Bad news of the day: They're thinking of merging the Teen Grid into the main one

Australia, right?

Merging the grids would have no effect on if SL would be filtered by clean feed or not - it would be even in its current state. When you opt-out of the kiddy filter you get placed on another one, though, which blocks all -illegal- content.. and if they block SL on that one because of 'potential' troubles, they would be blocking ALL outlets of expression on the net. That is.. er.. everything. xD

You overestimate the responsibility of adults.

Kids learn from watching the adults.

And I said responsible parent, pay attention.

And a parent is going to pay because most stores are now using camera's to monitor the warehouse like this.

But when kids see adults acting like irresponsible morons, is it any wonder they think they should? After all if you treat a kid as a little spawn with nothing but rudeness and contempt... it's no wonder when they treat you with the same.

I haven't read thru the entire 60 some pages of this thread; however, I have read enough to know that this is the worst possible thing they could think about doing. And, I'll tell you how I know it's a terrible idea to throw kids in with adults.

I have had an account at IMVU for almost 2 years and they throw the kids in with the adults and refuse to split the servers. Instead, first they have the AP (Access Pass) that used to allow adults to have adult actions and body parts. Then due to the fact for a short period of time they allowed 13 to 17 year olds to have the AP with their parents' consent, I guess kids got their hands on the very adult materials and some parent went thru the roof. So, they started kiddiefying the AP and have taken and continue to take away anything of a s3xual nature from the adults with the same mantra of "protecting the kids." Bull hockey - that's why so many of us from IMVU have come over to SL - to get away from the kids and everything being made into a younger than Disneyland for adults who pay for the Access Pass and we pay for everything, and I mean everything, we want in the way of clothing, accessories, "rooms", etc.

Please LL and SL, do not throw the kids in with we adults here in the main grid. You will end up kiddiefying the main grid just like IMVU has kiddiefied it's site and it will drive people away in droves to more mature sites.

Oh god what a thing to wake up to this morning. LL trust me on this as I also came here from imvu's favoritism towards the teenage users at the expense of burning the long time paying adult customers more than ever. I like it far to much here to want to leave but I just might if I have to start dealing with teens on here not saying by any means that all teens are bad.

I started posting on this one when it was first put out there that this might be a reality. The more i see SL, the more I think this is still a horrible idea. The only age verification that might work is for the person to use a credit card. It opens up alot of questions like "Well I am 18 but don't have a credit card... what do i do?" type things... but there is no easy answer for this one.

Just crusing thru with a coffee as I do and saw this thread still going. I dont think teens is a brilliant move on "thier" part but I do think its a "valid" move as far as sl is concerned.

I know teens in my "work" but meet them only in specific situations (not school/social worker idea but in a media way). I am impressed with their accountability and thier sense of moral integrity. Ofcourse its teh law that is a issue. It's not a prob if you have already partnered and are certain you are not "sleeping with the enemy" so to speak. Teens can handle "Virtual situations" well I think. But I dont think sl offers much to average teens. So a few will join up and "make furniture and fairy dresses". Not every teen wants to interact with adults on ANY basis. Frankly I am in my twenties and i find it hardgoing with seniors and pompous gits in sl (above 40 at least). Teens wont stick around if they are put down and dissed, demeaned or simply ignored.

Its same as coming on "reading corner" here in forum. No teen is going to post and get slammed for grammar so if you use THIS approach taht teh forum uses, you should eliminate any issue with minors/teens and also english as second language members in sl by following this forums example.

They will keep to their own part of sl and maaybe cruise the music/arts scene but what does sl offer in that regard that a decent small venue, gig or concert doesnt offer on a sat'dy night in most towns and cities? It may seem awfuly daring to some people here BUT to be honest a lot of sl is pretty tame stuff.

It could be a non-issue. For parents maybe an interesting opportunity to meet teens with anonymity to hear what they think in a "safe situation". After all parents never really see teh reality of their child - tha tis saved for when they get among their peers.

Its prolly going to be liek teh old voice situation. In its main application it is a serious failure since few use it constantly. Its helpful for a few. Forpeople who dont "do" party scenes or "dark sims" worrying about teens in sl is kinda "so what?" They ar eexposed to much in real and on internet. If parents are worried about deviants and perves then streetsmart the teens and give them a short leash. And maybe leave sl also. Setting an example for teens to follow if they meet creepy wrinklies.

If its gonna happen its gonna happen. Many of us cant age verify so we'll just ban all access to our lands. But businesnesses may have issues with that. Just some ideas.

this thread is going to give the "Just ignore this one and let it die" Thread a run for it's money..
all on one topic too hehehehe

Well it is an issue taht will alter economy and social prospects for sl users. Thread you mentioned is a coffee cake - this is more debateable(?) and will impact all sl memebrs.

This reminds me of the time a 12 year old joined the World of Warcraft guild I use to belong to. Prior to this, everyone was an adult and we all chatted on the vent server, passing back and forth vulgar and off-color jokes. Everytime the 12 year old would login to the vent server we all had to clamp our mouths shut and play "Disneyland".

With almost complete consensus we all decided to boot him from the guild (much to his drama filled crying).

No offense to the child AVs, but they're bad enough when they pop into a mature club with their "sl parents" and expect me to change my normal behavior to accomodate them. It'll only be 10 times worse when the child AV is a "real" child.

-edit for spelling, bwahaha -

it's more like the circle of life as it repeats itself over and over..
so we may as well start bringing in the crispy creams and coffee..

no matter what we say here it is still gonna happen if they want it too.

Well that is "play school" innit? Where this is an actuality, so I doubt if a teen is gonan go "mommy pway with me and tell me storwies" They "pwobably" tell the so-called parents to "f**k off"!
Which will be a nice change.

I suppose the REAL issue is what is a teen? Will they have to age verify they are over 12? And tah tis where this gets into ridiculous. I can see this ending child avs as a group but that is for another thread which i wont get into.

Porn laws are changing everywhere and getting stricter so I think sl is clever enough to see times are changing and cleaning up landscape. But it wil never be totally pure as driven snow. And it relates to reality and what we offer teens in entertainment and education. Do we pander to oldfashioned values or do we establish new guidelines? Do we encourage teens to listen to "I kissed a girl and I liked it?" or even watch a certain USA soap where a lesbian marriage has taken place? Our real world is constantly changing and has plasticity. Sl is designed as a social experiment - so let's experiment. Lets See if teens are a smature thinkers as I believe them to be. They will reject the ghastly and the deviance more often than their elders, I feel.

Let teens in. Theyll bring a differnt perspective to all this.

I can attest to the fact that having kids and adults interact in a 3d chat world is a very, very bad idea. On the other site I have 2 accounts at there has been a situation where a 15 year old has a 41 year old master - not a very delightful sight would you say?

As a result of issues such as I mentioned above, the other site has taken away so much from the adult population (the population that by the way spends the most bucks) and has driven many of them out of the site due to the fact they don't want to be in a Disneyland or younger type venue for their chat pleasure.

Throwing kids in with adults is a very bad idea as many teens are looking for sugar daddies or mommies and they can be quite persuasive for those adults who can't say no to a kid. I for one refuse to chat with anyone under the age of 18 at the other site as what does a middle-aged woman have in common with a 15 year old - NOTHING except for maybe music as I love lots of music of all genre and maybe cars as I love fast cars and drive one.

Trust me - WORST IDEA HAVING KIDS AND ADULTS INTERACT ON A 24/7 BASIS.

I agree with you but for diffrent reasons, BUT its inevtable I think.
But you have music and cars in common with teens. So maybe not all bad.

Not every adult is middle aged, though. I'm an adult, but 6 months ago I was a teen. Now I can't talk to any of my old teen grid friends. So maybe YOU have nothing in common with teens, but you can't speak for everyone.

Teen's are just people of varying intellectual levels, depths of wisdom, and experience.

Talking to some can be refreshing. Talking to others can be mind splitting.

Honestly, i really do not care about Teen's being on the grid for any other reason but my own safety. I never want to be accused of corruption of youth because i accidentally did some virtual sex with a teen, or even worse -child pornography- because some teen guy sent me a picture of his dead rabbit standing at attention.

*doubletake*

I don't think, in fact I know, I have never heard it called that before.

This whole thing just makes me thing of when RL property owners start allowing riff raff to move into their nice neighborhoods. It gets overrun by riff raff, property goes to crap and the good people move on to something else.

If SL merges the grids, sooner or later SL will be a PG sim in it's entirety, and some other RPG will come along that is for adults, people will migrate there, and SL will fall to the wayside like msn's old chat rooms or IMVU.

If it happens it happens, something else will come along. And once that something else goes to crap, something will replace it... Just think - what if this does happen and something bigger and better comes along, you won't even WANT to go back to SL, kind of like now how you wouldn't want to revert back to MSN's old chat rooms.

On the other hand, maybe we are blowing things out of preportion. Maybe very little will change...
Aww hell who am I kidding, now I am wondering what bigger and better thing will replace SL hahahaha.

Bad move i started SL in 2005 Linden labs handled all age verfication and legally they cannot do anything baout it even with merging the servers , Legally they are responsable to patrol there own servers , there customers have no way to age verify and in the united states anyways its whoever owns the server's responsablity to check for ages

I think if a reasonable facsimile of SL came along tomorrow.. with all the same bells and whistles in place... (not talking about OSgrid which is a little behind) owned by a fairly reliable company.. a significant portion of the population would be there in a flash.

if you go and read all about the teen grid on the teen grid's website...you'll see that the lindens themselves have always blocked adults from going there...they have been assiduous in only allowing adult lindens into the teen grid, to maintain order and safety.

So tell me...what's the difference between allowing adults into the teen grid...and allowing teens into the adult grid...simple answer is...there is absolutely NO difference, except one...that being that 90% of of SL's customers will have to modify their behavior to keep 10% of their mostly NON PAYING customers from being offended...or their parents being offended by proxy.

Converting SL into a PG environment will homogenize the SL main grid into being like any one of a dozen other conjoined age mmorpg environments...and will sound the death knell for SL...members of the teen grid do NOT support LL's revenue streams in any significant way...they are not the majority land owners...they are not the majority of those spending L$'s in SL overall...

Tell me..does it make sense to lose 20-30% of your adult customers to bring in the teens?...teens that will not replace the revenue lost along with those adult customers? Does it make sense to give some other company a real profitable reason to create a trusted asset and transaction system for Open Sim? The Lindens have often likened the grid to a website...a website with a 3D interface...and that it is...but there ARE a great many ADULT websites that simply do not allow underaged customers...that are exceptionally profitable...as the main grid has been, if you can believe what the lindens have told us in past months. If you have a business model that is working and is profitable...why change it?

Lastly...you have seen the continuing stories that have been front page news about facebook...myspace...environments that allow a mixed age environment...about all of the predators...and in some cases, about false claims by children to their parents, about abuse...cases that end in arrests, suicides...the destruction of lives...I have seen in this forum that there will be AR's and interventions by the governance team...to prevent this sort of thing from happening...that's not going to happen, because...If I had a child on a website where they were supposed to be safe...where the owners of that site SAID they would be safe...and I found that my child had been approached by an adult...I would first call the police, not a "governance team"...to have the individual arrested...and then I would call my lawyer, and sue the company that claimed they would keep my child safe on their website...I wouldnt let it be swept under the rug by some "governance team"...and I think that is precisely how most parents would react...ESPECIALLY if that parent were not a resident of SL...

[QUOTEIf I had a child on a website where they were supposed to be safe...where the owners of that site SAID they would be safe...and I found that my child had been approached by an adult...I would first call the police, not a "governance team"...to have the individual arrested...and then I would call my lawyer, and sue the company that claimed they would keep my child safe on their website...I wouldnt let it be swept under the rug by some "governance team"...and I think that is precisely how most parents would react......[/QUOTE]

Well that's not how I would react. As a parent I would assume it's my responsibility to pay attention to what my kid is doing on any website that I haven't already blocked (like SL) regardless of what that website promised. That website or owners of it didn't give birth to that kid, I did and it's my responsibility to make sure I know everything he's doing online. I am SO glad I don't have to worry about this, personally. But I am also SO against blaming everybody under the sun, except myself of course, for not keeping my kid safe online, and then trying to sue everybody for not doing my job for me. I don't care if I have to check every 15 minutes what he's doing. It's MY responsibility, there's just no other way to look at it, for me.

Define "approached"

For the most paranoid of parents, "approached" could be as simple as an adult came within the 20m chat range and said "Hello." Parents who'll scream "pedophile!" at the slightest provocation - and police and media who are ready to assume guilty until proven innocent - are exactly why many adults do NOT want kids on the main grid.

Well they are officially past the thinking about merging stage. Baffin in Aditi is a Teen Grid Transfer station welcoming teens to the MG.