Comments Out of Hand

You know what I find astonishing about this forum, the amount of 'Holier than thou' posters who like to regularly remind everybody that this forum isnt for General Discussion. They are actually having a general discussion whilst telling us its not for a general discussion, and a quick clicky on their other posts will reveal that they regularly indulge in General Discussion - except when it doesnt suit them.

I've watched over the past week or two about half a dozen posters who seem to think they are the Judge Dread of the SL Forum site suddenly launch into light hearted banter and quips because it suits them.

Personally I think its great and more of that please - but dont make the mistake of thinking you can just climb back onto your high horse again the following day and moan at some other poor bugger for doing what you did yesterday.

"He who is without sin may cast the first stone" I can't remember who said that but I think it may have been Arnold Schwarzenegger in Twins.

This new style free to insult forum reminds me of the 2+ years ago here when people did this oh too offen.

Don't take it personal!

Have fun!

Very very well said Sling........

u suck

I *choose* to agree with Colette .... but also you, Isabeau and I think everyone so far for that matter.

Jig, I'm sorry if my comment on your first name thread seemed snippy. It followed someone else's comment of the same kind and I thought the link to the duplicate would be handy. Strange yesterday the older thread seemed to overtake the newer one. Other than this, I've enjoyed the 'opinion' threads from you and others.

By the seeming absense of a res-mod and the Lindens implications that we are ok for the time being does this not mean we can make the forum what we want (TOS and CS permitting of course)?

My first online forum experience on Starship Titanic was of those who completed the game, hung around and whiled away the time with recreational threads, keeping themselves amused waiting for technicial enquiries. This kept the regulars interested, happy and more importantly .. there!

I widened my horizon last year at one point to investigate third party forums finding a mix of empty forums and bloodbaths so eagerly returned here.

If I tell someone they'd be better asking scripting questions over at the scripting forum, it's because a) I know bugger-all about scripting and b) they should be able to meet scripters there. If, on the other hand, they get quicker and full answers here I shall gladly refrain from doing it ... but the scripting forum is there for a reason, no?

I think the forum is largely a lot more tolerant than a year ago. The relationship threads for instance in Nov/Dec 06 were largely met by furores of "I don't do pixel sex" or "One man, one woman in the sight of God". It's easy to get misty eyed and nostalgic about the old days .. but it wasn't all roses.

Im sorry this happened Jig, I do hope you will return. I enjoyed your posts.


I don't think anyone is trying to be nasty on the forums when they try to direct someone to the appropriate place or something. As we have seen from this thread alone, many people just want the forums to stay. They want a place were people can ask questions - and get them answered.
Although I like them, and they keep people interested in the forums, sometimes it just seems that opinion threads and polls detract from the intent of RA and distract people from the questions from people needing help.
I am just as bad at posting on off topics and getting into general discussion on a derailed thread. I just think people need to focus on the help needed questions. They aren't going unanswered, but they are definitely getting noticeably fewer replies.

Anyway, It is probably all just the same as when Strife was the mod. I'm probably just noticing things because threads aren't being locked or moved when they derail etc.

LOL!

That wasn't rude. It was good-natured banter.

It does point to an area in which we should be careful.
Imagine if someone came in to defend me from an "insult". And then ......


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Nothing sucks seeds like a beakless budgie.

A whole lot more then just sensitive. Lately that's all you see, a few people in here constantly bitching about how there are no mods and that some people are mean or rude or whatever else their soft butts can't handle.

Nothing has changed. The forums remain the same the only thing that has changed are the ones constantly harping on this same subject day after day. It's very tiresome already. You don't want anyone saying anything to what you post, then don't post. The same people who complain are the ones who are constantly opening new threads with stupid topics like what's in your cabinet or have you ever done this or that.

It's always the same small group. You know who you are as does everyone else. Cut down on your opening dumb threads and you'll get less responses. This way you can sleep better at night.

Maybe these people want to be appointed Mods, I don't know but why else would they constantly whine about there being no mods here. Do they actually need someone looking over them? Over someone holding their hands? I thought everyone here is an adult and no hand holding is needed. I probably guessed wrong then.

Well said AlexLee.

The GD that goes on here and there is the mortar in building the community feel that many of the regulars here so obviously enjoy, and I bet there would be very many less regular contributors answering resident's questions if there was absolutely no GD permitted at all. Obviously a line has to be drawn somewhere, and I'll admit to not knowing exactly where that is, but it's certainly not in a place that strictly prohibits ALL GD. Common sense be thy guide!

Exactly.

And it's always the same little group who do this. But don't you dare say anything cause then you're an outsider, a malcontent, rude and everything else. Meanwhile, they hide behind their self righteousness as you're the one off base and not them.

You tell 'em!


Damm pussies..

Exactly


I do the same thing also. New people coming into the forums or not familiar with finding their way around here may post in this forum thinking that it is the most visible.

I have posted in wrong forums (here and at other sites) over the years and waited for a response...and waited...and waited...only to find out that I had posted in the wrong forum.

So, for someone to come out and direct a new person to the spot will they will most likely get their question answered is perfectly fine.

I agree!

The people with the knowledge about Second Life aren't going to come here just to answer questions. I want paying for that!. But I'm more than happy to help out inbetween annoying people.

It's quite selfish of Linden Lab to assume that people are gonna come to the forum just to answer the dull questions and take the strain of their tech support. What the hell was they thinking?

You get what you're given. Be grateful, LL!.

I feel the same as a few here:

Why can't we give contradictory opinions without being called "rude" and considered "horrible people"? Why should I be forced to be quiet when I think someone else's opinion is wrong and harmful to the community?

I guess I will be going away if the resmods come back. I can't stand the sanitized groups where opinions are forced to be sweetness and light or totally PC.

If people are never given straight answers, HONEST opinions, they never learn where they are wrong. It's a lot like the "never punish children" attitude that I see a lot in society today. Everything must be totally positive, so they never learn that bad behavior in the real world will result in bad treatment from others. So, when they DO encounter that inevitable bad treatment, they are shattered. I never believed in sheltering children, and I believe that goes more than double for adults.

People's opinions will differ. If I disagree with you, I should be able to say so. Insisting that there only be ONE opinion expressed is just....I don't have strong enough words that are allowed here.

Forcing only "nice" discussions is against all reality. Just my opinion.

Agreed; well put.

I haven't posted here very often so far, but I have been checking in on some of the threads for quite a while now. The questions and answers part of the forum is extremely helpful and I've learned a lot from you all. Thanks!

For me, reading other people's points of view in the general discussions, all seasoned with a bit of banter, are what makes the whole thing lively and interesting and worth coming back to regularly. It's not only factual answers that help us all to get the most out of SL, but also being able join in from our various timezones with interesting ongoing conversations about SL that we'd never have found inworld.

Also, I doubt you'd have a Cartel Group or a Hangout if this sense of community wasn't being cemented by the discussions here, and those are both invaluable to newbies and oldbies alike in many ways. I think you're a service to LL!

The worst trolling and flaming needs a bit of timely prevention, obviously, but I do hope a "strictly no discussion" rule or overly heavy handed modding isn't deemed necessary. I think that would spoil both the richness and usefulness of the forum for everyone. I'd miss it if it changed character or it wasn't here, for sure!

--
Aes

As someone who is very new to this forum (just a few weeks of actually looking and posting, inspite of my join date), I don't see anything wrong with it - apart from one guy using bad language in a couple of posts. I've had my own relatively popular forum for quite a few years, and I've used others too over the years, so I'm not new to forums at all.

I've seen mild insults and things like that - been on the wrong end of the ones I've seen - but nothing so bad that they merited even moderating - perhaps a quiet word to calm down, that's all.

From what I've gathered, there used to be a general discussion sub-forum but it was closed down, and this RA one is being used instead. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that, even if there's a sub-forum rule against it. There ought to be a place for general discussion.

I haven't been using this place long enough to get to know individual personalities, and I suspect that may be the OP's problem - disliking a few people who are quick to point to the rules.

Whatever the intention for RA, it *is* a general SL discussion place now, and it's working well as one.

I don't see any problems.

Okay.... wasn´t going to touch this one, because of the original post, but since it´s moved on to the purpose of this forum and I´m here anyway....

Here´s my 2c

The problem with this forum being used for general discussion is that it´s explicitely not meant for general discussion. The fact that we seem without moderator doesn´t change that. It just means that threads are started which would have been moved or locked more quickly in the past. It also means threads which have long outlined their usefulness and have moved into private discussion or flamefests remain alive longer than they might have.

Resident Answers is IMHO at risk of becoming a general debating forum. This could not only mean real questions drowing amidst opinions and rants and not receiving their due attention (as an example, I had to dig up an unanswered question from the bottom of page 2 last night).
It could also, and much more worryingly, put new residents off from posting in the first place.

I have in the past certainly enjoyed taking part in derailments of threads into Friday laughs and giggles. But in my experience this was happening only after a legitimate question was answered fully, and it was generally allowed to run its course.
It hasn´t happened much recently.
What has happened a lot more is general discussion and opinion threads being started and living on well past their sell-by-date, sometimes turning outright nasty.

It would be a great shame if Resident Answers failed to serve its real purpose. I´ve learned a lot here and I´ve enjoyed trying to help others.

Just my 2c, IMHO and YMMV of course
And apologies in advance for any typos, grammatical errors or opinions expressed.

Sally.

Threads never go on past their use-by date as long as people are using them.

Threads often move to general chat etc. after the original post has been dealt with. It's normal in forums.

In the few weeks that I've been using this forum, I haven't seen any "flame fests", as you put it.

If an unanswered thread made it to the bottom of page 2, it was because nobody had an answer until you saw it. Threads don't move down that quick.

From what I can see, this RA forum is performing both its intended job and general SL chat very well.

Hello Sally, your point of questions going unanswered is an important one. When this happens RA is certainly not serving its purpose. For instance, with my limited time for dipping in every now and then I spend so much time on the current 'Top Ten' I rarely get to look at page two! This clearly is doing harm.

Technically, GD is not allowed by the forum guidelines but human nature being what it is, we sidetrack, we misinterpret, we invent. Basically we are a forum, not a call centre. I hope what newcomers see here won't put them off posting questions, of any kind.

SecondLife is changing. The reasons for people to come into it are changing. I think the forum is simply changing to accommodate these.

Thanks Sling. I think I'll try to follow that for the time being, simply not reading/posting in General Discussion threads unless I have some special interest.

Just to round out Sally's post a bit, the folks who keep nudging about the General Discussion thing are doing so not because of their individual preferences, but out of their concern that RA may be disappeared by the Lindens if it wanders too far from its mission. If you look at the Forum Guidelines sticky at the top of RA, you see:
[/b]
People fear RA may be closed if it gets clogged with general chatting because the previous General Discussion forum was closed when it became too difficult to moderate. That's all -- people are just concerned that RA stay open.

Fwiw, I think that no matter who ends up moderating the forums, it should be possible to maintain some sprinkling of off-topic threads. If so, there would of course be some arbitrariness in deciding which threads got locked and which not. C'est la vie.

In any case, I think this bears repeating:

A lot of good points on both sides. Personally I agree with Phil. I think it fine as it is. If The providers won't make a space for General Discussions, which for the most part are at least somewhat connected to SL, then I'd like to see them here, they are often informative as well, insightful, entertaining, and yes sometimes annoying, but that's what happens when human's are involved. If it is determined that th eletter of the law is to be followed and this is to be the dull , dry place I think it would be, I will accept that. I ask the Lindens to make a decision: Leave us as we are, which is my preference, give us a General Forum, or have this place actively and consistently moderated, either by yourselves, or by the many capable residents who have volunteered to do so. And update the Goddamn software, please. But don't shut it down. It is a valuable asset to your product, the knowledge and experience here is invaluable, and will be lost if it is forced to scatter across the 3rd party landscape. And amongst all the bad business decisions you have made in the time I've been here, that would be among the most damaging.

QFT .. been dying to use that one!!

I get around the same satisfaction from attending this forum as I do logging my avatar in. I would pay to stay in RA as it is today.

qualification: but with moderation!

seen it. it's horrible and clique-y.

Nika, you and are probably one of the best people to be the standard bearers for this cause, no doubt You are an example to be held up to us all in your behavor here. I've read the archived GD threads. They were a bit messier than this place, no doubt, but even so, they aren't THAT bad. Now granted I have a thick skin, and thrive on sarcasm and irreverance, but in my opinion I do think closing them was a cop out on LL's part, to insulate them from criticism. And maybe it was necessary as Sl was still being nurtured. But as imperfect as it still may be, they have brought it mainstream, and they have to deal with those consequnces if they want to reap the rewards.

I still maintain that RA as it is evolving as a General SL forum, moderated only for extreme abuse and to move posts when needed is feasible. i think we have it in us as a community. We've both been to SLU. It is very lightly moderated, and populated by a lot of the same people who supposedly poisoned this place. It gets a little pissy, but no one gets hurt.

I voted for the JIRA mostly due to the way you wrote the proposal, because even at the worst case, a strict by the book RA is still too valuable a resource for LL to squander.