Feedback on Ad Farm post

Totally totally chuffed to bits, thank you, cant wait for october 1st. Wonderful, i can watch the view from my home be cleared, it will be fantastic. I have had to put up with all the things mentioned, obscenity, notecard givers, shouting ads, spinning, floating, huge, high, tons of them spreading all over like a rash. All attempts by myself to try and negotiate with them have led to insults and ban lines.


THANK YOU LINDEN LABS.

This is the reason Adverts must be only allowed by Linden owned roadsides so neighbors that have one of these Adverts placed next to them can choose whether they blank it out or not, without affecting the advertisers visability.

I came upon the blog post late and I've tried to read as many posts here as possible, but not all, so I may be repeating a few points - forgive me

1) Yes generally in favour of getting rid of ad farms

2) I have at times odd little parcels of mainland - minimum size would be a pain

3) I too sometimes split parcels into small lot-lets (lol) for the benefit of renters (see 2)

4) Zoning - I have a business, our apartment and a sandbox to play in on the same parcel. How do you handle that? And no the sandbox is not just for business

5) If a build on a parcel is just plain huggly but a labour of love by the builder - what then? (yes and guilty as charged lol)

6) I have a pet memorial garden on a small parcel - if it gets rezoned as commercial (eg) will I be offered an equivalent plot to relocate to? Same with my other gardens. And if so will residents who have asked me to place a marker/photo/message there be automatically redirected?

7) Will this apply only at ground level? I mostly build around 300-500m

legit spinning 'for sale' signs over land - can we have certainty that the map will be updated in a reasonable time to show parcels for sale? I've waited days some times for it to show up and while loath to put up one of those spinning signs i understand why people do. Give us tools that work and they will fade away

Overall its a step in the right direction but a little more thought needs to go into it. Which I guess is where this thread comes in. Good start Jack but dont ruin the anarchic ethos of the mainland - at least the parts those of us who live here enjoy

cheers

sirhc

Best news I've read on the blog for a long time...

I just want to repeat my suggestions for Adverticing:

1. Ads are allowed on own land in connection with own business
- Shops
- Entertainment of any kind
- Galleries etc
Note: Ugly ads (visual spamming) will not attract ppl to places
2. All outdoor ads can be max. 5 meter higher than any structure on the land
- no light, rotation, flashes etc
3. A general rule that states that ads may not be in OBVIOUS contrast to the surroundings
- to avoid visual spamming
4. A rule stating that if 50 % of the neighbors complain (or something like that, maybe 75%) an ad has to be re-made or re-moved

Well, that's all...

I was thinking to buy a parcel inside bay city, but then, I got there, nobody is respecting any kind of building code. Everything looks messy and sometimes very noobish.

Never mind the high price of the land even the object factor is 2.0. AND yes I was wondering on what kind of servers are the bay city regions running because being on the old continent of SL they seem not be connected to class 5 machines.

How about if the licences are auctioned annually?
Everyone gets a chance to bid up to whatever fee they consider sustainable.

How many licences?
How to cater for both mega-businesses and small startup?
Perhaps there could be a banding system, where a licence permits up to x advertising locations.





I like Shenga's suggestions a few posts above, particularly the need for RL verification of identity to LL.

Right... and in addition to what they should not contain, maybe some thought about what they *should*: I'm thinking that, if this licensing thing is done correctly--that is, if the ad facilities are really welcomed by all residents--then they should host a feed of community service ads, along with whatever commercial advertising the licensees may sell.

As it is now, of course, there's no worse step a charity or community group could take than to use one of the existing ad networks, even if the adfarmer payed the charity for permission to use their name and textures. (Witness RFL's unfortunate misstep earlier this year, quickly reversed after resident outcry.)

But it doesn't have to be that way: If in-world display advertising were not the scummy, sleazy, exploitive scamfest it is now, residents might come to view the ad content favorably. Then it would be possible for some percentage of the ad content to be community service announcements, without besmirching the good names of those groups.

Oh I forgot one thing - if I have a 16m odd piece I need to get rid of because my next planned purchase would put me over tier - so I decide to sell it to, say, the Arbor Project for a nominal fee. How does that get dealt with if it sits there for a few days or weeks?

More than that, I think. The ads really need to be on Governor Linden-owned land only, with one or two sides exposed to protected land. And the ads need to texture only one or at most two sides of a prim. So the license is to use ad facilities owned by LL, on sites chosen by LDPW. They need to be a planned feature of Linden infrastructure content.

And there should be no further market for adplots.

This sounds like just the sort of thing we all needed to make a better mainland

I like the point you make about related forms of exploitation, the linden commitment to improve the Mainland and using a common sense approach to dealing with problems.
This method should help to control any and all abuses being carried out, whether on small or large parcels.

Really its all, that was ever required, Lindens to stand up and say look we know what your doing, it's wrong now stop it or face the consequences.
We know you are aware who is running exploitive forms of business in SL, now for the sake of the mainland we need Lindens to enforce this new approach strictly to control the current forms of abuse using loopholes.

Jack

Can I take as read that cutting land into small odd shapes and placing silly prices on them will be seen as an immoral act and treated as an offence accordingly whether these plots have been around for some period of time or not?

Can we assume that owning land and installing scripts that shout or create sound effects to be heard in and disturb neighbors plots will be treated as an abuse and form of harassment?

That the use of banlines on plots below 256sqm is a form of abuse, or any plot that is up for sale?

I will look forward to seeing this new approach by linden labs in action, it should help to limit neighbor to neighbor disputes aswell with Lindens using a common sense approach to mediate between arguing factions.

Will this mean we will see far more Lindens hovering around the mainland, being more involved with what is happening on a day to day basis, I hope so it would be nice and very welcome, as long as common sense remains the focus of all decision making

Fantastic news. Can't wait to see it implemented. Now let's see some action on land extortion.

Congratulations on taking steps to adress this problem. This move by LL is very posotive indeed.

The use of Advertizing or any other structure which doesnt fit with the surrounding area to try and force people to either pay a very high price for that parcel, or to sell thier own parcels for a very low price needs to be stopped.

If you indeed go down the lines of licencing advertising then one of the biggest criteria would have to be its suitability in regards to the surrounding area.

Eg. If an area is largeley residential or non sexual comercial then sex trade adverts are not apropriate. In an area with strip clubs and brothals i see no problem with that. For any advertising to work it has to be targeted properley.

Regarding the small parcels issue. I have a 32 parcel. I use it to get round the auto return for SLX, Apez and Onrez machines.

Essentially you cant limit parcel sizes, this move is very posotive, and so long as the advertizing licence has a clause that the adverts must be apropriate to the area they are in, this sounds like a fantastic move.

All advertisements should reinforce the illusion of a real world created in SL.
Adds may be pretty or ugly, but no illusion breakers please.
More specifically:
Over sized signs out of scale are bad.
Point light is bad.
Flashing point light is very bad.
Full bright is not good when used on big strong colored prims
The same thing can be said on Glow.
Full bright and glow can increase the real world illusion when used in small doses and with taste.
Floating and spinning objects should be banned if they do not resemble what you do find in the real world.

I applaud that ad Farming will no longer be permitted on the Mainland

Great news! I can't wait until this happens. I've wanted to own some land for ages, but did not want to live somewhere full of yucky adverts and ban lines. One thing I would say is that sometimes the land barons are worse than the ad farmers. For example, Bay City was lovely, until land barons bought up loads of parcels and filled them with 'land for sale' signs. This too, is a form of advertising and some of their adverts are just as bad as the ad farm ones. It is not just the network advertisers and extortionists who can ruin a sim with adverts. I don't know how you can fix that particular aspect of the problem, but at least getting rid of the farms is a step in the right direction.

Our group, quite happily based, then a blasted Ad Farm appears next door, dominating every view, we decided to move, and luckily found a place we are all happy with, shame this ruling did not come earlier, it would have saved a lot of expense.

But the main thing it is for general good

Jack Linden posted this statement

As for related forms of exploitation, yes we're aware of that problem. We've made a commitment to improve the Mainland and activities that clearly go against that will be dealt with too. Just as any resident estate owner makes choices about what they deem reasonable on their own estate, we will look at each situation and edge case and make the common sense decision. We have that discretion; if we believe a given activity is reasonable and a positive benefit for the Mainland then we can choose to allow it. Will people try to get around the rules? That seems likely, but again we can deal with that, particularly if we feel it is harmful to the health of the Mainland as a whole.





Jack

Still pinching myself to make sure I am not dreaming!

Your last post sounds like real efforts are going to be made with the mainland

This could mean the start of bright new future for many users.

Everyone feeling distrust in LL and Jacks statement please give them a chance this mention of a common sense approach being taken, shows the intention of the Lindens to use thier ultimate power to control all forms of abuse and harassment accross the mainland.

This should correct not only the current situation but any future actions made by the unscrupulous.

Give Jack and LL a chance to stand by their words and pray that things improve accross the board this one post actually offers more hope than the new advertising rule itself.
Imagine a virtual world where you can report an obviously corrupt form of practice and the Lindens will look at it and take action to stop it



As for advert sizes I think they should be ground based and no bigger than 8mwide by 9m high in a billboard type stylepreferably the billboadrs could be linden designed to match a number of different sim themes that should stop any poor designs being placed around.

Also sticking to roadsides and Linden owned areas like info hubs seems a common theme of requests, but please don't allow a solid wall of them to be created along roads etc.

Again everyone Jack has stated they may not charge for the licenses, so this doesn't seem a cynical move to make extra income by LL. Lets give them credit when its due they seem to be making a positive step in the right direction here.



Jack finally a little off topic here, my group have a number of 16sqm plots with info boards placed on them about what to look for when buying virtual land and the problem of extortion, are these counted as adverts? when small plot extortion is stamped out in October what will be the best way for the group to dispose of these then obselete plots

Should we abandon them to LL to sort out or offer them to neighboring land owners individually?

This is more of a question how we as users can help LL best restore the mainland.

First: Great news that you will handle this problem! Banning the networks are a good start.

Advertising is of course essential; we want users to be able to find our shops and services.

We now have classified and parcel listings in search; these are very effective because they are targeted: People who actually want your kind of service is able to find it.

Less targeted adverts like the one found in magazines and newspapers in RL do not have their counterpart in SL. One could imagine LL selling limited adverts for inworld services on the official blog, og on the wait-for-login screen. They would be non-intrusive for the user, but would allow the nice aspects of being able to advertise for services no-one had thought to search for.

In RL, we also have these billboards and roadside signs. They are somewhat regulated, and by and large an accepted way of advertising.

So, outdoor billboards needs to be regulated in SL also, both the network ones and others. I would suggest the following simple rules that are easy to judge:

- Static only, no moving parts, changing colors or particle effects
- Must be ground connected, not floating in air
- Ads must be phantom
- Width of settext should not be greater than the largest dimension of the sign
- No active scripts, only inventory givers at touch
- No ads for non-pg services, even on mature land
- No sound effects
- Parcel sound is OK
- No pictures of RL persons
- Max height above ground: 4 meters. Reading height for a walking avatar.
- Total height and width of all ad prims also limited to 1/4 of the length of the smallest parcel border. So, a 4x4 would allow a cube of 1x1x1 meter on ground level. A 512 (16x32) parcel would allow a 4x4x4 cube of ads on ground level.
- Along borders of Linden protected land: At most 1/4 of the parcel border can be covered with signs.

What is a billboard / ad? One of the following:

Any object that resides on a parcel separate from any of the objects or parcels that are referred to by it. An object on the same parcel as that of the corresponding service/shop is not a billboard but a sign, and should not be regulated.

Any object on a parcel that is for sale or advertised as for rent, excluding those objects part of a rent (like houses and trees). This including for sale signs, rental boxes, estate agencies signs).


Cris.

Thank you for a wonderful step forward.

Suggestions for limits

1) Make ads permitted only on roadside plots, perhaps rented under licence from Governer Linden (those little zigzaggy bits along road edges that LL own) kept under 5-10 metres max, no glow, no noise, no emitters, no banlines etc. in a style that suits the surroundings (to be decided by landowners agreement maybe?) You could also insist that the face of any prim next to private land was set transparent... ?

2) Make the sale of 16m plots on the open market banned after a certain date - say 1 Jan 2009. This would stop people charging huge prices for them - as the date came closer they would have to reduce the price or risk having to abandon the plots and cut their losses, and surrounding land owners could afford to buy them.

I look forward to seeing a more beautiful mainland than i have seen in my two years on SL.


imogen

One of these Landbarons you mention in Bay City, is most likely actually an ex adfarmer who I cannot mention the name of but the surname is **edited** and the first name begins with a **edited**.
I know she removed all of her horrid adtowers from the mainland and invested in bay city a while back no doubt this destruction of bay city is partly down to her and similar greedy or inconsiderate landowners, hopefully Jacks common sense approach to dealing with this type of abuse, will put a stop to the mess in Bay City aswell.

oof,
so there's still people out there who are ignorant of the multiple legitimate uses of subdivided parcels.
i am too disappointed to start explaining here :[

and yay to removing ad farms!

This is a good and much needed start.I hope too that the ubiquitous red FOR SALE signs that litter the mainland will also get the treatment.Small discrete signs maybe ok but are really not needed as for sale shows in search and on the map.
Another eyesore and and pain are the stupid ban lines that riddle the place get rid of these too.

The problem with your analogy is that while you can do anything you want on your website, your google ads won't impact MY website or anyone visiting MINE.

If you can conceal adfarms on your property so they are only visible to your visitors do not impact or influence the quality of vr life of your neighbors, then great.

Carl Metropolitan re AdNodes Ah thanks for clarifying. I know what you mean now. These don't appear to fit the description of an adfarm property, just a sponsored property. They're well within your boundaries AND do not resemble adfarms in any way. This is no different than someone putting something up in a mall or - as mentioned - billboarded type ads you see at major resource landmarks. At most I see easy access to a license and you probably well meet advert requirements.

You have GOT to be kidding if you think that is a reasonable compromise.

Hopefully they will. My biggest problem with trying to clean up my corner of SL is not ad farms right now (although it is part of it) but 16x16 plots with ban lines and unrealistic pricing.