Feedback on Ad Farm post

it wasn't me.

Awesome! Thank you Linden Labs for getting it right.

Let me guess. They will just not use networked devices for their ad farms now thus circumventing the intent of this policy. Apparently, from the wording in the blog post, non networked ad farms are still OK. It just means the ad guilds will have to device a clever way to distribute ads. Perhaps by a bot that travels around and as it passes an ad the ad is given the next advertisement to display.

The policy needs to address ad farms period whether networked or not networked.

Wonderful news.
In answer to the question posted in the blog--I think ads should not be a light source, should not be full bright or set to glow.

There were some suggestions to restrict ads to roadside locations.

I don't think that's a good idea: There are really many sims on mainland with roads going through them. And a lot of them have a very nice landscape. Many residents own land on those sims. Shall all their land be devaluated at once, and be worth zero linden? Only because there is a road on the sim? Will residents on those sims get refunds then from lindenlab? For their worthless land they paid hundreds of US$ for ..?

And remember, linden roads are completely different from RL roads. Ads are along the road in RL because everybody sees them there. Who does in SL? In SL ads make sense for example in clubs or shops, where many people are. When you want to find products in SL, you use the search engine and don't fly along roads.

A few ad poles, say four, can already ruin a whole sim and devaluate the land.

Wether along a roadside or not.

Moin,

I dont think that network ad farms are the problem, I know a lot of clubs who want to have them inside their parcel, so they cant be such a big problem outside of your parcel. Those ad farms at least have a working bussiness model, and use the land for it. The main problem are land cutters from whom the ad farmers buy. The simple solution imho would be:

You can only buy a parcel less than 512sqm in a Simulator, if you already own a at least 512sqm in same simulator. People owning such a parcel at the moment of this policy change would have one month to sell their parcel. Else it would go on auction, where only people owning a parcel in that simulator can bet.

I'm living in Apoda, in the middle of old grassland. I've seen that the method of land cutters changed. They just cut the land into a 448sqm parcel and 4*16sqm parcels. They now keep those parcels empty and either not for sale or at high price for some time, and suddenly drop the price of the bigger parcel, so it appears in search land at a top position. The idea is of course to sell both the big and the small parcels same time. I eat that toad once, because it gave me access to the 128x128 point, but you can see same tactic directly next parcel again. If you dont buy the parcel the next land cutter will do it, and cut it into 384sqm and 4*16sqm parcels. An other even more ugly example is at the south eastern road side of Apoda, where land cutters lured a newbie into buying a 521sqm parcel. The parcel is in fact only 448sqm in size, joined with an other 64sqm parcel on the other side of the road. In between a Linden road with 15 small parcels of 16sqm to 32sqm each. Those parcels are perfectly worthless for adfarms, as they are totally hidden by trees planted on the Linden road and behind them. They would be a good place to hide easter eggs, but not for adfarms. So the only business model there is land cutting itself.

Linden licensed adfarms are only a cure for one symptom, but they wont fix the cause. I would even say that they make the problem worse not better. Currently those land cutter parcels are empty, because its not allowed to sell a parcel with ugly looking objects for extreme price. Licensing adfarms would bring the ugly looking ads back to land cutter parcels.

If Linden is able to do some simple database search, or even have a data warehouse solution for it, they could track those land cutters as easily as they could track so called adfarms. The group of land cutters are less than two dozen players, imho. Perhaps just map to them, and talk to them. They are not bots, as I know from first hand experience.

ciao,Kephra

Lindens,

If I opt to display google ads on my web page, that is my decision. In exchange for displaying the google advertisements, google pays me some amount of money, which I then use to defer the $109/month server fee. It works out good for my users (I'm not forcing them to pay me anything), and it works out good for me (I get some revenue to offset the server fee), and it presumably works out well for the advertisers (who get some click-to-buy ratio).

The second life adfarms have nothing in common with that, at all, and need to be gone entirely -- not merely licensed. The parasitic leaches that run them are slimy little toads, who want to profit off of other resident's efforts. I pay 1/2 tier land fees right now, and most of that is from trying to prevent the slimy little toads from getting any adjacent land. I've failed a few times, because I'm not on all the time, and in some cases I own land on all 4 sides of a freaking advertising square. Under terms of service, I'm limited in what I can do to get rid of them, though.

If they want to profit off my land, they can ask me. I pay Linden a lot of money -- more than my dedicated server costs me -- for my land. If they want to make a compelling push for me to allow their advertisements on my land, I'm willing to listen.

But why should a useless leach contributing nothing to my region except for advertisements (sometimes out of the regions rating, as it is a PG region) be allowed to profit from my -- and others -- work while contributing absolutely nothing?

It isn't an issue of licensing them -- its an issue of disallowing all parcels whose sole purpose is to advertise.

Very good post and point, Sylhouette.

It is one thing for neighbors to support one another via attracting people to the sim with their creations. It is a much different thing for someone to be a parasite on other's success, returning nothing to the common good.

Bravo!

OMG as all this notices on the LindenBlog will make Mainland better than estateland no adds, and special zones........
Poor estate owers.. )

I'm not sure if this is useful Jack, but here's what little experience I have with my estate:

1) NCI AdNode is allowed. This can be found around amphitheatres and NCI-related helper material in Nova Civis Caledon, an "NCI" area where one would naturally expect to find it. There are also some, I believe, well inside a lecture hall in another region, visible to attending students but not visible from the outside. So far: zero resident complaints across one year.

2) There will be a "University Sponsors" greenhouse in "Oxbridge University" - an educational facility for new residents (not quite open yet). Sponsors will be allowed a single texture on pillars among the plants, inside the greenhouse. So far basically everyone who has seen it has agreed this was tasteful and a good way to recognise sponsors. The main idea is that the advertising isn't noticeable from a distance.

3) Caledon has many telehubs; roughly 1/2 of our regions have them, and they very loosely emulate the function of tiny infohubs on the mainland. I allow 'events only' signs by them - phantom, on the ground, allowable until the time of the event (generally a couple weeks). This has been a constant, frustrating thing to balance, and I do get some complaints - but also, they are a vital community service.

Ideally I'd have a bulletin board at each hub for people to use instead, but I didn't predict the need in the older regions. I settle complaints by simply removing the occasional sign that is too large, blocking access, or just plain visual blight in some way or other. Residents near these hubs have been pro-active, and have started to erect community bulletin boards where my own planning wasn't very good two years ago. From this, I'd suggest promotion of infohub-like areas. I still remember fondly the days when I went to all the old mainland telehubs to renew my free West Trade ads every two weeks. I heard some of these Linden-created ad displays were back, and I can tell you that they were decent and effective then, particularly for unheard-of startup businesses.

4) Intentional advertising - I've actually tried to *encourage* larger signage in cities, at least proportional to what you would find in urban reality, but residents were not keen on doing it! They stuck to fairly small signs. Perhaps an odd bit of data, but interesting nonetheless.

5) Generally, people 'get it' quite well; there is little need for fancy explanations and people respect the overarching goal.

I wish you very well with your mainland efforts!

Big Thank You, Linden Lab! Best announcement EVER!

One more suggestion to go along with restrictions like no glow, no lightsource, no particles, etc...

NO TEMP ON REZ!!!

(we now return you to your regularly scheduled argument already in progress)

Great News!! Thanks for doing the right thing Jack. This will make SL a much better experience for many many avatars.

No--Let me clarify. NCI does not--and never has--advertised on adfarm towers.

NCI runs a system called AdNode where we sell ads at our campus locations to help us fund operations. Our ads are displayed only at our campuses, and our billboards face in towards the campuses. The billboards are single sided, less than five meters tall, and only target the users at NCI. The land they are on is part of our campuses and is never sold.

We began what evolved into AdNode after Linden Lab discontinued payments to instructors back in December 2006. We continued to pay our teachers what LL had been paying them (500L$ a class hour). Currently AdNode accounts for about 1/3rd of NCI's revenue.

Here are some examples:

Front of an AdNode Billboard:


Back of an AdNode Billboard:


NCI Beach Classroom With AdNode Billboards




NCI operates twelve InfoNodes located near or adjacent to Linden InfoHubs (with more to come). These are "mini-NCIs" that offer information, free stuff, links to places to learn, etc. Despite their prime locations, we do not have AdNode billboards at these InfoNodes.

NCI InfoNode Mahulu


NCI InfoNode Ambat

Zoning can help with the ad problem. In Hawaii, billboards aren't allowed at all. Even in the city. Signs placed on commercial venues must follow strict rules.

In SL, I think any type of advertising in a Residential zone should be forbidden but possibly allowing some advertising under special circumstances with tight controls.

Advertising in Commercial zones would be allowed but still must abide by regulations.

My personal experience with mini plots for ad farming was strictly for extortion purposes. The ads were in the middle of the land I purchased..spinngin..large..annoying. The only way to remove them would be to purchase the land. The price--$9995 Lindens for 32 meters. or $4995 for 16 meters. The only purpose for ads with those prices on land where the average price is $7-12 Lindens per meter is blatant extortion.
My neighbor and I own most of a sim together, and we were pleased when Linden banned the ads themselves. The land reamained at extortion price, with ban lines, intentionally ruining the continuity of the valley.
I amnot popposed to making money in SL. The problem is that Linden was waiting for supply and demand to regulate the prices. That failed. Too many people are in it for too much money, and to heck with the rest of us.
I agree with the business owners who want to break their plots smaller than 128 meters for the purpose of stores and stalls. Restricting in this manner is wrong.
A parameter pertaining to prevailing prices of land in the sim, associated with the size of the plots would be better. Not certain of the formula. But you can see that $9995 for 32 meters is not for profit..it is for extortion. A situation like that is obvious and should be dealt with. How?
Take the land? Force a sale at sim prices? I dont know. What do the rest of you think?
One thing is certain--ad farms for extortion must be dealt with harshly.

This is great news! However, licensing is undesirable and will be problematic. A license should require:

** a minimum land parcel size of of 512 sqm. No more tiny ad parcels such as 16, 32 or 64 sqm
** ad object location permitted only in the exact center of the 512 sqm land parcel.
** minimum separation of 96m between ad-licensed land parcels
** a maximum ad object size at 5m x 5m x 5m
** only one 5x5x5 ad object per land parcel
** the ad object must be no more than 1m above ground level
** no ad object stacking
** stationary, non-moving ads only
** ad object texture may be set to "bright" but no "light" generation by the ad object
** chat-silence and audio-silence for all ads.

Thank you!

I don't really have an issue with overpriced microparcels that have nothing on them. It's not my land. I might like to have it, but if it isn't mine and I can't afford it and it isn't hurting me, then oh well...let it be.

I don't really have an issue with clocktowers, I would rather they not be in my back yard but I don't feel the need to put up a wall if they are.

I do have an issue with glow, with particles, with temp rezzers, and with porn ads on hugely overpriced microparcels because they are not advertising, they are attempts to extort. Like someone said earlier it isn't advertising really that is the issue. It is the people who attempt to extort by pretending to advertise.

I really hope that when LL looks at an ad group before licensing, they look at the content of their ads, and at the way they have used advertising in the past. I realize that SL is an adult environment, but if I want to see porn then I would like to have to go find it, not have it slap me in the face every time I walk outside my door. We don't need ads about 'girls who want to..' whatever with rl pictures on them. We just don't.

I'm particulary happy about this because of an ad tower that sprouted in front of my store yesterday....an advertisement for pictures you can buy to assist in self gratification (with rotating sample pictures on the ad, of course). The lot (32sq) was for sale for only L$25000. I AR'd it and a neighbor did as well and it went away. Today it came back, only the land wasn't for sale. I AR'd it again as offensive, so did my partner and it went away shortly afterward. THANK YOU for that and I hope you really look at ad content before you issue licenses....don't let these people slap us around anymore.

Yes a step in the right direction, I am trying mainland for the first time, as I normally live on private islands. The ad farming is horrid and no matter how beautiful you make a home, to look around and see this is so very discouraging! So yes, please do something about this as fast as possible, thanks.

Yay! I've spent thousands of Lindens to buy up overpriced little ad plots to merge into an attractive and "normal" sized plot (1024). It's nice to finally have some help from LL.

Advertising is advertising- one persons pretty is another persons ugly. To define otherwise would be impossible.

If LL designates specific ad areas for these ppl to advertise in, we'll know that they are the legitimate/licensed ones as well as WHERE they are....and can choose whether or not to buy land in and around them.

Leave the rest of mainland ad free, and stand alone parcels under 512 unable to be built upon and we'll finally be rid of these 'ad spammers' who try to talk as if they arent as much part of the problem as the 'farmers' or 'cutters'.

i am finding it impossible to get excited or too hopeful about this.
i reckon this will soon slip into an idle state, the land extortionists will alter their tactics, and it will soon enough be business as usual.

Thanks Lindens for starting to taking care about this problem. I agree with the other posts that mention the land extortion problem. In fact I think much ad farming have the purpose of extortioning the neighbors so they buy their land at the prices they want. For example in my case I have a neighbor that have big cubes that say "ad farming is bad"...the cubes are big and stacked high enough so ppl down my store can look up and see them. Obviously the message "ad farming is bad" is a total sarcasm with all the purpose of motivate me to buy their land to get rid of them...they divided their land in small pieces and put all sort of scripted thiings there and some that make a lot of noise with the purpose of annoying me and my clients (rockets, fountains, airplains)...

This is not a rare situation Lindens, is something that is happening all around mainland, the question is...are you going to work only with cases that are strickly ads or are you also going to do something to solve the problem of ppl using "ad farm like stuff" to extortion neighbors to buy land????????

PLEASE HELP US ON THIS!!!! I cant sell my land at a good price right now because that situation...and Im not the only one suffering this. Hope you read us and do something. Thank you very much!

Please don't buy them if they are overpriced, as you are just fueling the problem. You pay their extortion prices, and they multiply in everyone else's backyards.

Did you know that one single 16sqm plot, bought at L$1495, will turn into 30-50 more elsewhere on the grid?

Don't feed the adnimals.

The deadline is October 1st right? How do you plan on enforcing this new law? Correct me if I'm wrong, but technically there's no way for you to stop people from these abuses with the current infrastructure. I mean, I still see plenty of casinos, ageplay, etc.. All of which are against the TOS. It's great that LL is taking the time to making new regulations, but if they can't be enforced what's the point?