What about Bots?

So now it's an entitlement? That's definitely a better term than "right".

You would think. But actually they stop at 768m Above Ground Level. See http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2546. (It's critical, but Andrew seems not to like the idea of extending it to 4096m absolute elevation, so they're just blowing it off.)

It's a right. It's an entitlement. It's not a privilege.

Entitlement and right are not synonyms either.

It's not a right (eg, free speech).
It may be an entitlement (eg, welfare).
Whatever else it is, it's a privilege (eg, access to a resource/club grounds/etc).

I have a right to have what I've paid for. I have an entitlement to what I've paid for. You are free to disagree, of course.

Where is the list of things that were offered to you in return for payment?

As far as I can see the only grant of rights in the terms of service is the grant FROM us TO Linden Labs to use content we create on the SL grid. Since the grid is SL's property, the only rights WE have to it are the ones granted by the California commercial code.

Phil is certainly NOT entitled under the terms of service to run 40 bots on a single sim. In fact he's not entitled to run 40 bots on the entire grid. He's not even entitled to have 40 *accounts* to run those 40 bots under, because he's not *entitled* to more than 5 accounts per household.

Shh, that's cold hard facts.

Not the so called common sense , which is really what someone thinks is right. After all for some it's common sense that one should not be trying to manipulate traffic and search... and another sees it as common sense to use any means necessary to make a profit.

I think that "common" sense is that which *most* people would think is right/wrong.
The common sense in today's economic climate might be that "any means necessary to make a profit" is what got us into this mess.

Nope that's ethics


Not the so called 'common sense'

The real question is what if I only own half the sim? Does that give me the right to use half it's avatar quota?
And full number of avatars is fine as long as no more than 5 are yours.

It's good to see that everyone's finally come to an accord on the bot issue.

Uh oh... Linden Lab "owns" the sims... All you are doing is paying for the privilege to operate that sim. You never "bought" the sim you just paid a setup fee for that sim. Then you pay tier which is nothing more than you paying rent to use that sim. Linden Lab is privately owned business, you have zero rights other than copy and intellectual rights. You don't even own your own avatar! I suggest you research the TOS a little better. Go ask LL to ship you the sim that you think you own...

Your ability to ban/restrict and operate the sim/land you are paying tier on is nothing more than a privilege you are paying for that LL can and will take away whenever they see fit.

As for 5 accounts per person that seems to have gone away. It has been removed from everyplace I can find.


LL can make traffic boting a violation pretty simply and probably will soon. Phills argument would hold water if all the bots only had an impact on that land and that land only. But being it effects the entire grid and has an effect on search is where that privilege is being severly stretched.

There's still code in the sign-up process and elsewhere that attempts to implement it.

I already described the situation when a person doesn't own the full sim. Post #74 I think.

You are perfectly free to see what you want to see. As for me, if I pay for something, a sim for instance, then I am entitled to everything that comes with the sim - 15,000 prims and the full number of avs. I have a right to them because I pay for them. I have a right to keep other people out of the sim too. Those things come with the sim.

Similarly, if I pay for a bed, I have a right to have the bed - I am entitled to have it. My possession of it is not a privilege. If the bed is sold with contents, I have a right to have those contents because I poaid for them. It is not a privilege for me to have them. It's really a very simple concept.

You may consider yourself privileged that you can rez prims on your land, have avatars on it, and even prevent other people from entering it, but I consider I get what I pay for; i.e. it's not a privilege.

We covered that already. Literal ownership hasn't been mentioned, but we do talk about owning land is SL, even though we only rent land. LL may change things, in which case a sim owner will have a right to the new numbers, because s/he is paying for them.

Phil: you rent a sim that can support X number of concurrent avatars.

You are not told you have any privileges or rights to use all of those avatar slots


Mainly because every avatar is using more than just sim resources, they are an impact on the grid as a whole.

Mort. If I pay for a whole sim, then I pay for everything that comes with the sim, including the maximum number of avatars. E.g. I am entitled to hold a party and fill the sim avatars so that nobody else is able to enter it. It's entirely my business whether anyone else can enter it or not because that's what I pay for with a whole sim.

(I don't own a sim, incidentally. The "I" is just an example.)

you pay for a sim that can 'support' (key word) up to X number of avatars on it.

At no point in the terms are you told you have control of those avatar slots, read all the terms of land ownership

Being told something supports up to 100 avatars does not mean you can create a 100 avatars to fill it. It means the sim is set up to handle that many at a time.

Creating bots to fill it falls under CS and TOS in misuse of grid resources due to the additional load of all those avatars on the network as a whole.

LL owns the servers the person owns the land..you pay tier for them to maintain the server where your region or land is..
just like you would pay a service fee and setup fee's for a server for a website or gaming server.. you own the website and content of that site..all intellectual property and anything that is yours if you have proof it is yours..break the rules and you will lose your ability to run your website from their servers just as easy and you would access to an LL server..
being a premium account means you are paying for customer service which would mean you are a customer they are a service provider..buying a region makes you instant premium account..

land itself in the real world..we own the land there also..but it can be taken away just as fast and for no reason also..i'm sure we would get a reason but if the government wants or needs your land they will just get it from you..

we have owners rights to our land in rl and owners rights to our land in SL
and they can both be revoked at any time.. it happens all the time in both worlds..

really all it comes down to is this..LL has the server and software so we can create our own 3d projects ..more like having an online interactive 3d max studio..3D max studio can revoke your ownership too..so can any software company..but we own the software at the time..
we rent the server but own the land and any content we create that sits on their content that we can prove is ours..
but in reality nobody real owns anything at all RL or SL because it can all be taken away at any time
i'm no fan of bots ..i'm just sayin lol

It's a bit different from a year ago when we had the arguments about temp rezzers. Back then, people were arguing that temp rezzers were using prims that other land owners in the sim were entitled to - using other people's prims. Back then, other land owners in the sim were entitled to use the number of prims that their parcels allowed. Now it's all changed so that it's now merely a privilege for parcel owners to use the number of prims that their parcels allow. They are no longer entitled to them. I didn't notice the change, but I don't notice everything that happens

This discussion has nothing to do with bots, Mort. It's about avatars. See the "party" bit in my post.

As I said to to Argent, you are perfectly free to view it as you wish. My view is that, if I pay for a whole sim, then I am entitled to use the resources of the whole sim, including the maximum number of avatars and prims. My entitlement comes because I pay for it.

Read the topic title again phil

the discussion is about bots

And for the record : you pay for a privilege , you don't pay for a right ( a good example is driver's licenses are a privilege you pay for , not a right you are entitled to )

This part of the thread has strayed from the OP. This bit is about words - "right", "entitled to" and "privilege". That's all we're discussing in this bit of the thread.

I assure you, Mort, that if I pay for something, I sure as hell have a right to that something. If I go into a store and pay for a sofa, for instance, I have a right to possess the sofa. If SL borks and I don't receive it, I don't walk away thinking it was just a privilege if I'd got it. I contact the store owner to get what I've paid for. It may surprise you, but other people do that too. People actually believe they have a right to things that they pay for. Of course, you are free to be different if you prefer it.

Oh,and if I have driver's license, then I am entitled to drive on public roads. It's not merely a privilege. That entitlement continues until I lose the license.