Banning on property

Actually there is already a tool which allows this - it is called "Poser" and runs ONLY on your own computer!

Much better graphics than SL can ever have, and total privacy.

The problem lies in trying to use what is a glorified "chat room" as your private space.

There are efforts like Opensim which will one day fill in the blank spaces and allow as much or as little privacy as you want, but right now you have to choose one or the other.

Opensim (et al) allows you to set up your own private grid, much like the private chat networks which use IRC.

Using the right tool for the job implies that you have more than one tool to use!

Or possibly we could set up some sort of "rule of law" which actually enforces contracts, adjudicates disputes and all that other icky stuff.

Right now we have some sort of primitive set of absolute tyrants, none of whom really has much of an clue as to just how to actually run a society.

As a result anyone who shows any creativity will offend the "great king" sooner or later and get banned for one reason or another.

Thus second life gravitates towards an endless parade of bot filled shopping malls each selling essentially the same thing!

It is sad, but I have seen a great many really creative people either driven out or shut down because what they did offended some bully who had the power to shut them down.

Griefers are barely affected since they learn how to evade the controls, it is the ordinary player who suffers these restrictions and simply goes elsewhere for fun.

I know I do.

Okay


Of course griefers are a fact. They are not going to go away ever, even if LL stop free signups and employ a bunch of AR specialists and equip us all with an excellent AR channel
Even if griefers are disappeared, we’ll still have oddballs who see nothing wrong with barging in on top of us in situations where most sane people would see it as inappropriate.


They are FREE, but they are also butt-ugly griefy to the neighbourhood.
Why should anyone pay for a security device when the butt-ugly alternative is free? If you can’t honestly see why then you just don’t give a shit about others. This is not a good attitude.



Neighbours and the guests and customers have a primary complaint. Anyone with a soul had a secondary complaint.


OOOOh! Let’s do this one in micro-steps:
a) NOT anti-social
b) Just a dislike of society.
Hmmmmmmmm! Hilarious.
Even funnier to think of moi as the ambassador/whipping-girl for all of society.


Nope. I just think they are butt-ugly. Also some of their side-effects right up to the furthest corner of a parcel are often unwarranted.
“I’d never join a club that would have me as a member…” -Groucho Marx
I am not personally offended by indiscriminate griefers. I am not personally offended by indiscriminate ban lines.
I do however regard people who put up butt-ugly ban lines and griefers with equal disdain and pity. I don’t actually want to get near to either type of sad-ass. However we all share this 3D space and sometimes I have to pass by them.


Stop all griefing? Don't be silly. See (1) above



The point you and others are missing in all of this is that there are alternatives to ban lines.
Yes, they cost a very small amount of money, but using them is less griefey for society at large.
In nearly one year, as a female out in the open on land close to a noob-magnet, I’ve only had to eject/ban two morons. I might have done the same to maybe a dozen others at most if I had been in hair-trigger mode.
Sticking up griefey butt-ugly red ban lines is simply not an appropriate response. It’s just plain anti-social. It’s actually they same attitude as griefers. Me,me,me, me!

I will be supplying security devices in some rentals I’m putting together. I’ve never felt the need to have any sort of security for myself. If tenants feel they must have security, then they can have my properly set up device for no extra charge. No way will I visit ban lines on neighbouring parcels. I'll pay money in order to avoid doing that to others.

No. Others not living in the sim do NOT have a secondary complaint. Equate it to real life as someone driving by your house and not liking your picket fence, even though your neighbor has no problem with it.

I have no argument that the ban lines are ugly. They are. That's why I voted for the JIRA entry to allow for clientside adjsutsments of thier visual effects. Seemed the right thing to do to help society all around. Did you?



If you're going to quote me, quote me correctly. I did not say " b) Just a dislike of society.". I said a dislike of you. And yes, you ARE the ambassador for all of society. We all are. If not, then we are not part of society. So you either work to fix things, or you work with things. Whining and complaining without alternatives or solutions solves nothing. All that does is create angst where none needed to be.




"pass by" is the key term. You can reguard the people and the ban lines in any way you wish. However, judging others by that fact can show a bit of narrowmindedness because you have no idea of WHY those ban lines are up. Perhaps just minutes befoe you arrived, they were being bombarded by griefers using alts, so put up the blanket ban to reduce the anoyance. Point is, you don't know.

We all share this 3D space, yes, but to be able to put up ban lines means we have staked our claim to our little bit of it. To build it in our ideals. If this means ban lines, then so be it. It is that person's ideal. Saying they are wrong, or that you treat them with "disdain and pity" because of thier choices is something I call "sad-ass".

They are as free to put up ban lines as others are to not put up ban lines. PErsonal choice. As it should be.



And your view of not having ban lines at all is anymore different from the "Me,me,me, me!" mentality?

I get the point all too well. Anyone who does not conform to what you concider asthtically pleasing is a "sad-ass". That all people need to conform to your view of SL society in where all share everything. Well, this may be a virtual reality, but it's still real people on the other end.

The point you're missing is that I advocate CHOICE. The choice of the individual. That means they can put up banlines, or open their home to all, or any other ideal they have because it is their choice to do so. The old argument is that "I paid for it, it's mine to do with" is a simplified version of that. The person paying for the land chose to pay for and worked to be able to have that land. That little plot of 3D space in which they could make their ideals, their choices, a reality.

I think it's more anti-social to try to impose your choices on anyone else, for any reason at all. Because it's supression of free will.

~Jessy

K, explain to me how you are going to make "Rule of law" work in a virtual world where drama is the main past-time.

It would work about as well as Judge Wapner being imposed on Desperate Housewives.

The main reasons for bannings, ban-lines and security orbs are either drama or griefer related - they have nothing to do with SL business, unless the money is part of the drama.

Or is the court going to preside over the results of Jenny So-and-SO sleeping with Betty Whosie's Boyfriend and pet cat-girl?

In addition to the inherent ludicrousness Colette has so delightfully pointed out, there is the feasibility factor.

"Rule of law" requires a means of enforcement, which means either you have a governing body with a monopoly on the use of force, or you have a bunch of individual militias running around imposing theirs where they can and fighting over turf. Bottom line: LL has the inherent monopoly on force in SL (since they can pull the plug on you at will), and fortunately has enough good sense to keep it that way.

Rule of law doesn't even work well in REAL LIFE for this kind of thing.

Look at neighbor feuds...

People going to court after a break-up... (see that other thread)

and worse...

Divorce


Don't people watch "Cops" anymore?

You have choices within choices.
I don't have a problem with anyone who wants to keep people from giving them grief. There is a definite requirement for the facility.
I do have a problem with someone who when given options on how to do that, goes for the one that has the worst impact on society at large, presumably because it's easier and cheaper for them.

When I think of such sociopaths, some words come to mind:
Dude, you are another individual, and I would love to continue to respect you for that but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..

This isn't about keeping people out. It's about how you do it.

Stop flattering yourself by implying that I have any concern what you or anyone else does in the "privacy" of their land. I don't give a damn.

It's not the privacy that I have issues with, it's the methods that exist. Banlines are ugly, affect the land value of the neighbors (when clearly visible) and have many other negative qualities. Security orbs I have no issues with except for the overzealous types who have ejected me immediately or within a ridiculously small number of seconds. If a better system were created, or more people set their security orbs to give someone enough time to fly from one place to the next then I wouldn't be complaining, and I think most others wouldn't be either.

I have a probably stupid question. When we want privacy, we have locked doors and privacy windows (which appear to slow down only the newest residents) and a security orb set to such a range that you basically have to be *in* the bedroom to set it off. That said, it was a freebie and while otherwise excellent gives no warning before tossing people out. After reading this thread I can see that getting no warning annoys some people (though I still don't why our "visitors" should be surprised when it happens - what part of darkened windows and locked doors suggests we want company?). So we're willing to get a security system that DOES give a warning, but if people are warned, can they sit down on something and not get ejected?

Id be all for getting rid of all ban lines and security orbs and stuff except for one problem:

How would I keep the weirdos away?

Put your clothes back on.........

A decent (Psyke's, for example) orb will unsit/eject them - or teleport them home, if that is the setting you choose. I would advise against using any 'Push' settings (many orbs have that option) as using anything but unsit/eject/teleport-home (and the latter is in somewhat of a grey area) is against the ToS.

Edit: Just to be clear - no, it doesn't matter if they sit on anything. They'll still be ejected.

Thanks Tengu!

that don't work, then the weirdos just try and date me to get them back off again.

Actually, "society at large" doesn't have a problem with ban lines to keep people out. If they did, you wouldn't see many. I'd say that makes those that don't like them the social minority.



No. Most security devices use an Unsit command prior to ejection. Sitting on things only works agaisst push and orbit (which is a form of push) on nuetral ground. A security device on land you own (or your group owns) has ultimate authority.

I prefer Psyke Defense Systems - Home Security Orb. Reasonable priced, very well scripted, low-lag, multiple settings, and easy to understand documentation. If you concider the HSO, pick up a notecard from his vendors. They explain everything in detail prior to purchase.

There are MANY others to use though, so be sure to look around, or ask friends for their recommendations ^.^

~Jessy

And thank you Jessy! I just took a look at the system you suggested on SLX and it looks perfect.

Hey! I'm TOTALLY with the rednecks on this particular one.
If someone has got themselves into a locked house (never mind the bedroom) then BANG! instant ejection as far as I'm concerned.
It is possible to unintentionally end up inside a structure. I've done it twice.
1. In a huge lag moment, I went whizzing out of control across half a sim and went *through* a solid wall.
2. I TPed to a yellow bit of Map to check a for sale parcel. I ended up in a room with a violent collection of prims.
If there had been an instant silent eject in either of the buildings I would not have noticed the ejection in the circumstances.


On the other hand, if someone is in the open but in a zone that you want to be private, then warn beforehand. This is the area where "annoyance" comes in for someone who is simply going from A to B and has zero interest in 'using your stuff'.


The two cases (inside v. moving along in the open) are completely separate cases justifying completely separate levels of response.
For some however, there is absolutely no difference between the two. These ones are as freaky as the intruders in my view.

LOL

For pete's sake, no one will ever agree on this subject. See a ban line? Move along. You are probably too close if you can see them, anyway.

That's how I see it. I don't use any security except a locked door myself. But I love to explore and fly my helicopters. If I come across a ban line, I just move on. I really don't care whathat person wants to "hide" or protect, it's none of my business. If ban lines make a particular sim hard to traverse, I just find another one.

I keep seeing this "passing thru" line each and every time. Passing thru' to where? Who the hell needs to pass by either walking or flying from sim to sim. Last time I checked the teleportation system still exists. I could be wrong though, maybe they took it out.

You tp to where you're going and once there, you've arrived. The only place I might use flight is in a large shop, mall or in a large public place like Greenies, Acropolis or any other simialr place. But these are all public places.

I don't go into sims I have no business going to. For what? Why should I? To see how the other half lives? I don't care and neither should anyone else. If you're on a sim where there are no shops or public structures or announced public places then you're obviously in the wrong place to begin with so get out. What business do you have to be there other then intrusion?

Then the amazing part is you see these people who can't get enough of intruding..err..trespassing..er..sticking their noses where it don't belong..err..peeping..er..'exploring' there, finally got it right. You see them actually have the balls to get annoyed when security ejects their butts off a private property or they see ban lines up.

Don't bitch and whine cause you weren't given enough time to leave. You shouldn't of been there in the first place. So now, handle what you get. If you don't like being tossed on your ass then stay away from places you have no business being at, plain and simple.

Don't counter with this is a virtual world. So what? SL is good to be compared to rl but not when it benefits you?

I for one don't ask questions, you're on my property uninvited, the next thing you know, you're up in deep space checking out the nice stars. No excuses, no apologies of any kind and afterwards I sleep very well, thank you.

I'm guessing Ricky's parents didn't take him and Lucy on many Sunday drives when he was a kid.

Nope, I drove myself and her name wasn't Lucy.

Back in the day,

Before cell phones and CD players and Cable TV ..

Before Playstation and Al Gore inventing the internets ..

Sometimes on the weekend my parents would take us kids on a drive out in the country and stuff. Right past everyone's private farms, etc.

Sunday Drive. Kind of Recreational.

I imagine thats the real motive behind exploring to see the sights, not to poke their nose in other people's business.

You have a point that it does take some nerve to complain about banlines when its someone else's property, but that doesn't mean their motives for exploring are necessarily bad ones.

Sides, more productive to just read Profiles if you are nosy.


And if you remember TV before cable, you'd have gotten the Lucy reference.

Aye, Carumba!