Bloomin Campers Again

Which might be funny if Marx weren't buried in London.



Then you knew how ridiculous your earlier comment was when you wrote it. *shrug*



When did I say any of this stuff?

I said I wanted to have the traffic metric removed because it was never intended to be a paid advertising outlet.

Perhaps it was intended as a subsidy by your rationale, But it was co-opted for business interests. Therefore its not needed since they already have parallel avenues intended for them. I'm the one who is arguing it being removed.

I find it rather funny you take handouts on one hand and decry subsidies on the other.

I've been quiet through most of this thread and watched the fruitlessness of the arguments going on here. While I've wondered why anyone has wasted their time arguing with Karen and her pompous attitude, I've been willing to give Phil the benefit of the doubt all along.

I just assumed, Phil, that some of your responses were because you were overly aggravated from some of the attacks. I've seen shades of what I thought your true colors were all along but have been able to overlook them until now. Thanks for making it clear who, and what, you really are.

Make no mistake about *why* traffic exists. It was *not* put there to be gamed to increase your search ranking. It was put there to reward people for creating fun/interesting/good places to visit.

Voting stations were the first (I believe) attempt at this. This system was gamed so it was replaced by dwell/traffic. And now this system is being gamed.

If anyone thinks that camping/traffic bots were ever an intended/desired part of the system, they are, as a point of *fact*, wrong.


WHY DWELL/TRAFFIC WAS CREATED:
----------------------------------------

"Traffic was put in place as a way of gauging interest in a build or location."

Second Life History Wiki
http://secondlife.wikia.com/wiki/Traffic

LINDEN QUOTE ON WHY DWELL/TRAFFIC WAS CREATED:
-------------------------------------------------------------

"Linden introduced "traffic" or "dwell" as a way to reward residents who create popular locations."

09-24-2004, 06:53 PM
Haney Linden
Src: Search for posts by Haney Linden with TRAFFIC and DWELL as search terms.

VOTING STATIONS GAMED, TALK OF ADDING DWELL:
(I.E., THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE GAMING THE SYSTEM)
-----------------------------------------------------------

Thread title: "Rewarding Hot Spots (a.k.a. killing the voting stations)"
07-02-2003, 07:14 PM
Hunter Linden
/20/ef/3527/1.html#post22343

VOTING STATIONS GAMED, TALK OF ADDING DWELL:
(I.E., THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE GAMING THE SYSTEM)
-----------------------------------------------------------

06-30-2006, 11:34 AM
Kelly Linden
/139/f4/117436/1.html#post1119160

LINDEN CLUELESSNESS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF DWELL GAMING:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Trust me, it won’t come down to trapping other residents in cages just to increase their dwell time on your property."

05-07-2003, 06:21 PM
Hunter Linden
/120/6f/2209/3.html#post14704


--Hugsy

You know...I love SL! And one of the main reasons why is because i can debate issues with all kinds of people from all different countries and cultures with different beliefs, opinions and experiences. I learn so much from how people respond and react to the statements of others. So if this if frustrating anyone...sit back, take a deep breath and just be thankful we can even HAVE this discussion as a global community and in this amazing environment.

And to whoever said those candles didnt create lag...come see me and ill put them back out...see if you can turn around then LOL....I may not know the technical reasons why, but i sure know when i can turn around or not LOL. BTW...i used the region tools with the script buttons that show their impact...started with the highest ones first and went down the list. So it was in fact an objective measure of something that lead me to that dang penis buried in the floor. LOLLL

And could someone please let me know what marx had to do with my earlier comments? I live in the world of how to more than the theoretical so that one went wayyyy over my head....LOOL

Thanks to you all for making my day great! Keep up the good discussion....but remember...play nice or you all have to go home and we CLOSE the playground. smile

hmm so my statement is "totally" 100% unrealistic?You didn't answer the question, please explain the principles of the traffic system it's purpose in beingIf you weren't cheating more people would be defending you and you could proudly put a big sign up announcing to your customers that you use Bots to increase your traffic numbers It's cheating, explain the way you use bots to your customers and ask what they thinkI am starting my ownbusiness and my inner satisfaction is something you may never feel, and I don't do it to be a hero, I do it for fun.

Yep this is like saying crime is ok if no one sees it happen.......

Yep hit tha nail on the head here, can't ignore bots when they are on your front doorstep every 30 minutes.
And yes people here can change things, things have been changed by residents before and if you can't accept the desired changes of the majority, bad luck.

Campings not the issue, it's Botting..................

Well It is a moral issue.
If it were normal business practice they'd be teaching TrafficBotting to Noobs at NCI.
Hope you enjoy the little arms race you are in, when all your competition do the same on a bigger scale.
I really have tried to be nice on this issue that burns me up, I typed a lot worse replies than defraud and cheat but erased them, I understand you are only one of many doing this and you are wearing a lot of heat that should be spread amonst them too, but the others don't have the guts you do.
I am not trying to "do you in", just trying to see if I can steer you back to a better path, I woulsdhappily shop at your store if you didn't use bots, I don't care if you are making $40k a day or $40L a day its a moral issue. You make good product and could probably make plenty without TrafficBots regardless. I look for bots before purchasing and it's getting more frustrating everyday to find good stuff and not buy it, maybe one day I'll just give in and leave my alts logged in 24/7 at my store too if ot seems Bot Life is the real name of the game.
Seeing you won't explain to us the purpose and theory behind a traffic system because you realise you are not using it the way it is intended and hence cheating.

"WHY DWELL/TRAFFIC WAS CREATED:
----------------------------------------
"Traffic was put in place as a way of gauging interest in a build or location."
Second Life History Wiki
http://secondlife.wikia.com/wiki/Traffic"

Hmm so the IRS actually physically attacked you with the intent to shoot you and dump your body in the ocean, so you took them to court and also arranged a hit on the IRS agent responsible?

We don't make you come in here to read this, hide under your pillow all you like

You asked me a number of questions, but I said a while back that I won't get into discussing the topic again, so I'll refrain from answering them. Besides, you still haven't answered mine, so you don't merit my answers to yours. I wish you well with your 'fun' business, but please don't worry about my inner satisfaction - I have plenty of it - and I get an extra warm and fuzzy feeling all the way to the bank. SL is a terrific place, isn't it

Phil, Phil, Phil.. walk away man.

There isn't any point arguing with someone who seriously uses the crass phrase "my inner satisfaction is something you may never feel" without even the good grace to imply some irony..

My old Dad gave me some advice when I was young and headstrong and which has stood me in good stead ever since.

"Don't argue with a fool, because from a distance the spectators can't tell who is who."

Unless of course you're just a little bored and looking for diversion, then please by all means continue

I wasn't talking about holding it down over ME.

I think that's the problem with you and some of the others in this thread. You have a bee in your bonnet about it, which prevents you from seeing it rationally - 'it is wrong because I really really really don't like it' - end of story. It makes you turn to insults and such when you're not being agreed with, even though it's been pointed out more than once (not by me) that it's ok with LL. It's a normal human trait to resort to insults etc. It's not a nice side of we humans, but we all have it in us.

I'm not fired up about it like you are. I don't mind about camping and alts one way or the other. I don't need them to have a decent RL livelihood from SL. They add to it, but not having them won't kill it. But I'm sure not going to remove them and lose a bit money just because a few people here are so biased against them. Tens of thousands of people use SL, so what do a few dissenting voices here matter? They are not representative of the SL population, so why should anyone do as they want?

You said something about putting up a sign to tell customers that the alts are there, but one customer posted in this thread, thanking me for doing something to get her to the store in the first place. Nothing will satisfy you, because you are so biased - it burns you up.

You talk at length about what traffic was originally intended for, but you choose to ignore that LL supports camping to improve the traffic numbers (rankings). What sense is there in that? If everything is only used for its original purpose, nobody would be using Viagra for erections. That particular aspect is a side effect of its original purpose - it wasn't designed for that.

You seem to think that it's a moral issue. Why? I have to assume that it's simply because you don't like it - and you're a good guy, as you haven't given a reason why it's immoral. You even threw in something from the Bible, as though anyone who uses alts to gain more has lost his/her soul. That was really scraping.

The truth is that LL approves of camping to improve the traffic figures. You said that camping is ok, but where does that leave the arguments of the other dissenters. I didn't see you defending camping ealier in the thread when people were vehemently against it. And, in all fairness, where does it leave your argument about traffic alts.

LOL

I know you're right, Merchant. From before Christmas, up to the wee small hours of this morning, I was away from home and it was awkward being in SL to do things, so I spent time here in the forum. I shouldn't have posted again after I said I wouldn't, but it did give me some interest. Now that I'm back, I think I'll stop.

I'll get back to business and I bid you all a fond farewell

Ok, well, Marx came up earlier in the thread (who knows why--something in favor of the third cardinal sin, I suspect), and Ordinal just offered part of his vast library of dialectical philosophy as a reward for spotting the methodological flaw in concluding that avatars weren't responsible for lag by looking for lag when there weren't any avatars around. Hence my nonsense about Marxism being everywhere I looked when there's no Soviet Union to distract me.

So if you or your tenants would like some zero-sim-lag, one-prim particle-flame candles, let me know and I'll send you one in-world, full-perm. I honestly have no idea what the candles could have been doing to cause lag, unless they were cycling through a bunch of different textures instead of just animating one... but that would be incredibly silly, so... no idea.

I can sympathize with the laggy penis problem. Any penis problem, actually.

Also, "top scripts" really doesn't usually reveal much about what causes the experience of sim lag. That's because script execution itself doesn't lag anything but other script execution. That's *not* to say that scripts can't cause lag--they certainly can, because they can do all kinds of laggy stuff besides just run themselves. But you can have thousands of scripts in a sim, all counting in infinite tight loops--they'll count really really slowly, and all the other scripts will be really slow, too, but avatars will walk around lag-free. And yet, just a handful of scripts that look perfectly innocuous in the list of top scripts can be lagging the sim to death, perhaps by doing relatively infrequent but high-complexity physics, or occasionally rezzing objects with gazillions of twisted tori. So "top scripts" is a great tool for figuring out why scripts may be executing slowly in a sim, but it's only great good luck if that's also the reason folks *feel* that the sim is laggy. For that, snooping around at physics and texture loading (and sometimes dynamic object rezzing) is often necessary, guided by the details of sim statistics, beacons, and debug consoles.

Just to add to the messiness of identifying lag culprits: many of them only arise when there are avatars around. Texture downloading is a prime example of this. When there are lots of avatars, there's some combinatorics, too, with everybody having to mutually rez and download each others' AOs-worth of animations, and then do physics on each other as they clomp about.

OK folks, Im really sorry now. I'm a little disappointed at someone saying they didnt like the mud slinging and wasn't going to post any more, at around page 10 or something, yet is still posting and slinging their own mud now.

What I will say, and bear with me, I do have trouble explaining things properly, is that SL IS going downhill and needs to pull its socks up and go through things with a fine tooth comb in order to get things up to scratch again, with EVERYTHING.

That a certain poster seems to thing anyone else's opinion is wrong just because they don't agree with them. Which is a shame cos its a discussion with everyone's varying views, it just so happens that about 95% of those views are against camping, or to be more accurate, bots of some description that aren't even live campers.

That these forums are a way to interact seeing as there are few places to do that in SL now

That the forums are a way to actually do something in SL, some threads ARE noticed by LL and notes taken on board, after all, any business would be mad not to see what's going on around it and see where they can improve things, change things, keep the majority of customers happy etc.


That I still have some cheesecake if anyone wants any, but its cherry

Titania xx

And really good cheesecake too. Thanks Titania!

Hey! Any time I have cookies and chocolate cake too lol

Titania xx

My lawyer had to take an entire small arms qualification course just to take my case!

(Smiley implied)

Any chance you can send him our way to deal with any griefers lol

Titania xx

True, but if I zip into a place and see a load of campers, I'm outta there because I have no desire to put up with the lag they cause. If you want my patronage, get rid of the campers.

Phil, camping is deception, plain and simple. It's a way of bumping up your traffic in order to make your parcel APPEAR popular whether it is or not. However, it's not against ToS, so you're free to do it, but you will just have to put up with our indignation and disapproval. If you do it on your own (whole) sim, fine. If you do it on a sim you share with others, further shame on you.

But it's illegal, and just because we don't like it doesn't mean you can't do it. Go ahead, it's a free SL. However, it's our perfectly valid perogative to turn away regardless of what other amenities your land may have. In these matters, the customer is always right. Yes, you probably get more customers due to camping.

If places weren't ranked by traffic, there would be very little camping, and it wouldn't be a problem, and it wouldn't be deceitful.

I'm of the mindset that a few campers are fine, if they aren't hidden alts/bots of the owner. By hidden, I mean, stuck in skyboxes, off in the lake, otherwise stowed out of normal avatar view. Also, if it's otherwise empty, I'm gone. I want to see other people browsing and such.

One of my favorite places had camping, with the payouts types, that did things within the place's theme. It was great, because they weren't just using camping to raise traffic, they were 'hiring' people who had nothing better to do anyways to add a touch of realism to the surroundings. I figured it was no worse than hiring staff.. except probably cheaper than staff would have been

What is unbelievable is that you can't see the obvious, that creating false traffic numbers from one business only cause other business to copy that strategy of deceit. Extrapolating on that, all business in SL would need to have as many bots as possible to compete. The proliferation of bots is ridiculous and inherently a lie.