Banning on property

I just don't get why people GO into occupied houses, especially if they aren't new residents and so should know to look for green dots. Our house has locked doors and windows that we close when we want privacy, so it is not hapless new residents who have been regularly been wandering in and trying to chat (in friendly or otherwise fashion) while we're sleeping in SL. (And hey now don't start snarking on that please! ) It's our land I suppose but it's very beautiful and we want to share ... the land! not the house! and not to find out you've been standing beside the bed critiquing our taste in SL art (we have EXCELLENT art, grrrrr!)

ETA "occupied" ... we only care when we are (and pretty obviously with the locks and the tinted windows) wanting privacy. And yes, we have now installed a security system we can switch on and off. I just wish we hadn't had to. I don't get going into a private home where there's nothing interesting but two green dots clearly wanting to be alone (the locked doors! the privacy windows!) It just seems rude to me. But then getting in to find avatars SLEEPING - why on earth do they stay to watch that?!! There are a LOT more exciting things to do in SL

Sorry for the rambly vent!

My post was more an expression of exasperation at the way SL increasingly mimics our first reality, instead of becoming a platform for new and innovative ways of creating and interacting. I’m really not interested in an SL that goes out of its way to recreate RL, but it seems that my view of SL is increasingly out of kilter with many residents. You’ll notice I wasn’t denying anyone their opinion, Chris, simply offering my rationale, so I’m not sure that warranted an absurd rhetorical response. Hey, I'm the Surrealist here! Perhaps you just like to live up to your signature.

But since you ask - pay your tier? No thanks, since my alts and I pay enough of their own but are still happy to share with anyone who drops by. Use my poseballs, hang out when I’m not there? Go for it - you’re welcome. That includes the sex-related objects, by the way - they’re only toys, after all. I don’t have the ‘because I paid for it, no-one else can get their grubby paws on it’ mentality, I’m afraid.

Come crashing through the door when I’m in a compromising position? Hang around, roleplay or have a chat - I’m not going to get embarrassed because my avatar is having fun, this is SL. (Having said that, it HAS happened to me in RL and I can still see the funny side of it, but that’s just me.) And if that crasher is a griefer, how hard is it to ignore them and log out briefly, as I do? Like naughty children, the thing they hate most is being ignored.

As for manners, they're a socially-defined construct and not at all universal. If we emulated indigenous Australians, it would be bad manners not to share everything we own with our peer group. There's no reason at all why SL shouldn't develop its own set of social behaviours quite unrelated to those of North America, Europe, or anywhere else. No reason, that is, other than narrow mind-sets.

I concur with Strauss and Bradley on the selfish, barrier mentality, and the absurdity of people’s preciousness around so-called ‘privacy’. Feel free to heap scorn on me for that - just my view again. But my alts, in particular, have been around long enough, paying plenty of tier and trying to contribute to a creative, ALTERNATIVE reality, for me to find that very sad.

Is it selfish that I or my partner want to create items in PRIVATE?

My SL wife makes clothes. She would rather do that in peace and quiet and keep copies of her stuff in a secure area to get around inventory loss problems. Whether you like it or not that means ban lines around the workshop.

Why should we go and spend money on a security orb when the lindens provide the tools we need free of charge.

It isn't selfish. It's just how some people are. They want peace and quiet sometimes. respect that.

Fairly simple answers:

- some newbies just do not realize that other people in SL want privacy, or that not everything is openly accessible, or what the etiquette is
- some people do realize but are just a bit nosy or are looking for someone to interact with and have not got the hang of finding places to visit where they are welcome
- some people just want to be deliberately annoying

Fine, you pay your tier on your land, not on mine. Private property is a key basis of advancement and civilization. As such it should be defended from those with the entitlement attitude that the fruit of someone else's labors is open game for them.

As for your indigenous Austrailians, that might be why they never advanced past the stone age.
The manners of North America and Europe are adopted because they work and are successful. If success is narrow minded, then I will gladly be called narrow minded.

You have a different view to what constitutes being civilized than I do

Actually, the privacy, or ownership of the land isn't even a factor here.

It's RESPECT of another.

Going into someone's house without their permmisson is DISrespectful.

Some have their lands open to all. Airy buildings, no doors, heck, some even have welcoming signs.

Others have locked doors, or have their buildings a few hundred meters in the sky (as did the OP). This is an OBVIOUS attempt at a medium of privacy (at least obvious to anyone with an IQ over that of a retarded cockaroach).

The entire reason we have ban lines, or security systems is because people have no respect for others and their ideas. Those truely out to explore SL do so without intruding on another. Respecting their privacy until they know for certain that they are welcome. Those just going anywhere, onto anyone's land/buildings, through locked doors, in the name of "exploring" are worse than griefers. At least griefers are honest enough to admit they have no respect for anyone else.

I explore all the time, and never have an issue with such. Why? Becuase I can explore while still respecting another's land and without intruding into their Second Lives without invite. So let's stop the whining about "exploring" being hampered by security/ban-lines. Because it is just whining.

Spelled out:
R-E-S-P-E-C-T

~Jessy

Post of the year

Yes. You're bang on, dead right. It's *ALL* about respect
...................................................*for one another*

Putting up those ugly red ban lines is very DISrespectful of others.
They are really visually intrusive outside of the banned parcel.

The fact that LL created the things in no way makes them acceptable.


If someone has a problem with disrespectful people intruding on their activities on their own land, then they should find a way of dealing with the issue that is not disrespectful towards people who have no intention of intruding.

By some people's definition of intrusion/trespass in SL, I do it quite a lot.
I fly from A to B and pass over parcels.
I sail the channels between Linden water sims and sometimes clip a jaggy border of a parcel. It's really easy to wander off the Linden channel when there's nothing marking it.

Ban lines are a complete pain when travelling about the place.
However, when standing near a parcel on which someone has set up ban lines, they are a hugely 'in-your-face' rape of the visual experience.


R-E-S-P-E-C-T is a two-way street.

Excuse me, but do you really have it in for Aussies or something? Stone age, eh? Your opinions are based on nothing but speculation, and are extremely offensive. Just keep living up to the 'loud, arrogant redneck tag'.

Exactly. No need to give anyone any reason or excuse for wanting to keep intruders out.

Travel thru'?

In my case, travel thru' to where?

My land is on the sim's corner which I purposely seeked out. The reason being 2 sides are all water with no access to or from it to my land. So what reason would anyone have for entering it if there's nowhere to go from there? This excuse doesn't work here.

Awww, and you don't do this now?

Many of those opposed to not being able to go in other peoples property have all kinds of excuses as to why and many more, like, enjoy and look forward to 'poking' where they don't belong. This being the reason they hate being stopped by security or ban lines.

I like this post.

I sometimes wonder if some people even respect their friends and lovers in Second Life, let alone strangers and their land.

Correct.



Nope. Not even close. Ban lines are the SL equivilant of property fencing. They can easily be avoided. If you can't due to your system lagging, then you shoudl moderate your travel accordingly. ie, don't use vehicles you can not properly control.



Incorrect. They appear at close range only. Improper alpha-texturing on prims can cause a visual distortion, but that's due to the poor texturing, not the ban lines. Neighbors should talk to each other to work out having the need to see ban lines. Most times nighbors can put each other on the access lists so they do not need to see them all the time. Travelers can simply move on.



Actually, this makes them perfectly acceptable.




If you have no intention of intruding, then ban lines do not effect you. Moot point. That's liek being angry at a locked door in RL when you had no intention of going in.



Passing over pacels is still allowed with ban lines. They only extend upwards 50m above the land surface.

To see the "markings" of the Linden owned land, use CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+P. This turns on parcel boundry lines so you can see where you're going.



I fly, drive, boat, etc all through SL and have absolutely no issues traveling due to ban lines. I suggest learning to navigate a vehicle.

As for the "in your face rape" of the ban lines up close....move. Why you would insist another change their land to meet your outlook when you are "simply passing through" is a msytery to me.




Yes, it is. However, unlike some I do no demand it of others. I EARN it. Of course, I have to want a person's respect in order to earn it from them. Otherwise, their opinion means absolutly nothing to me.

I do NOT force my ideals on others. If I don't like something in SL I move on. Don't like ban lines. Move on.

However, on my land, I pay for the right to do as I wish to MY ideals. Personally, I do not use ban lines. I have no need. If I needed them, for any reason (or no reason), then I darn well would put them up.

Next thing people will whine about is wanting to Build everywhere, with Scripts and Push enabled. Might as well let them all terraform everyone's land too. Leave it all open to everyone!!!

If you don't want to see ban lines,then look on the JIRA pages. There is a JIRA entry for putting in a client-side option to turn off/adjsut their visual effects.

If you want people to turn off thier ban lines completely, then you need to meet halfway on that RESPECT street in one or two ways;
1) Come up with a better means to keep out the troublemakers.
2) Convince everyone in SL to respect another's property.

I highly suggest working on choice #1. You can try #2, but my faith in the human race isn't that high. (Which is why we have ban lines)

~Jessy

True, but at the same time there are really no perfect "bans".

FOr a start any fool (i.e most griefers) will set up several dozen alts who can then have access.

Secondly there is NO way to keep someone from "roaming"" via campers!

Even the "Security Orbs" can be defeated by such strategies as "sitting" on an object
.

Second Life is NEITHER secure nor private!

Live with it.

Despite all the hype and wishful thinking there is NO foolproof "security Orb" or anything else in SL, nor in real life come to think of it.

They can ALL be defeated by a "roaming camera", by simply sitting on an object or some equally simple strategy.

According to the FBI you can hire someone to break into someone's home and plant a monitor on their computer for under US$100 which will give you EVERYTHING!

"Privacy" is an illusion.

Actually, there are "foolproof" security orbs. As for sitting *smirks* even the most basic built security orb functions with an Unsit command before ejection/ban/TP-Home.

As for the cameras; though nothing can stop them, hidden prims (totally clear) can make it such a pain to get through it's not worth it. As can stratigic placement of mega-prims. Though granted, doing so on a 512m plot would be very limited in effect. Then all you have to do is turn on "Show Look At" and watch the crosshairs to see if you're being watched ^.~

Privacy is a means that can be achived in proper relation to desire to adapt and overcome.

~Jessy

I'm sorry you also found the need to be racist. Your comment shows a significant lack of understanding of contemporary Australia, as well as being highly insulting to those of our indigenous friends who are residents in SL.

Well the main reason to follow them would be that Western culture is dominant among the users of Second Life. It would take quite a shift in values for that to change.

Even those users from outside Western Europe and the US have been pretty much engulfed in imported Western Culture since birth. The lasting legacy of Western Imperialism.

Still, I imagine adopting the partner sharing customs of the Inuit might make for some interesting conversations.

Can we please start applying Godwin's Law when people resort to playing the race card? That ploy is getting pretty old too.

I'm not sure Chris really played the racist card, he played the cultural card.

Its debatable I suppose how much Western Values had to do with their technological innovation.

Certainly the constant warfare among Europe's many small countries led to a need for Military advancements that came at an opportune time to bully (kill, extort, conquer, exploit) the rest of the world.

Cultures that were more bound by tradition didn't see the same need.. Which in the end proved the unsuccessful course. As far as retaining political control anyway.

The Aboriginal Australian's manners may be superior to Western Europeans. Its hard to quantify such a thing. However I doubt their manners had anything to do with advances in Military, Production and Transportation technologies.

I didn't mean Chris, who was commenting on cultural values and their possible effects. I meant Surrealist, who called Chris a racist for doing so. Uncalled for; cultural values do not derive from skin color. IMO, Surrealist loses the thread.

Chris didn't just comment on cultural values. He also insulted Indigenous Australians AND Australians by stating that they never advanced past the Stone Age. For anyone who actually knows the history of Indigenous Australians, this is extra insulting. I just don't get that something that was said in discussion, with no malice intended, could inspire such a ignorant statement by someone. There was no need to get into insults, and that's exactly what he did.

It is considered insulting, yes.

And it certainly seemed to be used in a derogatory way.

It traditionally has been used as such, for quite a long time.

However should it be?

Is the measure of a culture its technology? Seems a bit materialistic and shallow a method to apply to something like values and ideals.

Additionally there is the fact that those who are on the cutting edge of technological innovation are rarely those who ascribe the most steadfast to the culture in which they belong.

Otherwise techie types wouldn't be called Geeks or Nerds, would they?