What about Bots?

Phil is actually wrong on this one to a degree, but maybe not as big a degree as others are suggesting. If you constantly hog resources you will get told to stop it. I was at an office hour once where someone was complaining that an unofficial French Orientation Island had been told they couldn't use an Openspace for such a purpose. This was obviously due to the nature of Openspaces.

However all sims share some resources and a sim that is hogging too many resources will at some point be investigated. Constantly having a 100 avatar party with live avatars is going to cause problems.

Having said that I've been to sims where sixty or seventy bots are not uncommon and nothing is done, so they're obviously not drawing the attention of LL in the resource stakes.

i'm not even really sure how bots work to say the truth lol..
i mean i have seen places that sold them a long time ago..and they looked like avatars..are these the same bots or are they just alt accounts?

I don't think I am wrong to any degree, Ciaran. If you pay for something, you have a right to the whole of that something. In the case of a whole sim, if LL finds that what you are doing with it has a significant impact on other things, then they can take it away, and you stop paying, since that's the nature of land in SL. But as long as I'm not doing anything like that with the sim, then I have a paid-for entitlement to everything that comes with the sim, including having its maximum number of avatars in it.

Bots need real avatar details so they are all alts. Hmm that sounds wrong, what I mean is a bot has to have login details like any other account.

They are just accounts like all other accounts. There are objects shaped like avatars for sale, but they are not bots.

ya these had to have that too but it sounded more like they could use the owners..it was a long time ago and i don't really understand why someone would pay for something like that when they could just make an alt..

at the same time though i have seen people i know pop up 40 bots right infront of me and i wonder how they can even be running a computer with that many accounts going at one time..
not one at a time popping on..i mean it was like they were being rezzed very quickly or something..
i don't know lol

Well you don't Phil, as some of us found out with Openspaces But I'll not sidetrack the chat with that example.

You don't have any rights, but unless you are causing huge problems nobody is going to say anything. Using all the available avatar slots on your own sim won't draw any attention from Linden Lab it seems, it's just a silly thing to do if you want to run a business.

There are programmes for sale that operate mutiple bots, such as camping bots. They log in on a thin client (one programme for all the bots) so they don't use anything like the memory that a viewer uses, and they can log them in very quickly.

You are only entitled to the things that you are explicitly granted title to. That's what "entitled" means. When it comes to someone else's property (and that sim is Linden Labs' property) you are only granted those rights that Linden Labs and the California commercial code grants you.

This is not a matter of opinion, this is a legal fact.

Then we disagree, Ciaran. It's my view that, if I go into a shop and pay for something, then I have right to that something - it isn't a privilege for me to possess it. Similarly, if I pay LL for a whole sim,and continue paying the rent for it, I have a right to the whole sim's worth of stuff - prims and avatar slots.

Do you have more than five accounts?

thank you..i just didn't understand what is was seeing..all i remember saying to myself at the time was..wow i wish i had her computer hahaha

You don't own a sim here Phil, that's the difference. Ownership grants you different rights. Your ISP can and often will limit your connection if you're downloading movies or any huge files on a regular basis.

As I keep saying, but you don't seem to accept, you are free to hold any view you wish. I hold the sensible view:- a whole sim can hold x number of prims and n number of avatars. I someone buys a mainland sim then s/he gets all of those with it - as an entitlement, because that's what was bought. It's perfectly simple.

We talk about owning land. We know we don't literally own it. We pay for something, and we have a right to it. That's all.

Umm Phil you are mistaking sensible with selfish.

Read carefully, you pay for a prim limit to use. Not a sim that can support X number of prims.

You don't buy avatar limits, you are told the hardware and software will support up to X number of avatars on the sim.

It's leased though, Linden Lab's marketing is spun to suggest ownership but it's a lease to all intents and purposes.

I know of no examples of full sim owners being admonished for their use of a full sim, but it is a possibility, sims do share some resources.

Several using open sims were given warning on misuse, and LL got so many of them they changed the rules due to the abuse.

Full sims are still multiple sims per server, so they do affect each other to a point.

And if people AR the full sims more and more, LL will take action. It's a catch 22, most don't AR them... so LL doesn't do anything about it.

there are certain types of ownership though also..
you have ownership over things like say..my pants..i have total ownership over the things i can take anywhere with me..i have ownership rights on things that i cannot..you can lose ownership rights but cannot lose ownership of something you totally own unless it is stolen or you have used the in a way of breaking the rules of owning them..if i strangle someone with my pants they will be taken away..
ownership rights to land in rl or here can be revoked..
services where ownership rights resided can be terminated or suspended..you don't lose ownership of the things you still own just the place the things you owned were stored or access..

i can own a diamond mind in Egypt but if i banned from flying or taking a ship there i may never see it..i still own a diamond mine unless the government says ..oh we need this or want it..

Don't be surprised if sometime soonish LL begin to admonish sim owners for 'excessive' use of a full sim.

From the Blog:
http://blog.secondlife.com/2009/01/15/q42008/#more-3487
"As we continue to refine our land offerings, we look forward to being able to support a lower priced full region offering along with a premium full region for higher load situations."

For which read "OpenSpace Drama (tm) comes to Private Islands.

In your view, I am talking selfish, but in my view I'm talking sensible.

Yes, I pay for a prim limit - *with the ability and entitlement to use it to the max*. Same with avatars.

Yes. We use the word "own" when we only rent/lease. But we do rent/lease the prim and av limits with the sim and, in my view, we have a right to use them to the max. If we use them in ways that have a significant impact on others, then the lease can be ended but, as long as the lease is in effect, the buyer has the right/entitlement to use them.

Same with OpenSims before the change.
Some people were using OpenSims *with the ability and entitlement to use it to the max*.
It didn't scale as more and more people did that.

The OpenSpace debacle was totally LL's fault. They set the limits and people bought because of those limits - they bought the whole package. Later, LL turned round and claimed that people were using the sims beyond what they were intended for *but they didn't close any down or tell anyone to lower their useage* as far as we know. LL held up their end end of the deal right up until the date that the package changes came into effect, and 'owners' continued to use what they had paid for - their entitlements - right up to the change.

That was wholly LL's fault, but they did hold up their end of the deal until the date when the changes came into effect. They didn't close any sims down, or even ask any individuals to lower their useage, as far as we know. They did what nobody has disagreed with - changed the numbers. After that, it's up to each individual to continue paying for the new package or not.