Feedback on Ad Farm post

Actually, given that there is a relatively small number of people who are responsible for around 90% of the problem, it will be fairly easy to enforce. They get a warning, and then they get suspended, or banned and their land reclaimed automatically.

Thank you very much for this move. I would like to add my suggestion for a solution to these problems on a larger scale:

The minimum m2 ownership in a region should be 512m2. Parcels may be sub-divided for other purposes but for re-sale the minimum size is 512m2. The sale size cannot leave you with less than 512m2 in the region unless it leaves you with nothing. People currently owning less than 512m2 in a region should be given a short time to add to their holdings in the region to meet the minimum or sell to another region land holder. Failing this the land should be sold at market price to another land holder. If none of the other region land owners are willing the land should be bought back by Governor Linden at market price and remain available to other or future region land owners. Given time all of the Mainland would be converted into land shares at the minimum billable size.

This is obviously not directly related to the dissolution of Ad Farms as long as land owners can sub-divide they can rent micro parcels for abuse, but combined with the steps mentioned in the post this could go a long way toward stabilizing the Mainland. I believe many of us look at the Mainland as Second Life's primary differentiator to other Virtual Worlds as it is what makes Second Life the only true example of such: contiguous, traversible land for exploration, a truly connected world. Back when I joined this was a great selling point and one at the time Linden Lab activly promoted before the travesty of ban lines and eject scripts made such an assertion untenable.

I think you're being blindly optimistic in totally underestimating the technical challenges involved. As I stated in my original post I still see casinos and ageplay.. several months ago there were big announcements about LL cracking down on those also. Any trip through the grid today will show you how successful those edicts have been.

No, I am quite familiar with both the technical and social challenges involved. I am also highly aware of the prevalence and sources of the problem.

Yes, there are casinos, however the issue there is not with enforcement, but in defining what does and what doesn't break the rules. The existence of a large loophole ("skill-based" games), and LL's inability (or unwillingness) so far to close it has made it difficult to get rid of what would otherwise be considered against the law. The main problem stems from the law that the policy is based on. It really isn't all that clear itself, which makes LL's task extra hard, since the only reason they have a gambling ban is because of that law.

As for ageplay, I think you'll have to agree that finding it occurring is probably the greatest challenge. Most people keep it pretty well hidden.

Neither of these issues is an impediment in the adfarming situation. First, the rule is pretty cut-and-dried. It remains to be seen if they will be able to close down any loopholes which are exploited before the deadline, but it will be a lot easier for LL to close them, since it is part of the mandate (unlike the gambling ban). Second, adfarming, by its very nature is an extroverted activity. That means it isn't hard to find, nor is it hard to identify. In addition, those who have practiced it for even a short while are well-known and documented by the residents and given to LL.

It remains to be seen if LL follows through on their mandates here, but the technical and social hurdles are small.

I hear very few reports of sexual ageplay on the grid, and much of that seems to have moved on on gone way underground. I still see the "legal" casinos, but not like casinos at their hey day.

Mari

Do you doubt the extraordinarily high prices being charged all across SL for tiny parcels? See for yourself. Land should be, at most, around L$7 per square meter. Here are examples of extortion-level land prices for tiny parcels:

L$1062 per sqm
Dasom/33/120/56 -- 16 sqm for L$16,999

L$587 per sqm
Dasom/185/130/51 -- 16 sqm for $9400

L$312 per sqm
Dotoorak/71/108/74 -- 32 sqm for $10000

L$175 per sqm
Dasom/7/34/54 -- 48 sqm for L$8400

L$156 per sqm
Dasom/170/81/51 -- 32 sqm for L$4995

L$156 per sqm
Myungsimbogam/65/230/57 -- 32 sqm for L$4995

while dealing with ad aesthetics, now might also be a good time to write in something about the content as well. One of the sources of ad-farm advertisers is those advertising things which would be illegal to advertise elsewhere (and are really illegal here too) like blatant pyramid schemes.

Perhaps just include by reference the FTC regulations?

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/ruleroad.shtm

****cheer****

It's a great beginning

The particulars are going to be a challenge - creating standards for the ads, appropriate pricing, etc. This could be a full time job in and of itself.

But there is still the problem of people buying individual 16s and sticking up a for sale sign or leaving a box that looks like litter. It's just as unsightly.

But at least we have a start

I hear very few reports of sexual ageplay on the grid, and much of that seems to have moved on on gone way underground. I still see the "legal" casinos, but not like casinos at their hey day.

Mari

Forget the licences altogether, run it as part of your business. It seems to me to be a bad business idea to let others benefit from your "webspace". Issuing licences is asking for the current abusers to benefit from the income they have already made and legitimise themselves. This is somewhat akin to allowing the bootleggers to open distilleries, breweries and bars at the end of prohibition.

Linden labs should do the advertising themselves, on Real World advertising models ( size and location of billboards, and "appropriate" content) with local residents having a say in the location of, or removal of said billboards on a given sim. As the largest individual landowner your revenue stream would be sufficient to allow this.


A reasonable method of dealing with this is to disallow the sale of parcels smaller than 512m. Allow people to subdivide as they do already but "grey out" the option to set a parcel for sale if it is smaller than 512m.


Just an idea and maybe not a popular one, but you should consider getting rid of the "Free Tier" on land below 512m altogether. This would allow a lot of small parcels of land currently sat with prim trash on them to revert to yourselves and prevent a lot of the land griefing from happening in the first place. Instead make the tier on land upto 1024m the base payment all landowners pay. In most of these cases it's the "free" aspect that encourages them to try to exploit their neigbours in the first place. The "hey it's not costing me, so I can just sit and wait for a mark to come along" attitude would be knocked on the head by this. I can understand the "free teir" band when there was still "first land" available, giving newcomers a chance to get their foot on the ladder. But as that has long gone there is no reason for the lower band to still exist.

Add this one to the list.

There is some Ad land in Davros the ad is gone but it's now for sale at L$5600 32 sqm I own the land on 3 sides of it and there is linden land on the other side. now if he/she has it in there bloody head that I am going to buy it for that there bloody dreaming!!

Bloody hell!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I hear ya. I fully expect that all the ones I deal with in my home region will do everything they can to "stick it to me", since I have been a VERY LARGE pain in their backsides over this issue.

More power to 'em. They can keep paying tier on idle, useless microplots until the cows come home for all I care. I'll still pay the same rate I always have, which is about twice what land is going for now (L$10/sqm), but that's it.

We have been fighting this battle for too long!
My only question is what is the time frame for implementation?
again, Thank You!

Businesses in SL have a legitimate need to advertise. Consumers in SL have a legitimate need to find the goods and services they want to buy. The trick has always been to separate the legitimate from the illegitimate.

Licensing advertising networks is a great way to start. While it won't end all land extortion and related nonsense, it will make it much harder for extortionists to pretend they're in the advertising business.

We need a better way to advertise and find products and services. Search is crippled by the lack of serious browsing and filtering capabilities. I suspect this is being worked on now, since if I've thought of it, someone else must have, too.

I have a few ideas for advertising rules:

1. a) One license per RL company or live individual. If a person owns more than one company, all such companies must function under the same license.
b) Those seeking an advertising license must provide RL identification, including banking or credit card information. The account provided must be in the name of the license-seeker.
c) RL businesses seeking an advertising license must provide proof of RL business registration, including proof of ownership.
d) When a group hold an advertising license, all group members must meet the identification requirements in 1-b. Any violation by the group may result in action against all group members.

With this change in policy, advertising in SL has become a privilege. If you want that privilege, you must prove accountability, the same as in RL.

No, it won't stop groups of people getting together to misuse the system. It will just make it easier to identify and ban them - as actual people, not as alts. Sounds like a win to me.

2. Deceptive use of Search listings to direct people to advertising plots should be grounds for immediate and irrevocable loss of the advertising license. Let people list ad sites in Search, but only as ad sites, not as stores, events, or land for sale. Search spam eats valuable resources, not just in database time, but in user time as well.

3. No spam. Identical ads must be more than 60m apart in any direction. Some areas contain a large number of mid-sized plots, each containing a large cube advertising the same thing, again and again. This is both ugly and uninformative. The advertiser made his point with the first ad - having more in the same tiny area, which perform the same function, is just silly.

4. People have the right to peaceful enjoyment of their property. (I just stole this one from RL.) Thus, advertisers do not have the right to build advertisements that disturb the peace or make the area any uglier than local builds do already. In other words, any resident can have an ugly build through lack of taste or talent, but advertisers don't get to make it worse.

5. Advertisers do not have a special right to an unobstructed view INTO their properties. If the neighbors find it necessary to put up screens, the advertiser needs to negotiate with the neighbors.

It's obvious that this new move will not end the nonsense we've all had to put up with. Land extortion and visual griefing have many manifestations and many reasons, and can't be dealt with by a single stroke. But it gives a way to separate legitimate businesses from the other kind.

Once this is finalized, it will take a firm commitment from LL to ensure that the desired purpose is achieved. There's going to be a lot of cleaning up to do. (This sounds like fun. Need help? )

finally got around to show some action instead of being all talk wtg thats one more point towards more respect for the linden community

It will be so nice to see the Mainland not look like a Junkyard!! Can you get rid of the ban lines while your at it? I see why in RL we need HOA's. I think SL needs then as well.

This is fantastic news, we were lucky not to have too many of these things in our sim, but some neighbouring sims were looking really bad.

I can turn the draw distance up again now yay!

So glad to hear of the demise of the random Ad Farm, there's been too many blots on the SL landscape for too long.

I am glad to hear about these planned changes. I look forward to October 1st. I am glad there are people making sure LL is aware of any loopholes or workarounds that they might encounter.

For the requirements of licensed advertisers I would suggest that LL go so far as to design the actual billboards themselves and hand those out to the advertisers. Give them one prim face that they can texture. No scripting, sounds, lights, fullbright, particles, flexi, alpha.. etc.

all residents should have the same rights in world.
as much I don't like the viral ad farms, at least the playing field is even.

the introduction of "licensed advertisers" concerns me.

how can this be anything other than a license to "print" money for a lucky few?
who decides which lucky few get the license?
what criteria will be used to pick the lucky few?
what control will residents, who have to put up with the ads, have over the licensed few?

just sounds like something that can be easily abused to me.
jobs for the boys...

if running of ad farms is unwanted then it should be banned for everyone.

IMHO advertising should be self promotion (advertising on the same land as a commercial enterprise & for that commercial enterprise) only. everything else can go where it belongs - in the classifieds

I only have to say that I am extremely happy to witness the ban on ad farming.

Ad farming and ad farmers' delinquent behavior were the two reasons why I ran away from mainland regions after trying to make a nice home and a nice store in two different plots that cost me quite a lot of money in 2007 and seeing my work ruined by eyesores that those delinquents had the bravery of calling ads.

I still believe Jack should have acted earlier on but this iron fist decision is necessary and urgent at this point in time. It shows without the slightest doubt that if you allow people to be too free and too creative, some of them will abuse their freedom at the expense of others. A government and government policies should be there to allow people to be free without hindering other people's freedom, especially when the government is financed by tax payers' money, and Linden Lab must have finally realized that in the context of SL it must regain control of this world.

Remember, newbies listening, that LL USED to be more active in setting a direction for this virtual world (2003-2005), but at one point it decided to be more passive because the usual vocal minority (and a few companies) claimed LL was TOO MUCH in control and they wanted to do "business". LL assumed this would allow SL to thrive but in the long run it only proved profitable for those who took advantage of the total lack of rules and limitations.

At any rate, the time has come for Linden Lab to govern the mainland the way it used to do in the early days: suggesting policies and submitting them to the residents' vote. This is the spirit of early SL and I am quite happy it is being revived!

LL has learned a valuable lesson: it was a mistake to allow business to develop without a hint of a policy in 2006. Some genuine individual businesses and prospective corporate presences were scared away by reckless anarchists who were allowed to persevere in their delinquencies, thus giving the impression LL was supporting them with their lack of action.

Next steps I suggest to be used throughout the mainland: zoning, severe building codes (as was the case for Boardman and a few other Linden-sponsored regions), high fines for littering public places, compulsory age verification and a strict policy regarding land flippers, so we do not have to see another goodwill project like Bay City go down the drain because of building-sized "land for sale" cubes!

Sandor

Good idea!

Great announcement, good to hear something being done about the leeches.
I hope enforcement will follow when they come back with their loophole solutions.
The only real way is to make owning small plots in multiple sims unprofitable unless they earn their keep by legitemate use, hence you would only keep a vendor on a 32x16 if it was making enough sales to cover it's cost.
Start with a minimum ownership per sim of say 32m then ramp it up every month till you reach 128, 256 or 512. If people want to own small plots to put backup servers on, ask a friend to host it on your land, rent 16m from someone even. Wanting a 16m in every sim for scambots to scan the sim isn't a legitimate use.
I hope the licences cost money, so anyone using them is serious about actual advertising, not the fake ads on most signs at the moment or ads for companies without permission.
If people want neon advertisments in busy places let them rent permission to put them on other peoples land if they don't own enough land there to be considered a sim resident.

I am very pleased as to the move, we were afraid advertising would be completely banned, as a pre-emptive strike and to consider our paths we started getting rid of our locations already, development of better system is starting in the meantime, and basicly the following few weeks will decide whether we continue to offer the only
COMPETITIVE, RESPONSIBLE AND USED AD NETWORK IN WORLD

Yes, as per our market research, we had the largest market share by different advertisers, one of the largest market share of total locations and reach. And this were achieved by being responsible, and no spamming of A LOT of ads per location, by having the NICEST billboard designs there is!

Infact, our billboard designs were SO popular that we often received requests to sell the designs, people wanted to use them as houses, deco items, etc etc. We never sold a single copy to 3rd parties.

So popular designs that many networks spawned out of nowhere, trying to mimick our designs, lately one new spawned up which had so closely same design that before textures loaded i occasionally MYSELF thought it was ours and were like "what the heck, i don't got here anything, especially next to an spam farm!"

However, i am afraid this policy will not compete the issue of MICRO PARCEL FARM EXTORTION which is the bigger problem right now.

Imho, it's ok that there is small 16-32 parcels, but an 512sqm, or even 256sqm turned all to 16s is just too much and way heavier problem right now, i see those very often, but the old tradition ad farms not really. The earlier policy defeated the tip of the iceberg.

Anyways, what i hope to see is advertising to continue, with a few networks that have responsible management like ours, good neighbourhood policies, and tries their best to give back to the community: we owned pathways, even parks at one time, the earlier policy dropped a lot of our revenues however, advertising revenues even at maximum are rather limited in SL, due to the constricted size of SL. You earn about 6L$/billboard/month, and like ours, we capped the exposure per sim, even at 4 billboards per mainland sim, and assuming 3000 mainland sims the maximum PROFIT is around 72,000L$/Month. Therefore, you cannot profit from the advertising itself that much.

Why that low profit margin? To be price competitive with the best other opportunities there is, our network achieved for around 30-40% of advertisers way better cost to effectiveness ratio than Google AdWords can even at MINIMUM. In practice, all of our advertisers had well better Cost To Effectivess ratio than google adwords. That was one of our competitive advantages for RL business advertisers. which we had quite a few over the time, you'd be surprised, we might not got Coldwell Bankers nor Nokia... Well infact, i spoke about it with one Nokia's guy who were interested but it never realized.

I'm waiting to get my hands on a license!

Ty Linden Lab, this is first policy in a very very very long time i wait for with a positive mindset, and which actually might turn out that our business gets stronger rather than way weaker!

HOW much does this license cost, ??? and you said it will be a limited number of them on the mainland..when that number is capped...does that mean there are no more advertisement possibilties for new and 'honest advertising residents???? More info is needed, more depth....

Overall I think this is a great thing..the blog from Jack Linden is very ambigious, so I think when all info you would be presented the list of this thread would greatly be smaller.

Its great to know that LL is out there working trying to improve the SL experience..I was afraid soon that the mainland depreciation would drive all residents to Private regions, making Mainland a sandbox type experience, and anything of value happening on Private estates..

Though Im interested in the fees of this licensing, if any?

Thankyou