Bad news of the day: They're thinking of merging the Teen Grid into the main one

You'd still have to make a business case for being part of whatever SL turned into. It's not the occasional flexy penis that makes business reluctant. It's the lack of a problem that business needs to solve that SL solves for them.

A little 1U "SL appliance" with 8 cores running a couple of sims and a baby asset server, that let businesses hold meetings under their control inside their firewall, might do the trick... but it's more likely that OpenSim will belly up to the plate with that solution before Linden Labs.

News stories about sexual predators targeting children on a merged grid would be better?

Hear, hear!

On a merged Grid I wouldn't be at all surprised to see adults spending *less* overall, as I feel the place would be far less attractive to grownups wanting to find other adult company - and that is nothing whatever to do with any x-rated content.

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Aes

Kids are already on the grid. I don't see the point here.

I just realized that the same topics are being discussed twice now in that thread...

Kids are not *supposed to be* on the main grid, and LL is not *legally liable* for them if they are because they are *trespassing* and *breaking TOS*.

Huge difference between that, and opening the floodgates with LL's blessing.

Also, any business that did not do their *own* marketing research up the wazoo before even thinking about opening a business in SL, but went instead by you tube clips, deserves to fail for sheer ineptitude.

There are RL businesses in SL already, at any rate. Count on a mass exodus if LL is unwise enough to turn SL into a giant version of "Home." That's my very biased opinion.

Kids would be banned from the adult sims as well, and LL would not be legally liable for them if they still go there (by creating an adult account) because they are trespassing and breaking TOS.

Yes and the AR system works so well...as would verifying who's at the keyboard at a given moment.

I need to stick to my original thought about not trying to discuss this with you; it seems to me you grab things out of thin air.

I think you can partially bring this down to how one sees SL itself. If you see it a a place, a world, where one lives, then it is reasonable to believe it should be open to all, with free comingling. On the other hand, you can see SL as a thing, a program or platform to be used for a variety of purposes. in which case you may see SL as something that should only be used by adults, regardless of content.

I believe it SHOULD be open to all, I don't believe it CAN be open to all in the current political and social climate.

I'd throw in LL's usual bungling mismanagement for the trifecta

Not legitimately, or openly.

LL is obviously concerned about avoiding a reputation as a haven for pedophiles. Merging the grids would not help those efforts. The whole purpose of a Teen Grid is to provide a safe online environment for children. Merging the grids makes that much more problematic, if not impossible.

If you block teens from the mature regions in SL, you only solve half the problem. The door is still open the other way as long as adults have access to the PG regions.

How do you assure a parent their child is safe in Teen SL? The only adults there are employees of Linden Lab.

How do you assure a parent that their child is safe on the main grid? You can't.

And maybe after allowing the kiddies in, LL will decide that human avatars are "generally more appealing" to the big businesses they want to see become the majority presence inside SL, so furry avatars like the one in your pic will be done away with just as all the "adult" stuff was.

Where did I say to do away with anything? Please point me to that quote of mine.

The only way to keep the kids safe is not to let them on the main grid, plus that is the only way to keep the adults (and the content they choose to experience) safe as well.

In order to make the grid safe, segregation on age is not an option. There is no way to actually age verify a person online. All they can do is say we were given data, and that data shows the person to be age appropriate based on that data. They can not say "well only Jon is using that account or information and is age verified." Because the data given can be Jon's but used by his cousin Billy.

This is why LL handles age issues so poorly.... they have to handle them with the anvil because of the legal and financial issues if they don't.

A merged grid would be a corporate ad lot that makes time's square look peaceful... with no content that doesn't toe the corporate interests (be it sex, furry, or even kid avatars)

In other words, the only way to really merge the grids... is scorched earth on the current ones.

And the end to any real creativity.

If you want to know how it will go, just look at IMVU - everything even remotely adult was removed... can't even have a lace top, since it looked too much like a nighty...

And then there is the voice issue - how to make sure the children are not being spoken to improperly... and chat.. how about chat filters to block any word that may even look dirty.

Well, I think it's a fallible assertion. The 'real world' is not like the 'second world' in a key way. In the 'real world' it's much easier to keep certain places restricted from use by minors. You can SEE if someone is obviously underage, and card the rest. (Yes, I realise that really good fake ID cards have been a problem, but technology helps there; for the most part, PHYSICAL boundaries help bar who you want barred.)

There is no such thing in SL. You cannot tell who is at the computer; we rely upon LL's filtering who gets into the main grid to *begin with* and our senses for the rest. We can at least make a valiant effort at keeping kids out of places kids should not be. And that's speaking only to 'mature' activities - griefing and other unwanted 'kid behavior' has been discussed already in the thread. Right now I'm talking about protecting kids from themselves rather than protecting current residents from rowdy kids.

There is also no *physical* way to keep someone out, other than click-ejecting people all day long. Is that fun, for the sim owner? Is that improving SL? How so? But there is no physical way to keep the minors out, or even tell who is who, any more. In order to unlock the gates and let all the thirteen year olds in, which I feel is unwise to begin with for all involved, you'd have to restrict the play and freedom of EXISTING residents who are over 18 and have money to spend. Current residents with money to buy sims, and to purchase items keeping SL economy rolling.

No I'm sorry, I don't see SL as being like RL and it isn't even true that everyone is included in everything in RL either. So it's a doubly fallible assertion, imo.

Improve the 'kid grid' instead, LL, is the answer IMO. I'm sure their parents would fork over $ if they saw it was a safe place for kids to be, and I'm sure the kids would benefit from creating there and so forth. Are kids allowed to run businesses? Someone said it's boring there and they can't even dress their avs better. So change *that*...No need to grab hold of the existing world and shake it upside down.

Right... right now if someone lets you know they're a minor, you can let Linden Labs know, and they get "escorted off the premises". If the grids are merged, it'll be like dealing with griefers.

I wonder if LL hasnt already given its "blessing" already and that this thread and associated comments have just made us a little more aware?

Any teen worth his or her salt can imitate a young adult. I could when I was 12/13. This place would be easy to fool. It's not like I have to stand in front of you to buy my booze and tobacco products and be checked by a bartender when I come on line.

Many of the people here - parents even - are not "teen savvy" - they aren't going to behave here the way they do at home in front of you. In real my parents never knew everything I did/do - I was and am a constant surprise (even at nearly 30).

Try mentioning that you're 15 on the Luskwood platform, and see how much "blessing" Linden Labs is giving to teen infiltrators. Last time I saw someone do that, they were knocked off within 3 minutes and didn't come back.

I am sure that this has already been done by more than one company. And yes your right it's running OpenSim. Even if LL comes up with a 'behind the firewall' product, what's the point of paying them for something that you can have for free. Sure, OpenSim is not quite there in terms of functionality but when it's on your own server, with your own backups etc you don't have to put up with LL down time, restarts or lag outs or missing inventory. No voice on OpenSim, but then for meetings, Skype is better quality anyway.

Microsoft sells quite a lot of stuff you can get for free... and they don't even have the advantage of being significantly superior to the competition. And OpenSim is "not quite there" in the same way my pool is "not quite Lake Superior".

LOL!

I mean that teens dont have to declare they are teens do they?

No, but that's not the same as Linden Labs giving any implicit blessing to their presence.