temp prim rezzers zapped?

because SL is really funky about "too many prims".. and if a land owner tries to rez too many (non-temp) prims for a given parcel, non-landowners prims will be returned from that parcel to make room for them.

Let's take the example of a car store. If you have a vendor on the wall, you can see photos of the car.. but to get a feel for the quality, you kind of need to "see it". While most cars have the upshot of being 30 prims or less.. similar items often aren't. Rezzing out an item like this for only 60 seconds.. seems perfectly reasonable.

Why not just allocate space for the car on the land? What if the shop sells 400 different cars? What if some noob gets "click happy" and decides to rez all 400 at once. While it's surely possible to add specialized "kill commands" into the rezzer(s).. the project starts becomming more and more complicated. Now we have to worry about a popular store, with people constantly dereszzing what the other person was looking at, by rezzing another. A multi-story, or large store, might need several "rezzing groups".. and suddenly the number of prims you need to keep free "just in case" becomes problematic.

Because those rezzers, are rezzing with the land owner's name as owner.. and it sucks to get half your mall renter's vendors autoreturned because some 3-day noob wanted to push all the buttons.

Yes, you could script all of this behaviour, and not only add rez-load when people push the buttons, but a lot of scripting load...

Or you could just use temp.

As long as you have to "press to rez once" I don't see a problem with using temp. That way, the system is only adding to server load when it's being actively used.. and it's no more stressful on the sim than rezzing it non-temp... and the cleanup and safety features don't have to add to script load.

While it's not the original, intended use of temp.. because it is in fact a TEMPORARY use of the mechanism, I think it's reasonable.

it's those "re-rez again in 60 seconds, and again and again and again" things that are the real problem.

Prefabs might be a bit of a stretch,.. but then 60 seconds isn't really enough time to check out a house. if it's rezzing a car, or an avatar or something.. I dunno, I think it's an edge case, but I'd call it reasonable if it was getting reasonably low use.

the "temp" flag isn't the problem.. it's the RE-rezzing that's the problem.

Not sure I agree with this, if people are rezzing prefabs that can be anything like 100 or more prims then why should they not be using their parcel allocation that they paid for instead of using the shared resource for the whole sim? A couple of hundred prims is a big chunk of those 500 reserved for temp prims.
As stated in a previous post those prefabs can be done with non-temp prims and work exactly the same way.

snip

However, I don't think that temp rezzing demo houses is a good idea, because it would often need much more than a minute for people to look around it, think about it, etc. Rezzing permanent houses to order, with a system for the house to be deleted either after an amount of time, or when the next house is ordered is much better, imo.

Winter, after having looked in to this further if the system is now as described in this JIRA entry then I am happy to withdraw my objections to temp rezz prefab vendors:

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1166

It seems that each parcel gets its own allocation according to the following formula:

temp_prim_limit = prim_limit - current_prim_count + min( 0.5 * current_prim_count + 400, 1000)

That Jira is contains classic freeloader v. environmentalist exchanges.
Whether temp rezzers, search-gaming or land-cutting there is a certain type of person who sees the ability to use a feature as a right to use that feature for *any* purpose as long as it's not specifically banned by TOS. 'If it's not banned by TOS, then it's not wrong to do it' goes the line.
There's even a 'some Linden said that it wasn't against TOS' in there.

I particularly grinned at:
"I have read the ToS and the community standards, and I strongly disagree with your interpretation of them. I don't believe that a court of law would agree with you either. Specifically, a resident using a documented feature of the software could not be construed as breaking clause (viii) that you quoted. Particularly when advice has been sought and reassurance offered that the activity was not illegal (that is not a side issue in my opinion). It would also be very hard to argue that residents using temp prims within the limits specified in the documentation was intentionally slowing server performance or intentionally inhibiting another residents ability to enjoy SL. That is not their intention at all. In fact, I think that a court of law would probably be more likely to support the argument that inciting Abuse Reports against residents when there was no clear breach of the ToS was a form of harassment."

I doubt very much that temp prims were enabled in order to temp rezz very large multi-prim multi-texture objects like houses - or incredibly detailed jewellery.
I don't think that there is any chance in hell that they were enabled to achieve the effect of permanence.
At the same time, neighbours in a sim might not particularly notice the efect of rezzing such objects at longish intervals.

If anyone is using temp rezzers and causes problems for neighbours, then they should not get bent out of shape if LL return them.

I doubt very much that temp prims were enabled in order to temp rezz very large multi-prim multi-texture objects like houses - or incredibly detailed jewellery.
I don't think that there is any chance in hell that they were enabled to achieve the effect of permanence.
At the same time, neighbours in a sim might not particularly notice the efect of rezzing such objects at longish intervals.

If anyone is using temp rezzers and causes problems for neighbours, then they should not get bent out of shape if LL return them.

Well, I suppose I will say it for the heck of it. It is really entirely irrelevant what you think or believe until they define it. That may sound snotty, but I do not intend it to be.

....

......
As with landcutting and adfarms, gambling, inworld banks and openspace sims, the Lindens simply need to define controls in a manner where people can grasp the intent without speculating.

Well, I suppose I will say it for the heck of it. It is really entirely irrelevant what you think or believe until they define it.

....The clue is in the fact that they've existed for a very long time, LL has known about them for a very long time, and LL has done/said nothing against them unless they negatively impact other users....

The clue is in the fact that they (Ad Farms)'ve existed for a very long time, LL has known about them for a very long time, and LL has done/said nothing against them .... until recently.......even when it was blindingly obvious for years that they negatively impact(ed) other users....

To put that another way:
Some people are incapable of restraint, common sense and regard for others.
Strict definitive laws have to be enacted to try and curtail their behaviour.
When they find a way around those laws, the laws have to be amended/extended.

Roads have speed limits because some people are incapable of exercising restraint and common sense.
Some people interpret a speed limit as the speed at which they are entitled to drive, regardless of conditions on a particular stretch of road.

For those people. there needs to be a law involving, speed, weather conditions, oil/debris on road, time of day, traffic volume, .....

While it would sure be nice if we had better tools to measure for ourselves what we're doing to sim performance and other impacts, we don't. And it's hardly surprising that LL cannot supply hard-and-fast rules about how much of any one thing we can do without breaking the world. It's a complex system, and even if such rules were practically knowable, they'd change with each new release and every time the network routing changes.

So they *have* defined it as well as it can be defined: if any one thing measurably hurts performance, it's a candidate for removal.

I know from experience that one can rez (temp or otherwise) a few hundred phantom, unscripted prims outside of anyone's viewing range, and the sim performance will not even show a blip. Do the same thing in view of a dozen agents, and there will be sharp lag spikes in Network time. Add a few scripts to the rezzed objects, make them non-phantom, and do it every minute, and the sim will not get out of dilation between rezzings.

What would really, really suck is if LL were to pay attention to the "don't give us features without forcing limits" idea. We could as well go back to IRC.

Before you get your land, you agree to pay a certain amount for it, prim limit & all...everybody would love extra prims.

We already have a lot of freedom compared to game designers when it comes to the huge amount of polygons we can rez & use on a daily basis...that's the prime cause of lag in a way. The only reason Playstation 3 games for example, don't lag like SL is the creative team has a set limit on the amount of resources every model can use.

I wish prim limits could be higher, but oh well...LL doesn't hide the prim limits, you read the deal & agreed to pay for a set amount. If you get caught circumventing the prim limit..."oops". It's LL's perogative if they want to enforce stated limits.

Well, if this was strictly true, there would be no temp prim allocations per sim/parcel, no reason to include the function to opensource developers, and no reason to have temp defined as an available user object type, and then there would be no temp rezzers whatever nor a need to police them.

Absolutely agree it's the Lindens prerogative, but since they allow all of the above and they are not shutting down the places that display rezzable builds, what prim limit are you circumventing in theory ?

I agree to a point, but computer operating systems are just as complex and they are configured to generate warning messages on a very low level down to machine code. When a Linden comes and "zaps" temp rezzers, surely they are looking at a performance indicator and not being arbitraryin measuring the result of the zapped rezzers.

Well, if this was strictly true, there would be no temp prim allocations per sim/parcel, no reason to include the function to opensource developers, and no reason to have temp defined as an available user object type, and then there would be no temp rezzers whatever nor a need to police them.

Absolutely agree it's the Lindens prerogative, but since they allow all of the above and they are not shutting down the places that display rezzable builds, what prim limit are you circumventing in theory ?

I don't see it as snotty.
I see it as a cop-out. It's used by freeloaders to justify their activity.

That line discounts commonsense. It feeds straight into "Unless the TOS forbids it, then it's OK". That line wants LL to brainstorm every possible misuse of a feature in advance and expressly forbid it in TOS.

They were mine and ok LL should now return every single temp rezzer outlaw their creation and ban their use for everyone... no debate...

Temp is great for bullets, and honestly, it's awesome for vehicles, because as long as you're sitting on a temp prim, it won't auto-delete. So rez your awesome prim horse, set it temp, and hop on. Now you can ride your horse even into parcels that would otherwise be "full".

Not sure I agree with this, if people are rezzing prefabs that can be anything like 100 or more prims then why should they not be using their parcel allocation that they paid for instead of using the shared resource for the whole sim? A couple of hundred prims is a big chunk of those 500 reserved for temp prims.