness you speak of even under this big LL blunder.I feel sympathy for the ppl who were using them like they were supposed to the ppl who wanted to bad to have there own private lil island away from everyone else to enjoy SL in the way they intended.The ppl who ran OS for the community to enjoy for free. |
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Alisha Matova
Too Old; Do Not Want!
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 583
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10-29-2008 20:43
"Its time to hand over the reins to someone that isn't about to drive off dozens if not hundreds or even thousands of customers, and cost the company thousands if not millions of dollars."
Jack won't quit. He just made LL millions(22000+ times 250 minimum) selling Us OS regions and now he found a way to make Us give them all back... ...sad but brilliant. |
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Nakitta Nightfire
=^ WILDCATZ ^=
Join date: 7 Jul 2008
Posts: 77
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Help!!!! How Do I Know What Is Open Sim When Rebuying!!??
10-29-2008 20:44
How can i see if it is open space sim or not!!?? I looked today at some land and it dosen't say anything in the about tab someone please tell me before i buy another open sim and lose another 15k or more
 ( aarrgghhhhh!!Also i must be thick as i never knew open space sims were intended for WATER!!?? i have 1973 ish prims aloud i was meant to us them as WATER!!?? Can u even get that amout of water i didn't think they were counted as PRIMS!!?? HUH? WTF? WHY THE HELL GIVE THAT AMOUNT OF PRIMS IF WE WEREN'T SUPOSED TO USE THEM!!?? I've read alot of y'alls comments and this sounds like a scam also to me you give people an aloud amout of prims they are aloud to use but WE shouldn't of used them?? And you guys who say good about time they did something u totally are missing the point come on!! I've been on here nearly a year how the hell should i know what a damn open full or whatever sim it is and what that means we just bought it and stayed within our prim allownce like any other person in a non open sim!!?? And no not high traffic that's what the clubs are for right? so.....what the hell do i do now?? abandon like i did to last land to get to my new open space and be 30K down cause i'm not gonna be able to sell it and the estate owner isn't going to buy it back and pay MORE MONEY!!? And buy WHAT? WHERE? When i can't be sure what is open space or not!!?? My last point is where is your apoligy for making a wrong decision on increasing the number of prims aloud to open spaces which in turn has caused performnce problems it's your fault you raised it and now are going OPPS admit YOU made the mistake not me and residents like me or estate owners WE are having to pay for this mistake i think the least you could do is own up to it and say sorry!! And then come to an HONEST and OPEN comprimise!!There is no excuse not to, many people have given you different fair ways to deal with this matter some of the mess has to be laid at your door too that is only right and professional. JACK, LL don't be greedy be ethical this action is morally wrong and you know it. |
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Jeep Tenk
Registered User
Join date: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 469
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Hearts and minds are lost…
10-29-2008 20:46
This is really discouraging…the more I delve into the blogs, chatlogs, referendums and the more I talk to my fellow SL citizens and listen to the volunteers - many of which are former volunteers by today - the more I loose my last remnants of trust and confidence in LL!
Too many things have been turned too frequently on their head. Employees saying or publishing whatever comes to their minds, or doing 'damage control' by denying everything or blurting out statements in conflict with what was previously stated to be policy or guidelines we could trust. And the VAT issue! On top of the LL created land glut and off-level tier system, it hit many of us quite hard and made competition close to impossible - and all for nothing. The EU can not enforce VAT rules to a US based company. Somebody in LL just decided to roll over and implement it anyway, even though it made the field even less level for the European private land owners. (I assume you DO forward the VAT to the respective national purses?) And the fact that, if a land owner abandons a sim the residents simply loose all their belongings - no warning, no consideration from LL - it has damaged the private land owners a good deal too, as people are often leery of taking land in case the sim folds and they loose everything overnight, since LL, in their wisdom, has decided that they are not going to issue a warning and give some days of grace before deleting the region… And so on - it just piles up… In the present mess there is only one way out (or 2 as the case may be): 1) LL grandfathers the existing open-spaces without any restrictions but those already in effect. 2) LL refunds the 250US$ to all owners with 1, 2 or 3 open-spaces, that do not want to keep them. LL gives the option of conversion of 4 open-spaces to a full sim, to those who want it - otherwise they receive a refund too. |
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Mariana McBride
Open sim abuser
Join date: 23 May 2008
Posts: 26
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10-29-2008 20:47
Nothing personal Master but I don't think your gonna find many ppl on here or in Sl who is gonna feel sympathy for Anshe even under this big LL blunder Maybe they don't.. who knows, but he have a point there... I agree with him... why sell the land to her and then say it is an abuse they can't stand... |
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Desjah Lock
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2
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10-29-2008 20:49
A Few Things: 1) Why would they double the prims for open, *empty* areas? 3750 prims is actually quite a lot. If you use even half allotted prims , the space, by definition, isn't empty anymore. If all that was meant was "space" with a few Linden (1-prim) trees, or even higher-prim landscaping, the most I imagine one would really need is maybe 500 prims. 2) Why would they allow Openspaces to be placed anywhere on the grid, not attached to any other Openspaces or full sims? What would be the purpose of a *standalone* sim of empty ocean or forest, separated from other areas on the grid? Between full sims, it makes sense. Standalone, it does not. It doesn't add up. I just don't believe Jack's statement - he is twisting the truth. They knew what people were using them for, and further encouraged residential use at the bare minimum by making the above changes. What really happened was, they just didn't realize how popular they would become, even if they were creating a strain on the servers. And now they are going "Oops!" in a very big way. Here here...I am in complete agreement with you, Jade. The latest blog post is a crock of ****. When Linden Labs doubled the prim allotment and made the option of having an Openspace sim placed anywhere on the grid as a standalone sim, they knew that WE, the CUSTOMERS (I refuse to say Residents), would primarily be using them as private residences. I have owned and rented Openspace/Void sims for almost the entire two years I have been in Second Life. The first two were attached sims to Estates and the last two were standalone sims. I have had Lindens come out to my sims from the start of my first Openspace/Void sim purchase. They saw I used the sim as a private residence and personal sandbox and NOTHING was ever said at those times that I was not using them for their intended purpose. AND that was at a time when the description of Openspace/Void sims was the party line of "It is therefore important to understand what these regions are. They are provided for light use only, not for building, living in, renting as homes or use for events. As a stretch of open water for boating or a scenic wooded area they are fine, but we do not advise more serious use than this and will not respond to performance issues reported should you not use them in this way." After Linden Labs decision to double the prim allotment and allow standalone placement of the sim anywhere on the grid, they KNEW and have admitted that this definition no longer applied. Now they want to go back to the old party line of what Openspace/Void sims used to be defined as and point fingers saying WE, the CUSTOMERS, are wrong for how WE, the CUSTOMERS, are using the product. If Linden Labs wants to keep shoveling BS, backpeddle, and shovel more BS....by all means...have at it. I'm completely disgusted and do not care to listen to your drivel any longer. For the last two days, I have been checking out every virtual world out there that I can find. Admittedly most are no where near the level that Second Life is currently at but they will get there and now with the influx of SL refugees flocking to their sites, the game of catch-up is on and in full swing. Keep an eye open behind you Linden Labs....the hounds will be nipping at your heels sooner than later and those leading the charge are going to be the SL refugees you have completely and utterly alienated. |
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Kain Turner
Registered User
Join date: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 37
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10-29-2008 20:50
Maybe they don't.. who knows, but he have a point there... I agree with him... why sell the land to her and then say it is an abuse they can't stand... He has alot of good points I never said I agreed with how they have handled this even to what they did to her the fault alone lands in LL lap no way around that they should never have allowed open space sims to be sold and then subrented out in the manner they have but they took ppls money so in the end its LL fault.Just was simply pointing out when it comes to some night so nice ehtical practices the person mentioned hasn't exactly always been the most honest forthright person in SL and probly won't get much sympathy from this community. |
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Judeman Wisent
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2008
Posts: 1
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10-29-2008 20:50
yes and there is also this lovely castle valeria .. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Castle%20Valeria/54/58/24 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Mos%20Ainsley/132/137/48 Both of these Open Space sims were actually built by the Moles who work for Linden Lab. Both of these Open Space sims are perfect examples of hypocricy and deception on the part of Linden Lab. This is a prime example and can actually be used as evidence against them in a court of law that they are indeed in grave violation of the AntiTrust law. They are monopolozing the economy and market to benifit them, giving them an unfair and unrealistic advantage over their competitors, the users of Second Life. Naughty naughty Mr Linden. If I were you now, I would be consulting with an attorney. Speaking of attorneys, my lawyer has kindly offered to represent the users of SL (probono) pertaining to the Open Space sim issue. You can contact him via his website: http://www.ralphgaboury.com/ He is currently setting up an official petition to present to Linden Lab. Once again, I really do love Second Life and normally I support Linden Lab on many of their policies but this time are they are just wrong. This action will hurt more than 50% of SL users. It will destroy the virtual and even real life dreams of many. I sincerely hope that they rethink this decision carefully. They better change their minds if they wanna keep SL going.......there will be very few who will be able to stay in SL like that. Linden labs have to rethink that policy, they have to stop that. |
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Magic Shostakovich
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 2
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I still think somebody didn't take their medication
10-29-2008 20:56
Dear Jack,
Lemme start by quoting you: "We are saying that the use has changed, and continues to do so as people find more creative ways to use them. So the revised pricing is about recognising that change of use and the additional costs and value associated with it." Speaking again from my own work experience on the IT industry (which, in case you didn't read my last post, spans for more than 20 years already), there are two things called "network resource planning" and "careful network resource planning". If you smart people at LL really didn't foresee that our "creativity" would expand into the Open Space Sims for something other than planting trees and watching the waves roll by, then you guys are, like I said on my first post, really amateurs. Picture this - a company asks me to prepare a quote for setting up a corporate network. I do the necessary assessments, and present the requested quote for an entire infrastructure. The quote is approved and I build the entire thing. A couple of months later, after analysing traffic data, I come to the conclusion that I messed things up initially and that I failed to include in my original assessment the extra traffic generated by new employees and customers both over the intranet and the Internet. So what do I do? I call the company and tell them they have to pay me 66% more over the initial quote, saying that their employees and customers are using the network in illegal ways. If I ever did this, what would I be called? INCOMPETENT, for sure, because people are not stupid and somebody would end up figuring out that I was simply trying to disguise my failure to correctly assess traffic expansion figures. Another thing: an empty Open Sim with just water used for boating (it's one of the "intended uses" for Open Sims stated on the KB article mentioned by Jack) that is used, on an everyday basis, by 25 avatars with 25 jetskis per hour for some good old-fashion Linden-approved fun, generates more traffic and server load than the same open sim with a small house and some furniture used by one of those so-called culprits that are being accused of almost bringing SL to a halt. Just do the math. Honestly. It's not that hard. So this brings me to what I said on my last post - take a good and close look at your own backyard, because somebody is not doing their homework right. Maybe if you stop relying so much on "volunteers" to do some work, like you do for the client translation, and start paying solid, professional companies to do it, you'll be more successful. Yeah, it's true, it costs you money, but then you'll have a solid product and people won't complain when you ask them for money. Thanks in advance to everybody who had the patience to read through this long post - including you, Jack. Yours trully, Magic Shostakovich |
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Aerolyn Dryke
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 1
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Loss of a good home.
10-29-2008 21:00
Xay, Irukandji,
The saddest news I have had in all of my time here has been handed to me. Irukandji's end. I made my home here. A family, of all of you. I came here a little lost, and not knowing what all this was. But I found out. It was home. One of my proudest moments was being Governor here. One of a few special and lucky people. Xay, and all of you have created this world. This place of acceptance and peace. Like no other creation in all of SL, this one worked. This one stayed. Now only to be torn apart by greed and lack of business sense. All of us has touched this place. Made it more than it was. Enhanced it, built it. And no one has put more time and patience in it's creation than Xay. I want to personally thank you for all you have done and tried to do. For all of us. Xay, You are loved. You WILL be missed. And You need to do it all again. With all of us. Someday. Somewhere. Thank you. Isnt enough. I know. I will be standing on the last sim, as it goes. Feeling a loss that never should have been. I am taking my Irukandji flag. It will be placed wherever I happen to have to move. It will follow me until there is an Irukandji again. I have had so many IM's from so many of you. I know I will not forget you. And hope I too will not be forgotten. Tears have flowed already, and are not to be the last. Lets all stand together there. At the last sim. With Xay. Letting him know as well, that he was never alone. That his family is there around him when we all have to go. I will miss you all. Irukandji. ~ Aerolyn Lifetime resident of Irukandji. |
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Mariana McBride
Open sim abuser
Join date: 23 May 2008
Posts: 26
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10-29-2008 21:01
He has alot of good points I never said I agreed with how they have handled this even to what they did to her the fault alone lands in LL lap no way around that they should never have allowed open space sims to be sold and then subrented out in the manner they have but they took ppls money so in the end its LL fault.Just was simply pointing out when it comes to some night so nice ehtical practices the person mentioned hasn't exactly always been the most honest forthright person in SL and probly won't get much sympathy from this community. I understand what you say but it is not my experience with them... the only land i have i have from Dremland (an OS) and i can't say anything negative about them... really. Maybe, who knows again, i have been lucky, and i do not know so much cause my first land was from them and i do not know a diferent system. But i think Master wasen't looking for symphaty and he made a point... and i guess LL have read at least one convenant from Dremland Open Spaces... and they say residence an low commercial. Why convert 400 sims knowing that if it was abuse. Again.. sorry about my poor english.  |
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Kelley Cookie
Registered User
Join date: 2 Mar 2006
Posts: 21
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10-29-2008 21:04
Best post I have seen and it comes from someone that has way more land experience than most in SL. Couldn't agree with you more Master!!!! Now if only LL would actually listen and or respond to this so called discussion. Shame on you again LL!!!! Great idea JR but I think Master is too 'honest' to work for LL.... he wouldn't fit in. |
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Lostmedia Ares
Drinking tea
Join date: 6 Sep 2006
Posts: 290
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10-29-2008 21:04
May I remind you that, along with the guidelines on their "light use", Jack also added that Linden Lab would not answer or assume any responsibility for perfomance issues due to a different usage than what is was intended for an OS region, which I would consider a disclaimer, fair and square. It is unlikely that anyone would have issued a complaint due to problems on their OS. and even if that were the case, I fail to understand why a price increase is presented so abruptedly and inevitable. . BINGO !!! ... this is what i have been looking for over the last few days " Linden Lab would not answer or assume any responsibility for perfomance issues due to a different usage than what is was intended for an OS region " Read it jack !! " Linden Lab would not answer or assume any responsibility for perfomance issues due to a different usage than what is was intended for an OS region " So .... we buy .... our risk if it sucks right ? Now your saying it sucks ? ...and you now care ? And the way you show how you care and will fix the problem you never cared about in the begining is ?.... Charge us more money ... HAHAHAAH .... thats it ..... thats what i have been looking for that little disclaimer you put out .. " Buyer beware .... if it sucks its not our fault " But now sweeping in to help the poor people you told back then that they buy at a risk ? Law firms will have a picknick with this little titbit Thank you JulieAnn Mills ... you just made my day  _____________________
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Mistress Petty
Registered User
Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 2
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Really? Open Space announcement....
10-29-2008 21:06
Ok Flat out & simple, I only recently began renting one of these Low prim islands, there are no other islands anywhere near me... after investing $2200USD into a Mainland business that failed because of all the mainland ad spammers, sky boxes, griefer attacks, and lack of control over the Sim (even though I owned the entire Sim) I'm out $2200USD... I finally, with this little low prim Sim I have, I finally have a successful business, good traffic, and have finally found SL worth spending my time in again because I'm earning back the $2200USD that I lost on the main land...
I own 3 Successful Business in Real life. I apply my business knowledge to what I do in SL. So, I know it's not my business practices. My experience so far is simple: Mainland business (with some few exceptions) do not last & its because of the griefers, advertising barons that have rent every other 16M square to run their spam, and bad neighbors. It kills businesses & causes some people to even retire from SL. I took over the island I have from an old owner that decided to quit SL. So, this business has survived for an over an entire year because it was on it's own little low prim sim. And now, the moment I see a glimmer of success, SL want to take it all away before I even have a chance to make back the money I invested here? Wow.. talk about cahones, because I know I'm not the only person in this situation. What about the persons I rent from.. man, you are just flat out bending him over. I know for a fact that he owns over 700 sims, a mix of low prim & full prim sims... as soon as this hits... he will probably lose half his business, which if it was me, I would dump half the sims & well, that's all that money that LL is out also... I know I can't afford a price hike.. I make just enough now to pay the tier I have... I'd be happy to rent my own full Island & am using this low prim island o build my business to that point... but maybe if the full sims were a bit more affordable to purchase... then people wouldn't have to rent low prim sims to build their SL futures. I've read suggestions in the jira.. and i have a few comments of my own. The Price Hike is one thing. Buy a $50 price Hike is crappy.. $25 I could see & only to new sim owners, allow for a grandfather clause, A least for 1 year.. after that then everybody pays the new pricing. Killing the owner switching thing completely screws over every landlord out there that passes estate controls over to their renters... I used to only be a manager with estate controls before the ownership got turned over to me as the renter, and there were several limitations that plain out sucked.. not being able to bake the island so that you could revert it back should anything happen, not being able to kick a manager after they were added, etc etc etc... The "Payees" as you call them would be driven mad with request from their renters to handle these thing for them... and that would start to get old real quick. "unfair resource use by Openspace regions" hmm.. what is unfair about it.. we are given 3750 prims to work with & then we are being punished for using them? What!?! that's like getting married & being told you'll be shot for going below the waist... The resource loads are not coming from the low prim islands.. their coming from the particle spamming griefers, & the ad barons with the retardedly over complicated advertising boxes & scripting. From the reading I've been doing I can see that LL will most likely lose a ton of customers, land owners, and piss off alot of the wrong people... and in exchange WoW will gain a whole bunch more people to drool over elf pixels. SL serves a good purpose for a lot of people. Handicap, shut ins, Social Anxiety sufferers, etc.. and those are some of the people renting those sims your talking about punishing... if you can sleep with screwing a whole bunch of people who's only social life is their island/Second Life.. then go ahead.. I'm sure it will make a great story for the newspapers somewhere... -_^b Simply Put.. Unless you want to go down in history as screwing up SL's Economy & its people along with Good Old G.W.Bush... then this would be the right way to do it.. YOU AVE ALOT OF FEEDBACK HERE... And how does the old saying go?: THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT! |
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Kain Turner
Registered User
Join date: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 37
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10-29-2008 21:08
I understand what you say but it is not my experience with them... the only land i have i have from Dremland (an OS) and i can't say anything negative about them... really. Maybe, who knows again, i have been lucky, and i do not know so much cause my first land was from them and i do not know a diferent system. But i think Master wasen't looking for symphaty and he made a point... and i guess LL have read at least one convenant from Dremland Open Spaces... and they say residence an low commercial. Why convert 400 sims knowing that if it was abuse. Again.. sorry about my poor english. Master from what few times I have dealt with him has always been very professional I have respect for him he has never given me reason not to this really has nothing to do with anything he made some good points and I guess overall I was saying I hope that ppl will take the good points he made and overlook the other important we all try to stand together on this rather than apart.(and no I don't own a open space sim) I had one I got rid of it a few weeks ago and as someone else posted I feel horrible now that I did because this person is now stuck with a higher tier rate |
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Kirstyn Meredith
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jul 2008
Posts: 17
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10-29-2008 21:08
Recently the biggest land baron in SL (I managed her continent for 2 years) instructed and paid Lindens to convert 100 full prim sims to 400 open space sims. Jack's group followed those instructions and charged for the conversion a flat rate of several thousand dollars. This individual was the pioneer of SL private island sales and rentals. She started the whole concept of land resale at a time when private land could only be deeded to groups and was not recognized as deeded to any individual. Your whole point is based on they didn't stop you? I think that the other poster who is making a point about OS location and prim increase has a more valid point than you do. Yes most of us know you're Dreamland under Anshe Chung, which makes your reasoning even more knee slapping. You all, of all people, know SL land and I have NO doubt you all knew the guidance on OS, yet you pursued the transition of 100 regions to OS sims anyway. Blaming Jack for YOUR actions is the dumbest thing I've read in this entire topic. Seriously, do you look at a different land store than the rest of us? Do you have a different KB article of your own? You beefing up working for "the pioneer of SL private island sales" only establishes your obvious dismissal of that guidance. Forgive me as I pin my knees together laughing, but for someone who is confronting LL about accountability, this has got to be the biggest piece of hypocrisy on this entire board. Twirling like a princess and fake fainting while playing ignorant is a tactic I would never have expected to come from a land baron. Thank you, this made me smile  ) |
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Irish Handrick
Registered User
Join date: 30 May 2007
Posts: 12
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options
10-29-2008 21:08
One option you people have is to write your congressman/woman. If we can get enough people to do this, maybe they will step in and begin to regulate the virtual world companies like legendcityonline.com, SL and all the other companies that continue to rip people off for their hard earned money. These are rl companies and can be held responsible for their actions. So, what do you say? You got the guts to take it to the next step?
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Klang Wopat
"The Consultant"
Join date: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 212
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10-29-2008 21:10
If not now, when? If not us, who?
Thousands of SL residents will suffer under this new LL ruling on Openspace sims. If you are one of them, or know one of them, and they are moral, support them. Write a message to every Linden you can find on search, and IM them a copy of it; put the message in a notecard and drop it in all of their profiles; post the message to this forum, with additional comments; post your message ini Jira; open LL trouble tickets and post your message; find blogs about SL and post your message there again and again. Define the message and repeat it to all who will listen and to all who will not. It worked for Gandhi. Give it a shot. |