Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

As You Like It - Men Becoming Women

Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
12-25-2008 05:28
From: Amaranthim Talon
Actually, Pep- considering the tone of it all- there has been hardly any quarreling. Merry Christmas Pep :)
Merry Christmas to you to Amaranthim and your extended family.

I am afraid I distinguish argument and quarrelling by the lack of the "logical" element, not the lack of an "emotional" one, so I would beg to disagree.

Pep (With no hope, as a result, of the argument being resolved)
_____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
Avawyn Muircastle
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 528
12-25-2008 05:40
From: Amaranthim Talon
Grant you I have not looked it up so I could be wrong - but I am pretty sure Buddhists have never been out for mass executions, racial cleansings or pogroms of any sort. I think we can pretty much accept Buddhists as generally peaceful folks- barring the occasional Killer Monk or something. As for putting Eastern religions on a pedestal, not hardly, it's just this conversation has centered around Christianity with brief forays into disparaging other civilizations (ahem). And as Brenda pointed out, Christians are not the ones claiming to be a religion of peace so Islam got a bit of a swipe. I think most religions have gotten a bit of praise and damnation through this thread - equal opportunity and all that.

The basic thing here is, I think, Man - we are predators, we want and we take what we want. Civilization tries to cage the beast, but at heart- we are what we are.

Shall we discuss Evolution vs Creationism now? :)


These are ancient peoples we are discussing. People have evolved a little I'd hope.

As far as Christianity being a religion of peace, it is. However, Jesus told the Apostles before his crucifixion that The Gospel (which means the good news) be preached to all nations, starting at Jerusalem. That was his final command as well as love one another as I have loved you. How mankind took this preaching in eras past is not pretty, nor is it pretty that all the Apostles were killed and/or crucified as well. Peter being crucified upside down on a cross. Did the go forth and preach to all nations the good news mean for the Roman Catholic Church to use force and killing such as in the "crusades". I'm sure we'd all agree NOT! But it is how those ancient people chose to go about it all the while discounting the shall not kill commandment.

You also need to understand that ancient peoples under the Roman Catholic Church were mere peasants who never read the Bible; no commoner was allowed to read the scriptures until the Protestant Martin Luther changed that as the scriptures do not say the scriptures are only for the RCC's hierarchy nor any hierarchy for that matter. So how do we even know what the people during the crusades believed if they never read the Bible? Not to mention if the RCC said "fight" those peasants would have had no choice as if one was excommunicated from the RCC they could not get a job nor support their family. So either way, their life and survival was at stake. That is very much the same as Islam today as far as recruiting "fighters" for their crusade as in a lot of parts of the Middle East they are extremely poor making an average of $400 dollars a year income in some parts of the Middle East. Thus, Islam pays these poor people to fight and/or to train to fight and some of them feel they have no choice or their family will starve. Not to mention it is a requirement to serve in the military in some parts of the Middle East. It's a requirement not a choice as deserting Islam is seen as the same as being a traitor and punishable by death.

What was the topic again?

Oh yeah, men as women avatars, As you like it. Okay, SL is a game of reincarnation to some. It's a game of reincarnation because they have died in the game called Half Life and are now reincarnated as anything they want to be since they died in Half Life and are now reincarnated in SL as another gender or species altogether, as well as SL being a business and social networking platform where one can buy their own land and make SL whatever they want it to be within the TOS. I'm sure business SLifer's may have more restrictions on how the avatars are presented as it's their business they are presenting and since it's their land and if it's their business and the avatars are real life employees those rl avatar employees might more or less have guidelines as to how the avatars are presented. As for the social networking portion of SL, it can also be anything the land owner/owners want as long as within the TOS. As SL can be as you like it if you have the money to create what you want your SL to be.
_____________________
Won Best in Ice Cream
Oryx Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 8 Nov 2006
Posts: 7,663
12-25-2008 06:03
From: Avawyn Muircastle

At least be grateful for some western civilization because otherwise you might be a savage running around with a bone in your hair, a cannibal, ya know. Think about it.

Yeah because all of India and China don't count.
_____________________
Avawyn Muircastle
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 528
12-25-2008 06:05
From: Oryx Tempel
Yeah because all of India and China don't count.


The above was a joke. A joke not to be taken seriously.
_____________________
Won Best in Ice Cream
Oryx Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 8 Nov 2006
Posts: 7,663
12-25-2008 06:07
From: Avawyn Muircastle
Not to mention it is a requirement to serve in the military in some parts of the Middle East. It's a requirement not a choice as deserting Islam is seen as the same as being a traitor and punishable by death.

Just like it's a requirement to serve in the Israeli military and the French military by citizens of those countries?
_____________________
Oryx Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 8 Nov 2006
Posts: 7,663
12-25-2008 06:08
From: Avawyn Muircastle
The above was a joke. A joke not to be taken seriously.

With all of your other gobbledegook, who could tell?
_____________________
Avawyn Muircastle
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 528
12-25-2008 06:11
From: Oryx Tempel
Just like it's a requirement to serve in the Israeli military and the French military by citizens of those countries?


Yes those too.
_____________________
Won Best in Ice Cream
Cael Merryman
Brain in Neutral
Join date: 5 Dec 2007
Posts: 380
12-25-2008 07:20
From: Avawyn Muircastle
I never said the churches were not in communion such as talking or helping each other in times of need or crisis. American Protestants are also in communion with the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church during times of need/crisis or a coming together in an emergency. However, the Church of England's governing bodies which involve the Queen or a King or the Archbishop of Canterbury have no actual jurisdiction as a governing body in America.

...


This was in response to your comment that no Protestant group in the U.S. has any interest in what the Anglican Church in England is doing. And I was pointing out that the ELCA is part of a worldwide effort to have common communion (as in sacrament, not talking about stuff) with the Anglican Church. The ELCA has common communion with the Episcopalian Church in the U.S. There are five other church denominations in the U.S. that are actively committed to a common communion at the national level with the Episcopalians and also involved in that world wide effort. So, yes, many, many U.S. Protestants are concerned with what happens at the Anglican worldwide convenings, as this impacts the worldwide efforts and will eventually impact the U.S. national efforts. And the same efforts in Canada and Europe.

Normally it is the person responding that misquotes the person quoted or quotes them out of context. You tend to take yourself out of context whenever it is convenient.
Amaranthim Talon
Voyager, Seeker, Curious
Join date: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 12,032
12-25-2008 07:25
From: Pserendipity Daniels
Merry Christmas to you to Amaranthim and your extended family.

I am afraid I distinguish argument and quarrelling by the lack of the "logical" element, not the lack of an "emotional" one, so I would beg to disagree.

Pep (With no hope, as a result, of the argument being resolved)


My dear, logic and religion cannot really have much in common.
_____________________
"Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again. "
Robert A. Heinlein




http://talonfaire.blogspot.com/

Visit Talon Faire Main:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Misto%20Presto/216/21/155- Main Store

XStreets: http://tinyurl.com/6r7ayn
Amaranthim Talon
Voyager, Seeker, Curious
Join date: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 12,032
12-25-2008 07:27
Just curious- we are to take the Half-Life comments as jokes yes? Just want to be clear because a lot of your post seem to require disclaimers.
_____________________
"Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again. "
Robert A. Heinlein




http://talonfaire.blogspot.com/

Visit Talon Faire Main:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Misto%20Presto/216/21/155- Main Store

XStreets: http://tinyurl.com/6r7ayn
Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
12-25-2008 07:46
From: Amaranthim Talon
My dear, logic and religion cannot really have much in common.
QFT

Pep (It doesn't seem to prevent people from quarrelling about it though)
_____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
Mickey McLuhan
She of the SwissArmy Tail
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
12-25-2008 07:53
wow... this went from entertainingly ignorant to disgusting, vile and repugnant.

"you might be a savage running around with a bone in your hair, a cannibal, ya know. Think about it."

That's outrageously nasty and arrogant. I can't believe a right-thinking person would say that, which leads me to believe that this person is either mentally unbalanced or just plain winding us up.
_____________________

*0.0*

Where there's smoke, there isn't always fire. It might just be a particle display. ;-)
-Mari-

Cael Merryman
Brain in Neutral
Join date: 5 Dec 2007
Posts: 380
12-25-2008 07:58
From: Avawyn Muircastle
These are ancient peoples we are discussing. People have evolved a little I'd hope.

As far as Christianity being a religion of peace, it is. However, Jesus told the Apostles before his crucifixion that The Gospel (which means the good news) be preached to all nations, starting at Jerusalem. That was his final command as well as love one another as I have loved you. How mankind took this preaching in eras past is not pretty, nor is it pretty that all the Apostles were killed and/or crucified as well. Peter being crucified upside down on a cross. Did the go forth and preach to all nations the good news mean for the Roman Catholic Church to use force and killing such as in the "crusades". I'm sure we'd all agree NOT! But it is how those ancient people chose to go about it all the while discounting the shall not kill commandment.

...


Again, you are trying to have it both ways. On one hand, these are the same people you credit for civilizing the Celts. On the other hand, they were barbaric themselves and becoming more so (literally and figuratively). On the other other hand, you give them allowance to become more civilized on their own. But on the final hand, most of your arguments for Christianity are that the pagan religions were unable to do so, even though many of the concepts used by Indo-European pagans are common concepts and had supported great civilizations themselves (you know, as in Greece, the cradle of civilization, unless you prefer Ancient Egypt).

Evolution, if it has occurred in human civilization, is an attribute of the humans, not of one particular religion. While Protestantism may claim to provide some additional diversity that Darwin finds necessary for evolution to continue, the claim to some universal truth based on one set of values certainly does not. Arguably, for evolution to continue in human society, diversity should be welcomed in culture and religion, not declaimed. Killing off the pagans is not a plus for diversity. Even when you try it today.

Personally, I think it is a good idea for personal evolution as well. I'm not real comfortable with being comfortable. In my opinion, it isn't a bad idea to take your personal religious pendulum and put it off center and see if it returns to the same place. Maybe it will, maybe you will find yourself in an altogether new place. No reason to fear the attempt, though. Of course, anyone that sees religion as a pillar instead of a pendulum probably sees the concept as offensive.
Cael Merryman
Brain in Neutral
Join date: 5 Dec 2007
Posts: 380
12-25-2008 08:00
From: Pserendipity Daniels
I think it might be a better idea if everyone got back to cooking, eating or sleeping off their dinner, actually.

Pep (Nothing better to do than to quarrel senselessly about "religion" on Christmas Day? Bye!)


Huh? The religious holiday was back last Sunday!

Oh, sorry, you said Christmas, not Yule. Never mind. On and about with your celebrations...
Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
12-25-2008 08:21
From: Cael Merryman
Huh? The religious holiday was back last Sunday!

Oh, sorry, you said Christmas, not Yule. Never mind. On and about with your celebrations...
I'm always very careful about what I say here.

Pep (I can't do anything about the way people misread my words though)
_____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
Alisha Matova
Too Old; Do Not Want!
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 583
12-25-2008 08:23
Funny you mention evolution. Without checking my books I will suggest us hoomans haven't evolved much in the last 10000 years. Except our teeth and jaws are changing a bit in recent generations.

What has changed(or built up) is our collective knoledge and most recently, how easy it is to access.(internetz)

/me runs away again.
Cael Merryman
Brain in Neutral
Join date: 5 Dec 2007
Posts: 380
12-25-2008 08:30
From: Alisha Matova
Funny you mention evolution. Without checking my books I will suggest us hoomans haven't evolved much in the last 10000 years. Except our teeth and jaws are changing a bit in recent generations.

What has changed(or built up) is our collective knoledge and most recently, how easy it is to access.(internetz)

/me runs away again.


I think there is also a greater sense of others around the world, an awareness, that also civilizes us. The Internet certainly has had an impact. For the positive, we have many more opportunities to 'observe' those not like us and be aware it isn't just about us (actually, it is just about the family dog, but he's not particularly sensitive). On the other hand, it seems that it rachets up the fear factor. We get more about accidents and crimes and people are almost afraid to open their door - even though the accidents and crimes are happening in another state or country. So we have better communication and more exposure, but it seems as if the negatives, which certainly exist in enough quantity, are what are most often thrown in our faces. Still, if it gets even a bit more action that way, maybe it is worth it.

All that said, I'm still enough a tribalist to find myself scanning to see if the accident or incident was about people 'like me'. Not a good thing, but I know I do it...
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
12-25-2008 08:44
From: Pserendipity Daniels
Pep (Nothing better to do than to quarrel senselessly about "religion" on Christmas Day? Bye!)

Since Christmas started out as a religious holiday, but to many these days, it is not really celebrated as a religious hoiday, seems like a perfect day for discussing, arguing, and even quarreling about religion.
_____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil

Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it?
~Mark Twain~

Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on.
♥♥♥
Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22
.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell
Alisha Matova
Too Old; Do Not Want!
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 583
12-25-2008 08:46
I think your tribalist observation is human nature. Even the negative news can be pulled back to human nature also. As a negative storie will catch our attention before joes puppy blog. Sadly at least in the US the news network(and internetz) capitalize on the "shock factor" we oddly crave. Probably causing undue stress in the name of ratings/hits.

Sorry for the derail....must get ready for family social time. *waves*
LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
12-25-2008 08:46
From: Amaranthim Talon
My dear, logic and religion cannot really have much in common.
So true.
_____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil

Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it?
~Mark Twain~

Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on.
♥♥♥
Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22
.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell
Amaranthim Talon
Voyager, Seeker, Curious
Join date: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 12,032
12-25-2008 09:12
From: Mickey McLuhan
wow... this went from entertainingly ignorant to disgusting, vile and repugnant.

"you might be a savage running around with a bone in your hair, a cannibal, ya know. Think about it."

That's outrageously nasty and arrogant. I can't believe a right-thinking person would say that, which leads me to believe that this person is either mentally unbalanced or just plain winding us up.

Read on- it gets better.
_____________________
"Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again. "
Robert A. Heinlein




http://talonfaire.blogspot.com/

Visit Talon Faire Main:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Misto%20Presto/216/21/155- Main Store

XStreets: http://tinyurl.com/6r7ayn
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
12-25-2008 10:52
From: Avawyn Muircastle
I wonder what this schism in the making is regarding The Anglican Church in Africa?
I think it's clear from context.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
12-25-2008 10:55
From: Cael Merryman
This was in response to your comment that no Protestant group in the U.S. has any interest in what the Anglican Church in England is doing.
Whether the Church of England (or its offshoots) is a Protestant church or not is always a fine topic for a debate.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
12-25-2008 10:56
From: Mickey McLuhan
I can't believe a right-thinking person would say that,
I think it more likely in a right-thinking person than a left-thinking one.
_____________________
Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Derbor Torok
Lost soul
Join date: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,016
12-25-2008 12:55
From: Avawyn Muircastle
However, I don't understand why all the pointing fingers at Christians while discounting Islam, who are the current killers in Darfur? [/QUOTE


I am not particularly picking on Christians and I include Catholics, Mormons, Protestants, and any other group that sees Christ as the foundation of their faith - I just don't see them as 'different' than other organized religions around the world.

.d
1 ... 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51