Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Geographical Separation of Adult Content
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Bonibaru Navarathna
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03-12-2009 11:49
From: Cory Edo Except the people that don't want to move in next door to a violent rape/sex/violence business or club (again people this is not for showing a wang, this is for extreme stuff), no one will be inconvenienced and the extreme sex stuff will have full reign over the current SL landmass as it exists now? Wait, Cory - you just said a few comments back that you don't think that the extreme sex industry has a very large role in SL anyway so the impact will be minimal - but now you're saying it has full reign over the SL land mass? Which is it? I'm not convinced private homes will not be affected: if I have to go to an Adult content area to BUY something like a nice little bondage pony or a talking vagina (shudders in horror) because that's where the stores are, will I be able to then take it back to the NON-Adult area of SL where I live, and rez it? Shouldn't I have to live in the Adult sim to USE what I've bought? If not, if LL is not going to police or restrict the use of such content, then moving Adult content makers/providers to a restricted sim will have very minimal impact if the content is still able to be transported out and used privately elsewhere. You can put all the liquor stores on the seedy side of town but the drunks can still wander freely about and throw up in your flowerbeds. |
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Argent Stonecutter
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03-12-2009 11:50
From: Cory Edo And how do you know the people that don't want to live next to an extreme sex club are in the minority? I don't want to live next to an extreme sex club. There is currently an extreme sex club diagonally across a sim border from my mainland property. I wish it was not there. I do not, however, believe that this policy will surgically eliminate said club without making some of my neighbors... who have been known to walk around pantsless on occasion... leave as well. And I don't want to see them leave. They're good people. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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03-12-2009 11:50
Are there going to be three categories at xtreetsl.com?
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Elanthius Flagstaff
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Join date: 30 Apr 2006
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03-12-2009 11:51
OK, another question. Have you considered what this will do to the land market? An Adult rated continent would clearly need to be huge. I mean, 1000 sims? 2000 sims? The market can barely sustain the number of sims we have now. Well, things are pretty steady, nice and stable, a gradual decrease in estate sims that seems to be slowing. If you start printing adult sims we will see land prices crash. I'd say well below L$1/sqm if you create anything more than a few hundred sims. There simply isn't the capacity to carry it.
The sort of land printing you are talking about here is going to destroy the value of every mainland owner's land and massively decrease the value of estate land (after all mainland will be much cheaper so estates will be less popular). I know it's stupid, you know it's stupid but land owners often expect their parcels to maintain their value so they can be resold. You're about to destroy a lot of people's capital investment in SL.
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Cory Edo
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Join date: 26 Mar 2005
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03-12-2009 11:52
From: Robert Graf What a good little fanboy you are Cory.... The Lindens must love you... LOL!! Speak Boy Speak.... Roll Over.... Sit.... Good Boy.... LOL!!! Thanks for your constructive input! Sorry, I don't do sex stuff in SL and while I don't care about it one way or the other, I really think the rape/extreme crap is gross and yeah, surprise, its a turnoff to people who don't come to SL looking specifically for sex. From: Ananda Sandgrain Again, you are missing MY point, which is that they'd be causing an unnecessary involuntary migration, when they could be offering a voluntary option. Except that they're talking about moving only the most extreme stuff into an area with all the other extreme stuff, and I don't really think that's an out of bounds thing to regulate, especially considering the numbers. Regulate a few to an area due to their content, or create an area for the majority of the people who don't interact with extreme content regularly (not adult content, extreme content). |
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Cory Edo
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Join date: 26 Mar 2005
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03-12-2009 11:53
From: Argent Stonecutter I don't want to live next to an extreme sex club. There is currently an extreme sex club diagonally across a sim border from my mainland property. I wish it was not there. I do not, however, believe that this policy will surgically eliminate said club without making some of my neighbors... who have been known to walk around pantsless on occasion... leave as well. And I don't want to see them leave. They're good people. So you're agreeing with the premise, but because you personally believe that this isn't going to turn out the way that the Lindens are describing in this thread, you're arguing against it based on your assumptions of what will happen in the future? That's not a really solid place to be judging from. |
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Nimue Jewell
Unabashedly Leggy
Join date: 20 Mar 2007
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03-12-2009 11:54
From: SuezanneC Baskerville Are there going to be three categories at xtreetsl.com? One of the FAQ's mentioned something about xstreet not changing because it already had flags for marking adult content. |
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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03-12-2009 11:54
Cory, the issue with the "new adult area" is not at all so much to do with what the guidelines are as with the situation it creates. Essentially, people will be asked at some point to decide to move or not, but with the problem that if they don't move, they'll be
a) subject to restrictions, which may include arbitrary judgments yet to be made;
b) subject to unknown consequences from surrounding or related communities moving or not (eg, a non-sexual shop selling skimpy clothes does not move.. and then loses all its business because its customers did)
c) possibly unable to move later, if the "movement deal" has a limited time;
d) even if it doesn't have a limited time, if they move later, they will get the "leftovers" of the new land.
What this means is that not moving is a huge risk, yet moving.. is a fairly significant risk too, because it flags yourself as being adult content. In fact, the more restrictive the rules are, the more negative it looks to move.. but you may have no choice.
Making it an option to accept the new restrictions solves this problem.
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Bonibaru Navarathna
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Join date: 4 Jul 2008
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03-12-2009 11:54
From: Shockwave Yareach You don't like it? Don't wear it. Start telling others what they may or may not wear, and there'll be problems. Shockwave, I think Ewan was just being a wise guy. You'll have to pry his prim penis out of his cold, dead fingers  |
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Cory Edo
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Join date: 26 Mar 2005
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03-12-2009 11:54
From: Bonibaru Navarathna Wait, Cory - you just said a few comments back that you don't think that the extreme sex industry has a very large role in SL anyway so the impact will be minimal - but now you're saying it has full reign over the SL land mass? Which is it? No, I'm saying the counterproposal made by some people in this thread would have that result, not that that's how things are now. |
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Al Supercharge
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Join date: 22 Dec 2006
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ESTATES currently M - need to become ADULT ?
03-12-2009 11:55
Since we are going to have 3 ratings PG, M & ADULT, if an ESTATE has a build that, if on the mainland would qualify as ADULT, then dont we need to force them to change their rating from M to ADULT ?
Even tho teens may need to be restricted from ALL M Estates dont we all need to know if an Estate has an ADULT (as opposed to an M) build? (before we blindly TP there )
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Robert Graf
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Join date: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 81
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Turn the Channel
03-12-2009 11:57
Turn the channel Cory... Dont go into adult areas.. That simple... Dont try to force people to live your way.... Or the politically correct Linden way.... Thought SL was supposed to be about freedom... I may not like what my neighbors build or have on their property... But they have the absolute right to build it.. If they are paying the tier fees... Create kiddy continent for people like yourselves.. Then we dont have to see or hear from you again... LOL!! You move, Cory!!
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Cory Edo
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Join date: 26 Mar 2005
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03-12-2009 11:58
From: Yumi Murakami Cory, the issue with the "new adult area" is not at all so much to do with what the guidelines are as with the situation it creates. Essentially, people will be asked at some point to decide to move or not, but with the problem that if they don't move, they'll be
a) subject to restrictions, which may include arbitrary judgments yet to be made;
b) subject to unknown consequences from surrounding or related communities moving or not (eg, a non-sexual shop selling skimpy clothes does not move.. and then loses all its business because its customers did)
c) possibly unable to move later, if the "movement deal" has a limited time;
d) even if it doesn't have a limited time, if they move later, they will get the "leftovers" of the new land.
What this means is that not moving is a huge risk, yet moving.. is a fairly significant risk too, because it flags yourself as being adult content. In fact, the more restrictive the rules are, the more negative it looks to move.. but you may have no choice.
Making it an option to accept the new restrictions solves this problem. subject to restrictions, which may include arbitrary judgments yet to be made - they're already subject to restrictions which include arbitrary judgments, its called the ToS and the Lindens that enforce it. subject to unknown consequences from surrounding or related communities moving or not (eg, a non-sexual shop selling skimpy clothes does not move.. and then loses all its business because its customers did) - since when did geographical location end up being a factor to business unless you're tied directly to another shop or high traffic location? A random business on the mainland is no more or less accessible than anyplace else on the mainland. even if it doesn't have a limited time, if they move later, they will get the "leftovers" of the new land. - this happens any time new mainland is released. |
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Shockwave Yareach
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Join date: 4 Oct 2006
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03-12-2009 11:58
From: Bonibaru Navarathna Shockwave, I think Ewan was just being a wise guy. You'll have to pry his prim penis out of his cold, dead fingers Then I apologize, regardless of what prims are in whose hands. It is difficult to detect that one is being humorous in the text medium sometimes. |
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Bonibaru Navarathna
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Join date: 4 Jul 2008
Posts: 27
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03-12-2009 11:58
From: Cory Edo Again, Blondin said personal stuff in your own house isn't subject to this. Its a moot point to freak out about. I appreciate you pointing that out Cory and I did note it; however, I'm still not convinced that it makes logical sense to force a person to go to a restricted area of SL to BUY explicit stuff and then they'd simply turn around and allow you to use it freely elsewhere. Why segregate part usage and not all? I'm going to need a more detailed assurance from LL than just Blondin's off-the-cuff comment, but I'll reserve further comment on it for now until they've had some time to mull over all their feedback and can provide us with more clarity. |
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Jeska Linden
Administrator
Join date: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 2,388
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03-12-2009 12:00
From: Al Supercharge Since we are going to have 3 ratings PG, M & ADULT, if an ESTATE has a build that, if on the mainland would qualify as ADULT, then dont we need to force them to change their rating from M to ADULT ?
Even tho teens may need to be restricted from ALL M Estates dont we all need to know if an Estate has an ADULT (as opposed to an M) build? (before we blindly TP there ) Al, as mentioned in the blog post, "Estate owners with Adult content on their land will be required to flag their content; they will not be required to move." We're still working to create clear and consistent definitions of what constitutes adult content, in line with our Community Standards. You can discuss this further in the other forum: http://staging.forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=311513
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Cory Edo
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Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
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03-12-2009 12:00
From: Robert Graf Turn the channel Cory... Dont go into adult areas.. That simple... Dont try to force people to live your way.... Or the politically correct Linden way.... Thought SL was supposed to be about freedom... I may not like what my neighbors build or have on their property... But they have the absolute right to build it.. If they are paying the tier fees... Create kiddy continent for people like yourselves.. Then we dont have to see or hear from you again... LOL!! You move, Cory!! If you can prove to me numerically that extreme sex/violence related businesses and clubs are the majority in SL, I will. Otherwise just from being in SL for 4 years I'm having a hard time coming up with more than a dozen areas I've seen that would qualify in my mind as extreme. Also someone should charge you for using ellipseses. |
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Nimue Jewell
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Join date: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,745
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03-12-2009 12:02
From: Bonibaru Navarathna I'm not convinced private homes will not be affected: if I have to go to an Adult content area to BUY something like a nice little bondage pony or a talking vagina (shudders in horror) because that's where the stores are, will I be able to then take it back to the NON-Adult area of SL where I live, and rez it? The way I read things that will still be fine, as long as your land is in a mature sim and the items are rezzed "behind closed doors" (which seems like something we should look for a clearer definition of). PG and Mature rated land will still exist, in addition to this new adult classification. From: someone Mature regions allow Residents to engage in more adult activity and language, though of course, explicit adult content must be contained behind "closed doors." Mature material is allowed only in Regions rated M (Mature); however, even in those areas, such material should not be easily visible to casual passers-by.
The following content is not appropriate on large outdoor billboards, roofs, windows, etc:
Intense, strong language or expletives
Nudity or sexual content in textures, sounds, or animations
Content depicting sex or strong violence
Soliciting of chat sex or avatar nudity
Anything else broadly offensive
from: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010 |
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Bonibaru Navarathna
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Join date: 4 Jul 2008
Posts: 27
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03-12-2009 12:02
From: Ananda Sandgrain Again, you are missing MY point, which is that they'd be causing an unnecessary involuntary migration, when they could be offering a voluntary option. Ananda I think you've hit it right on the head. Let the people who want to go, go, and give them a safe place to go to. Rounding up people involuntarily and corralling them in a restricted area just has .... really unfortunate connotations (at the risk of Godwinizing the discussion too early!). |
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scarlet Vavoom
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Join date: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 123
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03-12-2009 12:02
Maybe you should ask the parents of kids that play on the teen grid now. Do I want my kids around even mature content? heck I dont want my kids around ANY adults on the main grid. Not only will u offend many many paying customers on the adult grid but if u plan to move the kiddies to our grid my two sons will not be allowed to play. There are many "sick" minded people even in PG areas on adult grid, my kids are not going to be allowed to play.
I been in SL for almost 3 years and dont want my kids on this grid.
If you plan on dropping the kids on us then I suggest u seperate them from adults period. Force field, huge inpentrable wall--something.
from not so happy Mother of teen grid players
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Robert Graf
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Join date: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 81
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Misspelling
03-12-2009 12:03
You misspelled ellipses, Cory.... Too funny...
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Cory Edo
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Join date: 26 Mar 2005
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03-12-2009 12:03
From: Bonibaru Navarathna I appreciate you pointing that out Cory and I did note it; however, I'm still not convinced that it makes logical sense to force a person to go to a restricted area of SL to BUY explicit stuff and then they'd simply turn around and allow you to use it freely elsewhere. Why segregate part usage and not all? I'm going to need a more detailed assurance from LL than just Blondin's off-the-cuff comment, but I'll reserve further comment on it for now until they've had some time to mull over all their feedback and can provide us with more clarity. Cyn also said it as well, to two different people in this thread. Even if you don't believe Blondin I'll bet money on Cyn any day. |
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Jamie Marlin
Ought to be working....
Join date: 13 May 2005
Posts: 43
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Who do you trust?
03-12-2009 12:03
From: Cory Edo People asking for the reverse of this plan - to make a G rated area and shove everyone in there while leaving the rest of SL as it currently stands alone and open for everything - apparently have an overinflated concept of the level of hard core sex/violence as a percentage of the economy. The VAST majority of SL is pretty tame, especially when the majority of the stuff that IS out there comprises of someone's sex toys in their bedroom (which as Blondin said, is perfectly fine). You want everyone that doesn't want to move in next to a hard core sex club to have to be the ones to be restricted? Sorry, I don't think anyone's speaking from a place where the numbers back them up on that.
There seems to be this idea that SL is going to turn into a kindergarten while everyone of adult age is getting shoehorned into their own continent. I'm reading this more as SL will stay the same except for Rapy McRaperton's Sex Play Club on the mainland heads to a continent where people are looking for that sort of thing (and sorry, even if you love that stuff, you probably don't love that stuff 24/7 to the exclusion of everything else).
And finally for pete's sake no one's reading the fact that your own sex beds in your house are not going to get you banished to the new continent, according to Blondin. It seems like the real issue here is 'Who do you trust?' Sure, we have Lindens telling us 'don't worry - your sex bed is OK'. The problem is that this is an *interpretation* of the policy - the words as written support it, but they also support 'ban everyone wearing a skin with nipples'. For now, LL tells us that they intend to interpret 'Adult' narrowly... but we know that, over time, there is going to be LOTS of pressure from the narrow-minded minority to widen that definition. I am not certain that I trust their ability to resist. To me, this sounds an awful lot like a homeowner's association - they supposedly exist to 'protect property values' but every HOA I have ever had contact with was eventually run either by 1) a property developer trying to control the 'look' of the community to maximize his profits by keeping it as bland as possible or 2) petty tyrants intent on enforcing their own personal taste on everyone around them. The only answer I can see is to stay as far away as possible. I don't really want to live next to a hard-core public sex beach (or, worse yet, a weapons sandbox) but if the alternative is worrying about being 'turned in' because someone saw my nipples while I was changing clothes, I will take the sex beach, please. |
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Argent Stonecutter
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Join date: 20 Sep 2005
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03-12-2009 12:05
From: Cory Edo So you're agreeing with the premise, No, I'm disagreeing. I am saying that I, personally, would rather not have an adult parcel so close to me... but I do not confuse "what I would prefer" with "there oughta be a law". From: someone you're arguing against it based on your assumptions of what will happen in the future? If course I am, and so are you. You're assuming that LL will have the manpower and internal policies that will make it easy for them to implement what they say they intend to implement. I'm assuming that level of perfection is unlikely for ANY company, and that occasional mistakes in the past are indications that they aren't magically perfect. |
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Xal Dryke
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Join date: 24 Jul 2007
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03-12-2009 12:06
From: Cory Edo Thanks for your constructive input! Sorry, I don't do sex stuff in SL and while I don't care about it one way or the other, I really think the rape/extreme crap is gross and yeah, surprise, its a turnoff to people who don't come to SL looking specifically for sex. I agree with some of what you are saying Cory, and you don't deserve too many flames, but it's one thing to force an already established place to move, versus encourage growth in a bubbled clean area that non-mature oriented content could thrive. Surgically removing the extreme people and hoarding us all into the "adult" area, could easily become a witch-hunt. I respect everyone's views, and if people do not like adult content, then they should have a place to be free from it, but people who have been here, and are peppered throughout the grid should not be expected to move just because some find what they are doing offensive. |
