Banning on property

Exploring SL by flying free or in a vehicle is one of the most enjoyable things one can do in SL. You never know what you are going to come across and there are many wonderful discoveries to be made out there. Even on the mainland, there are lots of areas where people have gone to lots of trouble to make nice places for visitors to discover and explore. In order to explore it is necessary to "pass thru" private land as most land is privately owned.

I too regret the proliferation of ban lines but I also understand peoples need for privacy. Because of this I am a big proponent for using skyboxes and security systems for privacy, so the ground can be left free and open for exploring. You can have a lot more privacy in a skybox then you ever will on the ground and are well out of the reach of most casual camera probes from people who are just "passing thru".

When I first joined SL, almost 3 years ago, I posted a question here asking how most people felt about explorers visiting and walking thru thier builds. Most poeple welcomed it as long as you were not interrupting them when they were having an intimate conversation. Most people agreed that you should not just drop on any couples who were intimately engaged, but did not mind if you explored when no one was home. That attitude seems to have changed as SL has grown, with more and more people expressing the feeling that their land is private and disliking anyone exploring it at anytime.

Most people still don't mind as long as you are not intruding or interrupting them, so I still feel that exploring unoccupied property is fine. But you should be prepared to leave graciously if the owners return home. The important thing is to be polite and respectful of others wishes, and avoid intruding when its not welcome.

I dunno, i never minded people looking at the OUTSIDE of the house. Or even in the windows.

But I sure as heck didn't want them IN my house. Even if they left quickly when I showed up.

I generally feel the same. Cam all you want. The game allows it, and I don't care. In fact, I generally keep the house open to look in. But don't walk in. Touch my stuff? Okay, fine. But if you want to use it, go buy it yourself and support the economy.

You don't have a right to be anywhere you don't pay for.

And this TV program reflects what kind of reality???

Certainly nothing any police officer that i have ever known recognizes!

You never met my inlaws.

I suggest you read Alan Greenspan's biography "Turbulent Times". He explains the need far better than I ever could.

As far as I am aware no one in RL cares who sleeps with whom, except for a few shriveled up busybodies.

I suggest a few months in Indonesia to see how well the alternative works in real life. I spent 4 months there in 2005, and it isn't pretty!

I can only say that I hope I never do! LOL!

We were discussing BAN LINES,

not anarchy in the world of Second Life.

Ban lines are not put up due to a lack of governance.

At the risk of being repetitious, the discussion was about the SL anarchy producing just that need. At this point it is the nearest thing there is to any sort of rule of law or privacy in Second Life.

Look at the TV crews staging "sexual ageplay" scenarios for example - usually on someone else's land without their permission!

That is exactly how the "Jailbait" sim was closed down. I was there when they staged it - all eight times until they got it right! Director and all.

Way back in post #92, I jokingly wrote:
"2. Anyone doing anything other than TPing to places in Search is a pervy griefer - and they are legion!! They want to mess with your stuff, force-collar you and terraform you. They are terraformists!!!!"

It's way funnier when that mindset is expressed in all seriousness.

I am sure the woes of the teleportation system are the subject of many other threads LOL!

TPing is still no way to explore and exploring really is a pain if you have ban lines and security orbs all over the place.

Looks like we are back where we started. ...

If the orb is merely protecting your bedroom or your house then I wouldn't worry about it. I can only speak for me but my only complaint is when I'm trying to fly from one place to another and get ejected. I shouldn't have to fly above the clouds to the point where I can't see the ground, especially since sometimes I wont know my location until I can see it visually.

My personal opinion is that any orb that goes beyond the house into the yard should have the courteousy to give enough seconds to react and move appropriately. Sometimes people are not being nosey as much as they are astray. I have experienced viewing property for sale or rent only to end up being ejected by stepping into a neighbors area with no tolerance at all.

QFT.

Ricardo gives me many laughs.

It's been a while since Ricardo Harris posted about his own problems, but he was subjected to very intensive, continual and imaginative persecution for a long time by a very determined neighbor who wanted his property. Since it was out of the way in a corner, he soon learned that any random avatar that came his way was an agent of the land griefer bent on no good. In his case, it was rational to adopt a policy of orbit first and don't bother to ask any questions. The experience has probably given him a more jaundiced view than most of us have. Rather than make him a laughing stock, people might want to consider his extreme case a cautionary tale - people bent on malice usually don't stop of their own accord, they have to be stopped.

Very true. A lot of the people here weren't around for that story. It was an amazing tale of griefing. I can't blame him for shooting first either.

I no longer am following you.

When should people be allowed to have ban lines now?

When some SL city council votes its okay?

Or the Lindens?

--------------------------------

Ive been here coming on 3 years, the reasons people get security orbs and put up ban lines are:

1) They dont want nosy "explorers" on their land.
2) They don't want "griefers" on their land.
3) They don't want people they've had Drama with to be on their land.
4) They don't want they ex or their alts, or exes friends on their land.

with #3 and #4 being the most common reasons by far.

Thus any authority that adjudicates reasons for land bans, ban lines and security orbs is basically going to be a authority that would be sniffing around in people's private lives.

Any "rule of law" in this area is just going to be a pain. Just like domestic squabbles on COPS. (or among my in-laws).

Better off just leaving the system as it is. Ban Lines may be ugly, but they don't infringe on people's personal lives.

EDIT: No reason to drag myself in the dirt. I'm done with this thread.

I wasn't making him a laughing stock!

His name just reminded me of "I love Lucy"

Thats all.

People think I'm a Les Miserables fan just because I chose the name Colette. I never even knew there was a Colette in the play/book w/t/f/e it is.

My point is that ban lines simply don't address the real issues of neighbors trying to live together.

So far some sort of formal legal system has proven the best way to address those issues.

Or as Winston Churchill put it "The worst method in the world, except for every other one that we know about."

The essence of the law is to "cut to the heart of the matter" and then to address the real issues between th e various parties.

Running around with guns blazing (i.e. COPS and other idiot fare) has nothing whatever to do with this process.

I was more referring to Cops in that that is the type of squabbles you'll see.

I don't know if I like the idea of a legal system to handle feuding neighbors either.

Some people would definitely try to abuse it.

There are governance projects like Metaverse Republic out there, but I am reticent to join any such system where other residents can choose to take my rights away because they may not like what I build.

There is a need for a certain level of chaos in order to respect individual liberty in SL, and those who want order know where to go when they want less freedom or individuality.

We use ban lines on our property, access is only given out very judiciously, and I make no apology for any of it.

My partner and I have spent a large amount of time trying to make our area look nice, we are in a pretty remote area, and we STILL have been the subject of several griefing attempts.

We don't use a security orb or anything similar, because the 10-15 seconds most of them give you before ejecting you is plenty of time for a griefer to do their thing. Most of them are also irritating to configure and require you to purchase several of them.

I find ban lines unaesthetic myself, but they are far, far better than the alternative. We have reached out to a couple of neighbors to add them to our access list (after a brief conversation to make sure they're GOOD neighbors) to reduce the unsightliness for those who would otherwise see them on a routine basis.

We are very social people, but we choose the times and places of our socialization; wanting to have control over that is not unfriendly or antisocial; it's simply practical.

So, in summation, while I sympathize with those of you who just like to fly around and find ban lines difficult to deal with, I don't see SL ever being a place where they aren't the best alternative to deal with the inevitable handfuls of people who lose all sense of social graces once they enter the tubes that comprise the Internet.

You're way too deep in mud to try to clean up now. Too little, too late?

It wasn't always like this. I never closed my place to anyone, it always remained opened. Never had any need for security drones either. But sometimes you're forced to do things you don't really want to and it's exactly what happened to me. It soured me, made me bitter and now I have a completely different view of things.

As far as the Ricky and Lucy joke, I know what was meant but it means nothing to me.

Holy Smokes! I go away for a few days the thread I started turns into a full blown debate. Ban-lines, trespass or no, accusations of racism... WOW!

Since I started this, here is my opinion:
I don't want strangers in my RL home, I don't want them in my SL home either. If in RL, someone enters a home without permission. Its called trespassing. If they do so by force, its called (at least) breaking and entering, criminal trespass, and or home invasion. What is likely to happen in RL? Anything from a simple request to leave (not likely), to being shot. If they survive, they are prosecuted. I think a warning, then ejection is more than fair. People "passing thru" can do so. Those looking for trouble, will find it.
As for getting into a "locked" home, just TP in. Who needs doors?

For those who think "Privacy" is stupid, please post your home locations here and we will be sure to visit you at our our leisure... unannounced. I could even send you snapshots!