education and awareness

Nah it is Dans fault

The DOB your neighbor blog encouraged this sort of stuff.

hay stop yelling at me Grandma *cries* i just want my cookies - oatmeal pls srsly

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

*gasps for breath*

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaha

Trampolines broken
Ceiling has come down
The ache in my back tells me
Something's gone wrong
Rocking horse rocks
As the wallpaper peels
Curtain would like to know
What he has done



We're the salt of the earth
(I'll practice my fall for practice makes perfect)
And we know what to say
(Chained to the wall for maximum hold)
We're the salt of the earth
(The window's too far too far from my legs)
And we know our place
(Open the door and let out the cold)


You knew about this
With your head in your hands
All along
I was the puppet
I was the puppet !!!


~Echo and the Bunnymen

I will finish by saying it seems that the OP has gone from a well meaning, slightly ecentric, and misguided dreamer with a vision in the Quixotic sense to a self styled, matryr who believes her vision is the truth anyone who doesn't see it is blind, and wishes to impose it on those who do not wish it. Luckily, I don't believe what she is suggesting will ever be implemented by LL, but I wish her well in any event.

*One note on the Behavior Seminars. That has been tried many times, most notably in Germany in the 1930's.* I'm amazed it took this long for a Godwin.

I must have skipped over the HUGE posts in here due to sheer lack of time, and I plan on going back and read them soon...
Well, I would like to share an incident that happened to my GF and I (some of you know her, and I won't mention her name out of respect to her) We were invited to a club one evening...something to do with flames, inferno or fire house something I don’t remember the name of the club...anyway we got there...and some of you know how short her avi is, well she is very short, to put it mildly, but very much adult. we started dancing like we always do...and we noticed off to one corner of the dance floor there was a group of angels, mostly dark angels and a few demons...they were causing a commotion and using very abusive language (surly they were not the police in the club...at least I hope they weren’t) they noticed my date and began chanting pedophile, damn pedophile, child avi and the like. Well poor she did not realize they were talking about us until I pointed it out to her. She got very uncomfortable and was looking for the exit. So we politely left.

I have met a few child avis doing RP and they are quite good at it...I was actually convinced they were children! But in this instance my GF was being targeted because of her height. She is very short in RL as well as SL...

Just something that happened to her. I am not making any judgments one ay or the other about what happened except that we will not go back to that club no matter how many invites we get...thanks for listening.

Darling, I do understand what you are hoping to accomplish, and find the root cause to be noble, honest, and caring.

I agree that there are those using SL and the internet to commit horrid, unspeakable acts of betrayal on the innocent and the weak - believe me, if I could ever get my physical hands on some of those vermin, I'd likely do things that I'd regret later (they'd likely not be able to regret them later).

Here is where I disagree: no one (and I mean NO ONE) is qualified to make that judgement call in SL. Even the Lindens do not have the power, authority, nor omniscience to determine the actual motives behind anyone's use of Second Life.

Brenda said it best: even the best SL Police can end up causing harm through the simple use of AR's on innocent people. Whether that's the intention or not.

Now, I know there is nothing I can say that will stop anyone who is set upon "righting the wrongs" in SL (assuming a true civic mindedness)...I can only hope that my words will help highlight any possible delusions one has that they'll only be doing good.

Darling, I wish you all the best of luck in your quest - but please do expect resistance from most individuals, even the rational ones.

Sadly I could only read small parts of Darling's posts before my eyes crossed and my brain would start to scream.. The lack of paragraphs is maddening, and the rather endless self-righteous babble only makes it worse..

So far I have had three run-ins with the self styled "police" in game.. All three fit the same basic profile as the OP... "I know what is right, and I will do my best to force you to behave that way".



My favorite run in was with one that actually came on to my land and told me that my sex poses where obscene because they were lesbian poses.. And that my dress and lesbian lifestyle were not to be allowed.. Of course you understand this was expressed as “You stupid Dyke bitch! You cant have those poses out! And get dressed in something that covers your ass!” I laughed and told him to go do something impossible with himself, and to get off my land... To which I received a long if not very imaginative stream of obscenity's.. I just AR'd him.. With a lovely little chat log. He would not leave, so I ban/ejected him.. More shouted obscenities, so a second AR.. He was soon not to be found with a search so I assume he was banned.




I don't actually see a need for any sort of police in SL beyond what we have now.. To stop the griefing and other bad behavior all we need is to eliminate the un-verified accounts.. I don't mean the shame that is “Age Verification” either.. If every account had to provide TO LL, a verifiable real life identity then the majority of the really bad behavior would end.. And as to the moral police like you seem to be, well that is never acceptable in a virtual world.. Everything here is consensual, between adults.. And as such is only concerns their moral ideals.. NOT YOURS!!!! Anyone here not an adult committed a crime to get here in the first place.. Again real verifiable accounts would remove that most of that problem as well.




Sorry Miss Darling.. But there are no police in SL. You are just a self-righteous vigilante and nothing more.. If you really want to help make SL better, help the newbies get started, show them were to pick up some freebie clothing, etc.. Give them a note card with some of the really great places in SL. But put up your nightstick and notepad.




PS... If you actually want someone to read your posts, use paragraphs, punctuation, and at least try to spell out the words..

who said anything about giving anyone in second life abilties to suspend or ban??? or who wants this ability...not i...
but the child pimping and other child abuses,will be taken care of by outside policing, probably interpol...i doubt if any of us will find out for long time to come...after a case is judged and the perp found guilty...

our pd has nothing to do with these cases...enforcing law is not our job, our job is that of being called upon to help, and if reasoning cant be managed, then abuse report filed by the person abused and an officer...with trusted officers, Lindens will not need to sort the false reports which take up so much time.
as a matter of fact, it is quite opposite of vigalante...read what i wrote in post, rather than the responses...some of them are deliberately mean...

electing to enter game does not give griefers the right to grief...they are breaking the rules set, but they make sure they are in numbers far too many to keep up with...any assistance from citizens would give time for Lindens to do more of what they enjoy...

no matter what or where i am i life, if i see a child being abused and used, and helpless, all in same category, i would report it to whoever was in charge...

i see a plan here, which can multiply...we can make a difference...we can all be a part of a world safe from harms, honest money being made...for those who choose to do more than play...and fun for those who want to play...



QUOTE=Rails Bailey]Who in their right mind would give abilties to suspend or ban people in second life to so-called police groups, anti-griefer groups or anybody else for that matter.

You elect to enter second life, you elect, if your a premium account holder to pay for the privaledge of owning land and business.

There are elements in second life that are a pain, but no more so than what u find in real life.

Its Linden Labs platform, they are the ones who dispense justice, and rightly so.

Nobody forces you to log in to second life, you elect to do that.[/QUOTE]

If I met a RL police officer who couldn't write a report to save his/her life (or in this case post a forum message with proper grammar and formatting) I'd think they were a joke and got on the force via who they knew not their academic scores.

That said, I also have to say self appointed 'police' are adding to issues more then anything. My question to you what kind of training do you have or were given before you became part of the 'force'? What are the types of criteria? What is the acceptance rate? What skills or/and knowledge are required? How long was your cadet training and what did it involve? What was the qualifications of those that trained you? (Obviously communication writing wasn't part of the required classes)

Aside from the fact I agree with the 'your a bunch of self appointed wanna be's bordering on vilaganties' opinion I also take issue you are ARing people when you do not have all the facts. Any 'police' force thats 1/2 decent does leg work and investigates all information rather then take one small piece of data and jump all the way to a conclusion as you seemed to do.

This just proves to me you are little more then a group of people trying to make yourselves out to be more important then you are in SL. Simply by giving yourself titles and self appointed responsibilities.

You want to help SL? Here is my suggestion mind your own business (as in don't AR someone unless the violation is against you), go to a newbie/freebie place and offer to answer questions and show the n00bs a few places to get started. THAT is vastly more useful and helpful to SL (and new ppl) then you pretending to to 'police' with all bark and no bite.

My 2 coppers.

i think at age ten, thinking about someone in their fifties was like man that is old...i wonder if i will live that long...
i sense a sort of comical influence in this thread...
your way of saying something in a tone which can be understood, who knows, but u got my curiousity bug...

nice swan, to hear u r not gonna give me a hard time anymore, proving a point well taken now with you help, thanx...
gee whiz...hey does anyone ever hear this or say it?

yes we should all smile for one another, dont know about the nodding tho, as i was raised to enjoy the old folks, and i did...in fact i still do, i go to the old folks homes to hear stories of old...stories before my time...
i look perhaps twenty years younger than actual age...i take care of myself...
even with this illness, i do not look as aged as what is average....

but dont let numbers fool u...i am any age i choose to be...and i do not differentiate...

but i do enjoy my age, took me long time to get here, and if i was offered youth, i think i would prefer being where i am now...sort of free from direct responsibilities...

age for the ageless???does it go in a minus or a plus....lol...

no way would i ever be mean to you Grandma. if i wanted to be a naughty girl, i would tell you that youre a batty bitch and delusional and ask you to point out just where all the many real life children are being harmed in comparison to any other game or platform online.

i would take a moment to tell you how offended i am that you even linked real children with ageplay and suggest you log out of sl before you hurt yourself.

But, that would be bad manners to speak to the elderly like that.

*nods and smiles*

This type of trusted "officer" is already in SL. They are called "Linden Liasons". If you wish to help in this facet, please do go apply. Otherwise, your ARs are simply more reports LL must crawl through and determin if they are false or not.

Being in a group and calling yourselves a "police department" should in no way effect LL's outlook on your ARs. If it does, I will be filing a complaint with LL over that fact. No Resident, reguardless of their group, or any other factor within SL, should hold wieght over another Resident in the terms of ARs.

Until you are accepted as a Liason (or simular position sanctioned by LL), you are a vigilante. That is, you are taking upon yoruself to police the state without due sanction.



Good on you.

However, there are NO CHILDREN on the Main Grid. They are adults (or they have commited a crime, and their parents have as well).

Also, NO ONE can be "abused and used, and helpless" in SL. Mute, TP, or log out. There can be no "rape" in a setting where everything about your avatar is controlled by you. If you are not enjoying it, leave.

And no, we are not talking "griefer" attacks here. That is a whole different catagory which does NOT include the protecting of teh children.

When you bring the childred into this equation, you escalate up to RL law, not SL ToS/CS. Child abuse is against the law. That includes stalking children in a virtual environment (At least here in the USA it is agaisnt the law). So if you suspect child abuse, you need to report that to RL Law Enforcement of your appropriate county.

There is no such thing as a child in SL. There are people who act "child like" with the innocence and care free breath of life of a child (like Mari and her friends).

Inappropriate behaviour with a "child like" avatar is against the ToS/CS, and agasint the law in many countries. However, for you to report such, you had best have all your facts straight. A short avatar is not a child. A cute avatar is not a child. When in doubt, ask. If you can't do that, then mind your own darn buisness.

And the SHIFT key is on either side of the keyboard. Holding it down while typing a letter makes it a capital. They are used at the begining of SENTENCES. Also, a PERIOD is a single "." not "...".

~Jessy

and



I brought his up in today's governance meeting. Due to TOS I cannot directly quote Michael Linden on this, but he did make it clear that misrepresentation of authority is a TOS violation. This includes both RL and SL authority. This also includes statements intended to give the impression of RL or linden-authorized authority.

As such, your statements here might be, at best, skirting the edge of TOS.

Mari

Just today I saw a news story in the local paper about a teenager that killed themselves after they had found out that their "best friend" meet through, I believe something like facebook, had been conning them (I think the story mentioned conning, but the photo mentions "a fictitious online "friend" turned on her".

There are also story-lines in television shows that involves people using the internet to trick children into things. I have no idea if that is true or not, and just go back to that news story. I can't find the story but I see a link to a picture from the article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/01/09/PH2008010903789.html',650,850).

Sorry, that comment just got to me.

Those people had BIGGER mental issues then simply just being on SL and SL being 'dangerous'.

Look at the several news reports of people in Asia who go to a cyber cafe and, literally, play a MMORPG until they die. Last one I read a few months back about a guy sitting in the same chair and played a MMORPG for almost a week strait before he simply fell over dead.

Anyone on facebook, myspace, SL, WoW, UO or any other MMORPG or/and online community who kills themselves or others has issues far beyond being a member of a specific site festering long before they ever logged in.

Yes I agree. And I had heard about people literally playing themselves to death. It was just the way the comment was worded that got to me. Implying that the Internet is completely safe and if you think otherwise you should just not bother logging in.

And the person I mentioned in my post was not in SL, I don't think. I mentioned them because there was some connection made between something on the Internet and their death.

Anything and everything are only as safe as we can make them be and as safe as they are used or misused. Anything can potentially be dangerous.

And SL itself is addictive. I've seen in threads on here people mentioning being inside SL almost non-stop for seemingly dangerous lengths of time.

is ok, but i was referring to SL, not the web as a whole, sometimes you dont see your errors until you hit enter, or they are pointed out. as Strauss said though(read it after i posted) those people had issues already.

not everything on tv or in a television show is "real".

If I was to take a guess, if these people did not have a business reason to be on so long I would say a. they are addicted either to SL or/and the internet as a whole; b. they are not happy with their RL thus try to reinvent themselves in SL to make their self esteem or their general 'life' seem 'better'; c. They prob need some level of counciling in RL.

To Darling's previous snipe at me, NO I do NOT have an attention disorder, and furthermore I .........I.......I.....I see a butterfly.........oooh a butterfly! *runs off to chase it*

I've been reading this thread with mixed feelings - but then, there are mixed messages all through it.

I think a lot of people have a Pavlovian, junkyard-dog response to the phrase "SL Police," and perhaps that accounts for a lot of the meanness we see in it. The response is understandable - self-styled "police" have had a long history of variously being obnoxious, on power trips, bullying, griefing, acting as self-appointed busybodies, or trying to impose their views on others by falsely claiming authority, or attempting petty extortion. For every one labelled "police" who has sincerely tried to help, there have been what seems like a dozen SL would be far better off without.

So, it is unfortunate that this lady elected to join a group calling itself "police." She appears to be a well-meaning old lady whose heart is in the right place and for whom the word police has a very different meaning from what SL's many bad cops have created for it here. She is thinking with her heart, not with her head. This is a fault, since it often leads people to foolish opinions, but frankly, hardly deserves the attacks and mockery some people have rained down on her. Far worse are the ones who are busy "feeling" with their heads and being clever who apparently have no heart at all.

Frankly, some of the people who have posted here about her have shown absolutely no class.

The most trenchant criticism is the admonition that it is important to make sure you have your facts straight before you file an AR. Yes! Surely there are better ways to point out to a basically well-meaning person that falsely accusing the innocent is a danger to be avoided. The second most trenchant is that she seems a bit mixed up about ageplay - and what has come to be called sexual ageplay here in SL. That, too, needs straightening out, but frankly, she is not the only one. Can people who think themselves intelligent perhaps find ways to convey a clearer picture to a possibly confused but still well-meaning person? It's not like we haven't all had a looong time to think about that issue.

Finally, let's not forget that there are an excess of malevolent people in SL, as in RL, and that in SL the equivalent of law enforcement is woefully short-handed and needs all the (legitimate) help it can get. I have an alt in a legitimate anti-griefer group that does NOT call itself "police" for the reasons given above, and there are other such groups around, of varying degrees of effectiveness. Ours has received thanks from individuals in the Linden Response Team for helping them keep up with concerted sim-crashing and other attacks on SL, and from a number of property owners who appreciate the advice and support we have been able to give them. Residents need to be much more proactive in making SL inhospitable to the malicious and disruptive. That said, such action does need to be clean, legit, as peaceable as feasible, and reserved only for cases where people seriously are, objectively, harmful to SL. NOT enforcement of general "morals." Leave that to the Deity of your persuasion. But keeping the peace isn't going to be handled by some outside force alone - in large part it will be up to us Residents.
.

I am on here a lot and yes I do use it to make my RL seem better. I have a disease that has disabled me. I can spend my letting my brain rot in front of the TV, I can fall asleep reading a book, or I can spend my time here talking and socializing with other real people. If that makes me in need of counseling, well then so be it.

*nods and smiles*...
im me in world, i will give to u a book which is a true story, and not in modern times, perhaps the thirties or forties.....but, it is all over the web, and in newspapers and magazines, on television, on video...
it is a horror...
as far as comparing children being harmed, to other games...i find no comparison...i am not looking for comparison... i love this game, and i dont like that the psychotic and criminal element are ruining it for others.
as police officer in world, we are limited, we do not have the qualifications to investigate...
but, there may be a time, when it is realized, there are not enough officers to win this battle against crimes...
so there may be changes then.
for now, it is 'keeping the peace', training, educational benefits, and we have no intentions of playing role play of weapons...i feel there are places set aside for this...
inworld, when i am asked my age, i first say, i am ageless...i am whatever age i care to be...but i am not shy about telling my age...took me long time to get here...lol...
strange thing is, i feel younger than i did when i was in my late 30's...which was a time for me, to realize how quickly the years pass by...
i can protect my children, but there are parents who some even work double shifts to make ends meet...and these children need to be found and protected.
kids will be kids, trying out different aspects, and we know they will sneak into game...the younger the kid is, seems the more they understand how to get anywhere on web which stirs their curiosity...
there must be solutions, which are fair to all...i will keep thinking, till perhaps someone has these solutions...

btw...i am glad u have manners, i find them useful to keep me in line...most times...lol

*giggle*

in our group, we are taught to make reports.

like i said in previous posts, there is reasoning why i do not use proper form in forums...

i write, when i write, sometimes it is in parts, sometimes it does not relate to one subject...i may have several articles which i work on as something is brought to my attention.

i apologize for those of you who do not like this, but i use many things, so at first glance, i recall why i did so...and can find things easier.

capitolization, is one tag, in writing, it is easy to run out of keyed * words...there are only so many combinations, and then it would be chaotic.
like *(& could have meaning, but to remember the meaning, is a hill to climb, which is not necessary. i save the hills for when i need to prepare for the mountain...

i passed my pd exam at 94%...
we are well organized, yet there is still so much to do...

we will not pop in someones space without invitation...using weapons, throwing power trips...this is not our way, nor our cause...we are here volunteer, to help.

to find out the answers to your questions, i think it would be best for u to join the recruit group, temporary, if this is what u want...and see for yourself.

in flesh world, i had pd training...old days tho, didnt even have pc's then, was only radio, and lots of paper work...
old school was good, but i like the innovations, which have been progressive...

some of us do work at pd's, and fire departments...and other areas of serving the public...

and no, i do not jump to conclusion, i do investigate, we are taught this in our training...for some of us, it comes naturally...where did u get the idea that *i was taking a small part of data, and jumping to conclusions* this has not happened...i have never jumped to conclusion, only solve issues so far, working things out between those involved. also, we take our notecards of info, and present it to our ranking officers, for help in deciding what can be done...

i have not filed an AR yet...i am in no hurry, i have always used methods in which to think out something which is not right...to find the wrong...and yes, some ppl do play the manipulation game...i take this in consideration as well...

we are not wannabe's...we are serving...at the request of those we serve. we are serious, we love this game, and we can see with this child molestation, child pimping, and all the rest of it, how it can effect our world...little by little our freedoms taken away, at the command of criminals...

we are not inclusive, we are not vigilante's, we are citizens who feel duty is a gift to give one another...we do not hide what we do, we have no shame, as we do our best, as things present themselves.
we all have a police car, with flashing lights...but, we walk our beat, after teleporting to the land which asks for help...we do not charge for our services...


titles dont matter to me much, but it is a pride for some, to have accomplished moving up in ranks...
we see the needs, and we respond to help in the best way there is for now...we have grown to 80+ members, and assigned officers in charge of each division...
self appointed??? no, we see a job, we do it...we are asked for our services, other than helping new folks, our patrol is requested...
titles identify us with others...perhaps now, it is a hard title to wear, with all the negative remarks said in this forum...u can see this is obvious...
but there will come a day, when this title is no longer negative due to forms of role playing and the scoundrels who enjoy being mean and rude...
i wear my title, my tag, with pride, for i do know my intentions and the intentions of some of the ranking officers...
by our example, the bad will get bored...perhaps decide to do something worthwhile...
my ego is satisfactory...i have accomplished quite a bit in my years, and i intend to accomplish more...
before i joined this pd, in fact, not too long after they first released pc's for the public...well not released...lol...sold...
but i came across a case in which a child was found dead, sexually molested...
at that point in time, i made the decision to work as an officer, to catch these creeps...i have been ill, and due to toxins, if u havent read yet, i have cognitive skill disabilities...after the liver transplant, i will go to school to specialize in these cases...i am at the short end of making pc work for me...so will find a partner, which we can match our skills to do an excellent job.
the small piece of data, which say this proof makes u think badly of me, of us...
i still want to see where u figured this...
mind my own business? why do u think there are so many criminals? if something does not concern u, than it is not important for anyone...
???
this is kind of closed minded, dont u think? u are the one who has jumped to conclusions...forming your opinion, adding it to the rest of the griefer attacks, verbal attacks, on me...and those like me, who care, who care not only for what is in our world, but care for the world in general...i am born in u.s.a.--but i am a citizen of the world.
why would i want to make myself feel important in sl? i am important, a part of the puzzle of the world...and every little bit of help,care and concern, is important...
if u could only see the looks on the faces of my own chidren, and children's childen, and children's children's children...u would see this remark as nul and void...
i sing them a song, they sit a listen to me, with so much love on thier faces, no one can tell me i am not important...or that i need to feel important...
in fact, i am rather a quiet and private person...i could not refuse my title, for it was earned, and to those who work hard in our training, it would be taking away their means of telling me, u did it...
do u realize how many false reports are filed? for Linden's to have to go through?
in our position, we are able to witness and file ar's as truth unwinds, looking from each perspective...if it cannot be settled inworld, then it is time for LL to step in...meanwhile, i prefer the abilties made for us, like voice...
we are not dogs, we do not bark and bite...we do help newbees, i always have, even before pd time...i have sheltered, given gifts, showed shortcuts, helped them find their particular interest...and i know that other's also do same...
i find places of enjoyments to share, such as bedrock, and the places u can ride objects...or fly, and try to find their interest...
i keep some objects i don't see in game now, so new ppl can have something they dont see others have...
i also receive lots of gifts, the secret santa kind...and other gifts for the asking of how it works, or me saying oh i would love that, when it is not for sale, it turns up in my inventory, or is sent quickly...
i started this subject, to give awareness that there is a problem,
i didnt mention all the good things...well two years full, is a book in itself...there are lots of good and kind ppl, and i give my oath, to help in whichever way i can.
plz dont misjudge me...u know the old saying...'united we stand, divided we fall...
we must stand together, to create order, or it will be taken from us...
the freedom...this world allows, this is what we stand to lose...